I worte to Dominic Tambling about recreational dancing ( my wife does Scottish Country Dancing). And some more stuff.....about the carols

His statements DT............my reply to him afterwards DE. The point about "for fun" is I hope a good one...........

DT I see no reason why any of the dancing activities that your wife undertakes on Monday nights should be licensable under the Bill.

DE I did say..........that sometimes "...they practice to live music." So...........you are saying that if a live band in a building not licensed for public entertainment is playing - if that playing is not for entertainment purposes is not licensable?.........Surely the band is playing for the entertainment of the dancers?

DT Entertainment will only be regulated entertainment if it "takes place in the presence of an audience and is provided for the purpose, or for purposes which include the purpose, of entertaining that audience".

DT Dancing for fun, rehearsal of practicing for displays do not fall within this - unless of course they are done in front of an audience with the purpose of entertaining them.

DE I have isolated and highlighted this because I find it interesting. If dancing for fun albeit to a live band is not regulated that is marvellous news. It isn't what the bill says - and it is certainly not what anyone has so far understood. Great.

You will clearly agree that if dancing for fun is not licensable then clearly singing for fun cannot be licensable. It is equally clearly true that playing music for fun is not licensable either. And surely any combination of these viz. dancing and singing; singing and playing; and playing and dancing IF DONE FOR FUN are not licensable either.

That is fantastic and really good news. Please.....I reckon I can halve the mail you are getting.

Be kind enough to get the Minister to say again..........in the bill this time of course..............something along the lines of what he said on the Mike Harding Show last July - that a group of people in a pub let's say, who are playing and singing and dancing for fun - no money changing hands - no attempt to entertain an audience.............it is not unusual you know...........that those premises will not need a PEL.. I can get large numbers of people off your back immediately. Misicians, singers. licensed trade, the lot!!

And that is a promise.

That is if you are sure.

DT There is no definition of spontaneous within the Bill or elsewhere for the purposes of the Bill. The point is that what most people understand to be spontaneous singing or dancing would not count as the provision of regulated entertainment under the Bill (because it would not satisfy the conditions in Schedule 1) and would not, therefore, require a licence.

DT In reference to your more specific point - it is hard to see how a regular event could be regarded as spontaneous. Those performing/attending must presumably have known that it would happen and turned up accordingly. That is certainly not what I understand to be spontaneity.

That means that virtually any traditional event - the carols in Sheffield, the Haxey Hood Game, Padstow May Day, Allendale Bonfire etc .etc...........will all need a licence. None are spontaneous, all take place at specific times and places, most involve a bar/alcohol at some time. And whilst the sight and sounds of some of them may not be to some people's personal taste they do clearly entertain people.

I hope that it is clear who is saying what to whom.........(it is in colour in the orginal)

Dave