Gee whiz, Mary, now I feel guilty to think you'd actually slog your way through one of my long posts! *BG*

Tweed,

Hmmm. Humanness. Humans hate, lie, cheat, envy and decieve. They are self-centered and lazy, not to mention they are mostly ugly, grow hair in the wrong places, chew food with their mouths open, and lean to fart.

I'd aspire to better than humanness. Alas, I can be nothing other.

But I've seen a neighbor care for his dying stepfather when there was nothing to gain -- nobody would know that he took the care to rub his stepfathers stiffened, arthritic shoulders, or bent low to the old man's face to hear the words he had little breath to force louder.

We can exhibit love, kindness, humility, gentleness, and occasionally do the selfless thing (without looking too deeply at true motivation). We just rarely choose this path.

If civility is your goal, elevating your humanness might be closer to attainable if you didn't resort to the rhetoric of those you wish to rise above. Limburger is not the fellow's name. It doesn't raise the level of discourse to get creative with the name -- and, on the scale of creativity, the name "Limburger" is at least as juvenile as Limbaugh's use of "Henry Nostrilitis Waxman" -- a name that's use has caused me to more than cringe -- I turn Rush off.

I also recall you, Tweed, as a strong apologist for Michael Moore -- Limbaugh's liberal counterpoint. Until we choose to hold our own guys to the standards we demand of those whose positions we don't share, the discourse will forever be bitter and fruitless. Our humannes will not be elevated.

Your questions (in your initial post) were leading ..... and inflammatory. Certainly not "asked" in a manner that would appear that those who disagreed with the opinion behind them would be included in your goal of "advanced humanness". In fact, as asked, they imply that any disagreement would condemn the other side to "devolved humanness" in their (our) ignorance.