I sometimes participate in a small issues board of 27 or so people, mostly liberal, but some moderates and a couple of right-wingers. I feel very strongly that this war is unjust and immoral and for all the reasons so many here have stated so eloquently -- from the trumped up reasons we are in there, to the cost of war in both lives and actual damage to our futures -- for decades to come. To the ruination of our reputations, to what it will set as a precedent, to (well you all -- the antiwar people, that is -- know the reasons).

But there is one younger (22) person on that board who is very gungho war, and his only argument is that it will save lives. And he dwells constantly on the tortures and murders by Saddam's regime, as well as the suffering caused by our sanctions. I and others have argued what we feel to be true (and what we are seeing now) -- that it will only compound the suffering. I cry whenever I see these pictures of Iraqi children running from the bombs -- some on stretchers with their faces bloodied (and -- you never hear emotion about that from the prowar side -- only more about supporting the troops -- sometimes used as a taunt against us antiwar people.

My question is, what do I tell them when they fling back the tortures and murders under Saddam and say we are doing this to save more lives? (Certainly that wasn't why Bush went in, nor was it even the rationale he gave among his changing rationales, until the last minute).

But this young, excitable kid threw some figures at me tonight: an estimate from somewhere about 300,000 people that would have died directly or indirectly at the hands of Saddam in the next ten years.

I've been reading articles lately that confirm my feelings that no matter how bad things were under Saddam, the Iraqis don't want our liberation with bombs. Nor our "democracy." Maybe it's the devil you know... But also, talking to the few Iraqis I've met and hearing about the suffering that we inflicted on them in the Gulf War, convinces me. One educated older woman (I shared a cab ride with her one day), could only speak about how hard it was for her family with no food, water or hospitalization after that war. She never spoke about torture and murders.

Also, my feeling has been that the tortures and murders went on if you spoke out against the government -- but weren't something of everyday life for most people. I could be very wrong.

And I have to say, it's not as tangible for me as as seeing them run in horror from our bombs. I just shake my head.

I have to believe there was a peaceable way to solve it, but the truth is, I was for not going in at all. We cannot get rid of every brutal dictator in the world. And again, why Saddam, and why now?

Still, what do I answer to sarcastic comments that I am hardhearted and being blind to torture and rape?

I just know that this war is horribly, horribly wrong.