CarolC - What I mean by that is if folks continue to rehash the problem they will not get to the solution. People change from their strengths - period - I don't think they even need to understand them to change them. And I do this for a living and am quite successful at it.

And yes on your last paragraph - it's when it bleeds over to people who are laying their lives on the line that I think it is highly innapropriate. I've been on both sides of that Patriotism so believe I have a clue as to what that means. I think my inference about leaving is much more akin to taking a look at the other side. Are they able to do as we do? Unless one has experienced tyranny I believe it is just a concept that does not equate to reality - and without reality we can only speculate. Speculative does not have enough substance to have meaning for those not familiar with tyranny and the means sometimes necessary to overcome it.

Bottom line my dear - I have no quarel with you - I consider you a friend with a deep conscience who is striving to effect change in the crazy world we live in.

Steve

PS Hug Jack for me - it is nice to know that the two of you continue to do well - :-)