Exactly, in the research I'm doing at the moment, I've got one guy, Walter Greaves, a blacksmith, winning traditional singing competition judged by Karl Dallas at the age of 65(ish). But he only 'discovered' folk music 2 years earlier, and learnt his songs in the same way the college students were, aroung the same time in the same area there was a group, The Jovial Crew, whose singer learnt all his songs from his dad, yet they were considered revival.

If we all agree these are silly terms, why are they so commonly employed, and we revivalists, or in my case second generation 60's revival (I'm 25) made to feel inferior because we're not farmers?

I read about Arthur Howard's Yorkshire television appearnces in Ian Russel's Singer Song and Scholar the other day and it made me laugh. The TV people had him singing whilst walking up hills and looking out over the sheep, not his usual practice obviously, and he couldn't do it because he was too out of breath.

What is this authentic traditionalist image we have in mind, and why is it different to what people are doing now. I guess that is my question.