I am on my way out the door, so just quickly, Gormans and Carrolls are the same family, and that is Madalynne's maden name. My wife's driving licence, though we are married for longer than she would want me to tell you, says Gilmore-Otway, her federal ID , her Barr association card says Gilmore, her banking cards say Gilmore, and no, she is not a Traveller. Toogood is Johnney's name and his father's name. I am working on a case involving Vlax Roma, and the father and son have different names, though it is his birth father and he has no other father, as tribal people have a more complex naming tradition than do we, there are articles about this, if you are interested, off the top of my head there is an excellent one in the Internation Journal of Comaritive Law, which if you in fact want to go to the library to read, I will post the site. It is actually a great addition, most of the Articals are about Roma and it is a real page turner. You may also like the piece my my coleague and (I'd say teliphone friend) Prof. Weyrauch, on the subject of people's right to cultural secrets, it is part of one of his submissions under the title the Ethics of Disclosing Secrets. Cheers Larry