I also still support AA, as a paltry, problematic, foot in the door, until there's something better. I don't believe it's what has stood in the way of progress on social issues, don't see how it's possible to think that. Many people seem to put a lot more stock in merit testing than I do, maybe that's part of the difference of views. I expect admissions to be unfair, erroneous, somewhat arbitrary, and AA is really just a bet-hedge, a way we'd prefer not to err. One of the biggest problems with AA is that despite it being a reasonable measure to take, it confounds and confuses and riles up people because there is just something they want to believe, in spite of everything, about academic testing. That God makes those damn tests.

   Nicole C I was wrong, I do feel sorry for you, with your moral sense, your ethics, and now your fine sense of what's ironic. If you think you can compare a corrective handicap of college admissions with the legacy of slavery you're out of your pea-picking head somehow. Obviously you aren't F-ing stupid. That leaves F-ing nuts, and full of shit.

I don't believe in violence but morally we distinguish counter-active violence against existing violence real and/or threatened. Well discrimination against blacks is still both threatened and real. But try a narrow measure to counteract the violence of the demonstrable discrimination specifically against blacks, and watch the white people get all nut-up with their big ideals of equality. What a bunch of stupid white people we have here, all acting like it's a choice on the table between AA or some big equality thing that's bound to happen. It's sad, sad. I'm disappointed and really sorry to hear all this.

   Even sadder is that when you test this discrimination, then ask the employers about it, it's not bigotry, just inertia. The whole thing makes people edgy and uncomfortable, afraid of trouble, and it's just easier not to hire blacks, not worry about it. There are always other people who deserve it too. Not like there was any discrimination, no bigotry, no guilt, nothing wrong. They believe in this big equality thing too. Just not our problem, not our fault, no need to do anything, lift a finger, cross the street. It's sad.

Doug R if my logic is hard to follow it's probably because I'm arguing with what you aren't saying. Follow that? If you believe nobody should be discriminated against it's nice to follow up with some concern about when people actually are. Not just pipe up like you reliably do when they are white. For that, you support scrapping AA. About the rest you don't feel the need to speak a word of practical concern. AA is such a measly step to take, in such a grey area. I'm all for trading it for anything better.

   Nicole C has some ideas that sound pretty good, I'm sure if she'd send them to Bush he'll do them. Or if not, scrapping AA will surely ring in a new era of peace, harmony, and justice for all. Us white people are pretty sure of that.

   As a high school dropout who graduated summa cum laude, I'm not sure about this blind academic criteria. I got F's in high school, A's in college. They want to consider other things than past performance and tests. But what do they know?