Let me head this one off just a bit. Clarence and I have never gotten along well but we have tried (both of us) to keep it more than just "civil." Karen has always been in the middle, but she was in the middle as a kid when Clarence always had a fight going on with another member of the family. Yes, Karen and I fought about it but we both came out on the plus end. Her Mom just got worse.   The harder I tried, the worse she got.

AND, I am not nor would ever turn our kids against her. She has done that herself in Michael's case and poor Tris just tries so hard and she has no understanding of him at all. Autism has many forms and though we have tried to explain Tris to her, she never seems to get it.

Clarence had an equally disastrous trip with another daughter a few months ago and the middle daughter who lives close to her (and fed and boarded her for two years) sets very precise limits on what and when Clarence can interact with her family. None of the son-in-laws get along with her at all. Karolyn, the middle, told us before the trip not to go and just to come to her house instead so the kids could all play together. Probably the most fun our kids had on the trip was the one night we spent in Atlanta with the their cousins. After we lefther house, her kids were mad at her and asked why she made us leave and our kids wanted to know why we had to leave. Airline reservations mean very little to kids!

In some ways it was a good trip....we swam in the ocean on Christmas Eve, we fed the gulls, went to a great zoo, visited a tremendous bird sanctuary.......but the relations between us were always tense and we'd have had a far better time without her.

Spaw