Bill - regarding "the horse may learn to sing", have you seen this little gem that someone (I think Beccy) posted on another thread a while back? HE HE HE ... click on the horses to have some fun! And sure, what's the details of that old joke? Humour is SO divine ...

And regarding " No...there's no law agin' word games, or agin' folks getting together and doing it as a group, or in electing a leader of their group, or paying him a salary.....etc.....but I sure hate to see them come out of their meetings and presume to inform ME that the results of their discussions are binding on ME...but, that is basically what is happening a lot, and that a major reason why I enter these discussions."

I couldn't agree more. Whenever any person or group tries to influence me (unless I've invited them to do so), much less manipulate or control me by insisting that 'This is right and everything else is wrong', something inside me starts quietly chuckling (maybe it's that divine 'inner voice'!). Big warning lights start going off in my mind's eye, and I don't walk but RUN in the opposite direction.

Unfortunately that IS the track record of most religious institutions to date. Which is why I don't have much use for things 'religious'. I much prefer the spiritual, which in my understanding is PERSONAL, not social.

I've read that many ancient esoteric 'mystery schools' hung a sign over their door that read "KNOW THYSELF". That is, imo the only way to find what is truly 'spiritual' in the myriad of traditions/beliefs that claim to be 'spiritual' out there today. Joseph Campbell's work is also an excellent guide, IMO.

And regarding rituals, ceremonies and other institutionalized methods of "knowing God", I really like this old Buddhist saying:

"I chop wood. I carry water. This is the way to enlightenment."

daylia