I usually read the whole thread through before responding, but I stumbled upon a few manipulators of the issues and decided not to read their dogmatic "arguments" and the folks who responded when they felt their hot buttons being pushed. You have to ignore ideologues who feel empowered when they can blast away all they want, saying things calculated to offend, then hit the "submit message" button. No courage required for that. Face-to-face, someone would have managed to stem their flow of vitreol or would have left the room. So here you just have to step around these piles of manure on the thread and move on.

Beccy, you live in a nation that wears great big blinders regarding women's rights around the world. Many cultures and religions oppress females in many parts of the world, sexually and economically. Look at parts of Africa--it's all the rage to try to cure AIDS by having sex with a virgin. They're taking this to such extremes that it isn't just young teens or girls, but toddlers and baby girls that are being raped. These females have ABSOLUTELY no choice. These are a variety of religions involved with this myth that has taken hold.

Visit here or here for more on the topic.

To bring it closer to home, look at the flack the Southern Baptist Convention created for themselves a few years ago. (The Texas variety is even worse than some of the rest!) The convention passed an ammendment to their church's policies recently. Women should submit graciously to their husbands. I know, from reading the documents, that this as worded should imply the statement means "head of household," but from some of the Bubbas I've met and heard of around here, I know darned well that these guys interpret it to mean submit to sex. And the male church leaders know it also.

And abortion is nobody's business except that between the woman, her partner, and her doctor.

SRS