Mick

Why do you insist on taking things personally when they are not intended that way?

Rose.

I do not see that you are having any trouble at all in understanding my views. The first para of your post is exactly what I am trying to say.

As to what my idea of the 'gay community' is, I suppose the 'gay scene' would be more the concept I have trouble with................Whatever you wish to call it, the main point is that it excludes participation from anyone who is not gay.

I understand the point made earlier, that from your point of view society does exclude you. I don't understand that given that you have felt that the effects of that exclusion, that you should feel that those same problems will not occur when it is you that is (consciously)doing the excluding. How can you think that anything positive be created from this position?

I don't see you as ONLY gay, like Don, I probably wouldn't see you as gay at all. Your sexual preferences are none of my business, no more than my sexual preferences are any of yours.

It is your preoccupation with this one issue that you have presented to me as a difference between us, when there will be many. As many differences as there would be in any collection of gay people.

I am not going to respond as to my views on 'hate crimes'. I have said nothing here for you to present that to me, as if I would support such things. If you do a forum search on my name you will hopefully see evidence for my views.

Rose said

"I think there's something about this issue that personally threatens you in some way. I'm not calling you the "resident homophobe". I'm reading your comments and I question why you are unsupportive of gay people gathering together. I don't understand why you are uncomfortable with gay people supporting each other."

Why must there be a hidden agenda if someone questions the wisdom of your direction? Is there only 'the party line'? I am not unsupportive of gay people supporting each other, but why cannot all of us support gay people? It is this issue of exclusion that you do not seem to see cuts both ways.

And also

"You accuse a vague someone of "attracting young people to the gay community" when they would be perfectly welcome in a larger community."

I have had personal experience of a young person struggling with their identity, being presented with and readily accepting a label and a life-style, that later in life she came to realise did not fit her at all. I came to wonder in this instance, who's needs were being satisfied by this offer? Yes, in this case it was a recruiting drive. This offer and subsequent rejections were made by this person to a number of 'lost souls' over a period of time.

As to the answer to my question, despite what you answered, it was to No 2 that the rest of your post was supporting. If you are serious about obtaining acceptance in the long term, maybe you have to be prepared to feel a littleless safe, in the short term?

You appear to want to be seen forever as a special case that needs supporting by the very people you continue to blame for all of your problems and want to exclude from your community. Yes there are people who would do you harm, but they are in an increasing minority. The majority of the people and (generally) the laws are on your side. I have just come to question if simple acceptance by society is actually what you want?

That is not the view through rose coloured spectacles, but the way it is. If you think my view is critical, then so be it, but believe it or not, it is meant to be helpful. I AM on your side, please reserve your sarcasm and scorn for those who clearly are not.

Please don't take issue with me just because I don't agree with everthing you hold dear. Let us try to look at where we do dissagree and learn from that. HELP