The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #54952 Message #852750
Posted By: Joe Offer
23-Dec-02 - 04:38 PM
Thread Name: The Lord's Prayer wording
Subject: RE: The Lord's Prayer wording
Remember that the New Testament was written in Greek, and there is no such thing as an "exact" translation from one language to another. When I studied New Testament Greek, I used the Revised Standard Version as a "dog," and it helped me quite a bit. The Jerusalem Bible and the Catholic "New American Bible" are also very good modern translations, but I'll stick with my Revised Standard Version (well, now I use the New Revised Standard Version).
The Gideons generally distribute the King James or "Authorized Version" of 1611. As English literature, the King James Version is probably far superior to any other version ever published - but a good translation demands far more than simple literary value. The 20th century translations use original texts and archaeological knowledge that are far more accurate than the Greek and Hebrew texts available to the translators of the 17th century.
The Gospel of Luke contains a version of the Lord's Prayer, but the version in general use is taken from the Gospel of Matthew (Matthew 6:9-13) - part of the Sermon on the Mount (one of five long sermons in Matthew).
Although it comes from Scripture, the translation of the Lord's Prayer follows rules that are different from those used for translation of other passages. People use the Lord's Prayer apart from scripture study - both in religious services and in private prayer. A prayer is memorized, and people treasure memorized prayers for a lifetime, and pass them from one generation to the next. People rightfully expect that they won't have to memorize a new version of the Lord's Prayer every time a new Bible translation comes into use. As a result, churches accept a standardized translation, and they're reluctant to make changes when a new translation proves to be more accurate. For prayers, the meter and sound of the words are often almost as important as the meaning - and permanence of the wording is also far more important than it is for the rest of the Bible.
I grew up in the Catholic Church, and learned "forgive us our trespasses" in the 1950's (even though the Catholic "Confraternity Version" Bible of the time said "forgive us our debts" - and the current Catholic "New American Bible" also uses "debts"). Looks like most of the commonly-used Bibles use "forgive us our debts," but we Catholics keep on saying "trespasses." I think I prefer the meter of the Catholic version, and I don't think there's much difference in meaning.
As for the final phrase, "for Thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory," it's generally thought that this phrase was added by some pious scribe, quite some time after the original Gospel was written. In a gesture toward unity, the Roman Catholics have used the phrase in liturgy since the 1970's - although not tied directly to the Lord's Prayer. The phrase is called a doxology, a prayer of praise that was appended to the Lord's Prayer in liturgical services, especially in the eastern half of the Roman Empire. This doxology is quite early, perhaps as far back as the second century - but not originally part of the Lord's Prayer.
As for debts and trespasses, it doeesn't seem to make a lot of difference. It's interesting to note, though, that the English versions of the Lord's Prayer are substantially the same as they were in the 16th Century. Maybe earlier - I couldn't find information on earlier versions. Except for the debt/trespass question, both versions are almost exactly what's in the King James Bible of 1611 (debts) and the 1559 Book of Common Prayer (trespasses) - both from the Church of England.
Click here for a history of English translations of the Lord's Prayer.