The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #52446   Message #804702
Posted By: Ireland
16-Oct-02 - 03:20 PM
Thread Name: BS: Northern Ireland Mess
Subject: RE: BS: Northern Ireland Mess
Jimmy, the IRA ceasefire has been breached it is a well accepted fact,and all the rhetoric will not change that. So we get into the whataboutery, if you read my posts you will find I have no time for any terrorist.

You make wild accusations about the special branch, why would anyone want to go back to pre GFA and live under the constant threat of terrorism. Police having to keep up their personal security routines etc, no one wants to live like that again. SF/IRA need a reason for their existence what better way than to make wild claims and put it across they are here to protect their community. Why have people been thrown out off Ireland and cannot come back for fear of their life, who enforces that the IRA. Indefensible and be we get whataboutery yes the loyalist crowd do it too, and that does not make it right. It just enforces that terrorists are parasites on their communities.

Who shot the person in Belfast (2000) when a dispute arose within the republican circles, the IRA are blamed while you say they were on ceasefire.

The common factor here is the use of terrorism, these people are preying on their own community and have done so since 1969, what has happened to the people who were shot as informers and ask who was the person in command of the IRA at that time. Did they have the legal right to take a mother from her children murder her and dispose of her body with impunity.

Terrorists take their lead from the fools who support them and with your posting above I draw the conclusion that you and Mick support the taking away and murdering of mothers, sons, daughters and fathers, I certainly do not that is why I call all terrorists scum.

We do not know how many arms were put beyond use, the IRA could destroy all the lee enfields they have but that is no use if they bring in armalites through the back door. And yes the other crowd is at it too still does not make it right. Many unionists did respond well to the destroying of weapons but that's a positive point best left out to make a spurious argument.

The Castlereagh break in was not as trivial as you suggest, one paper today reports that £30 million was spent rehousing the police officers whose details were on that list. So it was seen as a considerable threat and acted upon. £30 million that could have been used elsewhere.

You are glossing over the fact that Adams and his ilk were in the IRA and any intelligence gathered from the devices that led to saving lives is well worth it. Or are you suggesting Adams knows nothing considering his illustrious past as a commander in Belfast. The lives saved would be from both communities. And you complain about that what is your problem in trying to save lives, you seem happy enough with the IRA gathering intelligence to take lives and terrorise people.

Remember Omagh carried out by a break away group of the IRA and to break away you have to be part of it in the first place. Would you complain if the bugging devices led to foiling that example of republicans protecting their community?

The British do not want a total capitulation of the IRA or they would not have entered into the GFA and ignored the complaints of unionist about the IRA. What is being asked of SF/IRA is for them to stick to the spirit of the agreement and having the details of all the members of the prison service is not going to be used as a Christmas card list now is it.

I take your point on handing over weapons and so does the British government I suspect, but only on the condition that preparations are not made for them to be used. The gathering of intelligence suggest that the weapons will be used if only as a method to threaten or terrorise people. No one needs weapons who are committed to a democratic process, no one needs to know the details of the security forces if they are committed to a democratic process, to have such items suggests they are not.

Your prediction on the actions of the moderate catholic in my opinion is way off, many are prepared to let democracy work and a surprise to me is some do not want a united Ireland they would loose too much. Others do not want to be under the influence of the Catholic Church and have turned away from that and republican cause. I really get my eyes opened when I talk to university students who think for themselves. But to counter that there are the dyed in the wool republicans who have the rhetoric that others reject.

N.I. is not straight forward those who you think would support whatever because of their religion or back ground do not always adhere to the stereo type. Some students from the republic do not want any thing to do with N.I. too much hassle, some think they do not know when they are well off, with respect to many social issues. So the threat that all Catholics will vote SF is an empty one.

Lets not forget that SF is not wanted in any form in the republic when they have a private army, but you seem to ignore that fact, it proves that SF/IRA are not as popular as they think among right thinking people.

You will not get me to defend any terrorist should they be from the orange or the green, they and their supporters are doing nothing but keeping Ireland in turmoil.

The police needs support from both communities, catholic members policing their areas and protestant their areas is not the way to go,they need to be accepted by all, it will be one step closer to getting to a normal society.

The most important message I get from many SF members is their refusal to say the war is over, which make their retaining arms a worry. The fact that SF does not ask people to come forward to support the police with information is another concern are they afraid of reprisals or seen as a threat from their former comrades in arms. But saying all that Adams has my respect he is trying and I do recognise that he is walking a tight rope between keeping the radicals happy and trying to keep the unionists happy too.

Attack the orange order, loyalist, unionists all you want I have no time for them, what I do have time for is those who look at the situation honestly and do not get involved in the old rhetoric that is employed to keep the mess in N.I. going.