Ireland-we've been over this many, many times. Just because the terrorists are bad people doesn't mean that we can torture suspects so that hopefully, if we ren't being lied to, we might get intel which could lead to the apprehension of more suspected terrorists. You can't claim that the responsibility for government-sanctioned torture belongs to the terrorists one hopes to catch through said torture. Claiming that because the methods of torture currently admitted to by the government aren't as bad as the methods other people are known to use doesn't change the fact that it's still our government torturing suspects.