A Spaw, Morrison. Right, I overlooked that. In fact, in the past month or two, about three or four messages addressed him in meeting (messages as we refer to ministry - no ministers, so from our varrious Friends). A few folks spoke of not understanding how this fits into our view of the non-violence. But, those who know his family often speak of the horrible violence he did to his daughter and wife by this act. Frankly, I find violence against one's self in this case even, to be an act of violence against those who love you. The Quaker view of making the peaceable kingdom through non violence, is that if one acts on that of God in the other, they will respond in kind. My song about (or the origional story of...) Thomas Lurting speaks to this... in a violent century he overcame pirates and turned them to Friends by interacting with the God in them. Another instance is the Peace feather story, when the Abinaki's did not kill us, as they intended after we, silently made peace. Cheers Larry