Since typing these out, from Howells and Jowell, I am absolutely sure that I know how to spell the words 'absolutely sure'. I am not sure if I am absolutely sure of anything else..........

Tessa Jowell talking earlier that week, on BBC Radio 3's Music Matters. Broadcast 09 February 2003.

You've had some fairly bad publicity recently over the Licensing Bill, which there is a petition up, with 67,000 signatures on it, from people who believe that, this is the licensing of public entertainment section of the Bill, who believe that really amateur music making, or casual music making is being squeezed out, this is a related question of course to the widening of access, do you accept that?.

TJ The campaign run by the Musician's Union has err been extraordinarily successful in attributing consequences that err will not transpire as a matter of fact.

But that's alright isn't it to run a campaign?

TK Of course it is, and we think it is a campaign of misinformation, they think it is campaign that will raise a tremendous amount of popular hostility to this legislation.

Were are absolutely determined that this promotes music, live music in pubs and other you know restaurants and bars, you know the whole range of places in which music now takes place. Will not limit it, and err I'm prepared to look very carefully at all the fine print to make sure that it is made easier, not more difficult.

The licenses will be cheaper, it will be easier to apply for a licence. So many of the bureaucratic obstacles that people face at the moment will change under the new legislation. But I think that what everybody has got to understand is that, there is absolutely no question that Tessa Jowell and Kim Howells got in to the office one morning and said, I know what we've got to do today. We are basically going to shut down music in pubs and clubs up and down the country. It is absolute nonsense.

I mean the thing about music is that it is such a fluid, casual kind of activity….

TK Of course…..

That you're legislating against it, in effect?

TJ No I don't think that's the case. And what I certainly don't want to see is a situation where six people are sitting around in a pub and they start singing together or somebody has guitar and they start singing and they are stopped because they haven't got a licence, I mean that would be patently ridiculous.

Its wonderful when music is made in that kind of spontaneous way, and yes I'm going to make absolutely sure, as is Kim Howells that the legislation supports, rather than undermines.

Do you foresee altering or there being any alterations in this?

TJ Well, we are at the beginning err, or we are half way through scrutiny in the Lords and then the Bill will come to the Commons around about Easter. And err certainly we will take the debate very seriously indeed and the whole purpose of Paliamentary democracy is to improve legislation. If it can be improved and if the evidence is that err a particular amendment will make it better. But everybody should be absolutely clear that our objective is to ensure that live music in pubs, flourishes.