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Uh-h-h Planxty?

Allan C. 15 Feb 99 - 03:43 PM
alicev@txdirect.net 15 Feb 99 - 04:04 PM
Pete M 15 Feb 99 - 04:12 PM
Bruce O. 15 Feb 99 - 04:46 PM
Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin 15 Feb 99 - 06:27 PM
Alan of Australia 15 Feb 99 - 06:48 PM
KingBrilliant 16 Feb 99 - 06:00 AM
Jon W. 16 Feb 99 - 11:19 AM
alicev@txdirect.net 16 Feb 99 - 01:59 PM
Pete M 16 Feb 99 - 02:26 PM
Allan C. 16 Feb 99 - 03:58 PM
Bruce O. 16 Feb 99 - 04:49 PM
Bruce O. 16 Feb 99 - 05:09 PM
alicev@txdirect.net 18 Feb 99 - 01:54 PM
Pete M 18 Feb 99 - 06:11 PM
Helen 18 Feb 99 - 06:42 PM
Pete M 18 Feb 99 - 08:10 PM
Allan C. 28 Apr 01 - 07:14 PM
Bernard 29 Apr 01 - 12:24 PM
Bernard 29 Apr 01 - 12:28 PM
Allan C. 29 Apr 01 - 07:31 PM
Bernard 30 Apr 01 - 08:43 AM
GUEST,UB Dan 30 Apr 01 - 09:23 AM
Allan C. 30 Apr 01 - 11:01 AM
Bernard 30 Apr 01 - 02:05 PM
NSC 30 Apr 01 - 06:37 PM
IanC 01 May 01 - 04:22 AM
Dave the Gnome 01 May 01 - 05:48 AM
NSC 01 May 01 - 10:33 AM
NSC 01 May 01 - 10:35 AM
IanC 01 May 01 - 10:56 AM
GUEST,joe 07 May 01 - 10:47 PM
Sarah the flute 08 May 01 - 03:33 AM
GUEST,Neil Comer 08 May 01 - 05:58 PM
GUEST,joe 09 May 01 - 10:21 PM
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Subject: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: Allan C.
Date: 15 Feb 99 - 03:43 PM

Please pardon my ignorance but what or who is "Planxty"? I often see it in various song titles and always supposed that I would eventually catch onto what it meant. But, alas, I remain as ignorant as ever!


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: alicev@txdirect.net
Date: 15 Feb 99 - 04:04 PM

As I understand it, it is a song of homage or rememberance, usually to a woman and it is Irish in origin.


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: Pete M
Date: 15 Feb 99 - 04:12 PM

An animated harp tune moving in triplets - origin unknown

OED.

Pete M


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: Bruce O.
Date: 15 Feb 99 - 04:46 PM

It a title of unknown origin used to denote tunes composed by Carolan in honor of some person. There are very few tunes called planxty (plansty, plangsty) that aren't by Carolan, and they are tunes later than Carolan's time.


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin
Date: 15 Feb 99 - 06:27 PM

Sean O Riada's theory was that it was based on a misreading of the Irish word SLAINTE written in uncials. His suggestion would make titles mean, "A Health to . . . ." whoever the tune was written in honour or praise of, eg Planxty George Brabazon or Planxty Fanny Powers or whoever.

Slainte,

Bobby Bob.


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 15 Feb 99 - 06:48 PM

G'day,
For a look at an earlier discussion of this click here.

Cheers,
Alan


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 16 Feb 99 - 06:00 AM

Oh wow! I thought Planxty was some geezer that went round 'collecting' songs around the turn of the century.

WHY I should think that I just don't know....

You live and learn.


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: Jon W.
Date: 16 Feb 99 - 11:19 AM

And to confuse matters even more, an Irish trad supergroup from the '70s and '80s took the word as their name.


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: alicev@txdirect.net
Date: 16 Feb 99 - 01:59 PM

OK-here goes! I discussed this with my husband who is a Celtic musician and he explained that, while what I said earlier in this string was true, it was not complete. This is what a planxty is--to wit: A planxty is a tune written in return for a favor. Sometimes it is a simple thank you and sometimes it is a quid-pro-quo--a return for services rendered. This accounts for many planxtys having names attached. A musician might, for example, in return for a meal and lodging write a tune for his host or in praise of his host's lady. Or he might write one for a lady who did him a kindness. I hope this settles for you what a planxty is despite some of the weirder stabs at explanations I've just read in this string.


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: Pete M
Date: 16 Feb 99 - 02:26 PM

Wierder stabs Alice?

Your husband's explanation is consistent with all the others given although not identical. I do however think that the OED and the research done by Bruce may have better provenance than the opinion of a "celtic musician", even if he is your husband ;-)

Pete M


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: Allan C.
Date: 16 Feb 99 - 03:58 PM

I'll take all the "stabs" I can get, Brutus.


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: Bruce O.
Date: 16 Feb 99 - 04:49 PM

I've not seen earlier use of 'Planksy' than that in the Neals 'A Collection of the Most Celebrated Irish Tunes', Dublin, c 1724. The facsimile edition, 1986, has notes by Nicholas Carolan, and that for "Planksty Plunket" where the word first appears, goes (part of note only): "The precise meaning and derivation of the term 'planksty' is unknown, but it indicates a lively instrumental air." Nicholas Carolan is at the Folk Music Society of Ireland, whose homepage you can click on from my website.


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: Bruce O.
Date: 16 Feb 99 - 05:09 PM

That should have been 'Planksty' in the first sentence above.


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: alicev@txdirect.net
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 01:54 PM

Pete M. The best use I've ever seen the OED put to is to be the dictionary of choice for people who can't otherwise play Scrabble. What makes you think a Celtic musician is ignorant of his craft? Or has done no research? Some of the answers which refer to O'Carolan's many planxtys add weight to my husband's explanation. A blind harper would frequently depend on the kindness of friends and strangers to get along. A musician lives by the credo "Don't give up your day job." What sort of day job do you think a blind harper could hold down in those times? When a person asks to be enlightened pedantry is not the answer. Pete!


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: Pete M
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 06:11 PM

Hi Alice, perhaps you should re-read my post. I said that your husband's explanation was consistent with the others. I made no comment, far less disparaging remark about his ability in any field, it was you who mentioned "wierd stabs". I was just pointing out that, as you quoted no other source, your husbands or your opinions are worth hearing, but that is all they are: your opinions.

On the other hand whether you like it or not, the lexicogrphers of the OED, Bruce, the Folk Music Society of Ireland, etc. have done, and continure to do, extensive research and quote their sources. If you consider giving reasons and sources to back up an explanation pedantic, you're entitled to that opinion, but I don't see why you think that detracts from rather than enhances, anyones enlightenment?

We are all well aware that the folk world is full of people who make erroneous claims in (presumably) good faith; the McPeake family's claims to "Wild mountain thyme" springs to mind; so you will I think find that people here offer, as we did above, an explanation and source, but will rarely make definitive statements that "This is ...." to the exclusion of other ideas or opinions.

Pete M


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: Helen
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 06:42 PM

Hi all,

I am not sure that I agree that Planxty's are in triplets all the time. But I'll have to look up some of my Carolan tunes to check my sources.

Helen


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: Pete M
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 08:10 PM

By the way Alice V, I should have mentioned that a lot of us consider the label "Pedant" a compliment ;-) See here, (and that we can't be serious about a subject for long even if we take it seriously!) SO - definitively

Planxty - sure and it's a bit of rope you use to tie up the planks!

Pete M


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: Allan C.
Date: 28 Apr 01 - 07:14 PM

refresh


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: Bernard
Date: 29 Apr 01 - 12:24 PM

Deja vu?


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: Bernard
Date: 29 Apr 01 - 12:28 PM

Ooops! Phone went, and I left the wrong thread ref in!!

Deja vu?


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: Allan C.
Date: 29 Apr 01 - 07:31 PM

Actully, Bernard, I thought it was much funnier the other way.


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: Bernard
Date: 30 Apr 01 - 08:43 AM

Erm, yes...

I think I've got Foot-in-Mouth disease!!


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: GUEST,UB Dan
Date: 30 Apr 01 - 09:23 AM

AS Jon W. said, there was also a group named Planxty. I believe it was where Christy Moore started out. From what I've heard Planxty was sort of at the lead of the revival of traditional Irish music during the 70's. In his song Lisdoonvarna, Christy Moore refers to several different singers and bands including "Moving Hearts, and Planxty too"...both are bands of which he was a member. This is probably not at all what you were asking about...but I really really wanted to join a discussion.


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: Allan C.
Date: 30 Apr 01 - 11:01 AM

Glad you did, UB Dan. All contributions are welcome.


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: Bernard
Date: 30 Apr 01 - 02:05 PM

Spot on, too. That's what we like around here!

;o)


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: NSC
Date: 30 Apr 01 - 06:37 PM

Chrisy Moore started out during a bank strike in Ireland in the early sixties.

He started on the UK folk club circuit and assisted in the great folk revival in the UK.

But there was never a revival in Ireland. This is because the tradition NEVER died and did not need reviving. However Christy was instrumental in making trad songs more popular and is very well regarded for his work.

He was a the leading force in the group Planxty which was a very popular group and also in the folk rock group Moving Hearts.

He is now in retirement following heart problems although he surfaces now and again.

He deserves his fame because he has worked so hard over the years.


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: IanC
Date: 01 May 01 - 04:22 AM

NSC

Despite the fact there was a "revival" in England, the tradition has never died here either. It certainly was very much alive and well when the so-called "folk revival" was taking place in the '50s, '60s and '70s, as can be seen from the huge number of recordings from English traditional sources which are now on the market. English folk has never been the same as popular music, nor is it always very much related to what goes on in folk clubs.

Cheers!
Ian


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 May 01 - 05:48 AM

I believe O'Carolan wrote some planxties for people who did him some dis-service as well. Dunno if it is true or not but funny if it is!

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: NSC
Date: 01 May 01 - 10:33 AM

Ian C

Point taken. But Ian, the tradition is so vibrant here in Ireland. I am a Geordie and I came through the clubs etc. in the North East. Living tradition was very hard to find even in the late sixties. Even those wonderful people, the Elliotts of Birtley, had to resort to singing their wonderful songs in a folk club. I know it is still alive and people like you are helping to keep it that way but it simply does not compare with the tradition here.


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: NSC
Date: 01 May 01 - 10:35 AM

Ian C

That last posting is, of course, a personal opinion that is not shared by everyone.

Wouldn't the world be a very sad place if we all agreed on everything.


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: IanC
Date: 01 May 01 - 10:56 AM

NSC

May depend where you are. I lived in Belfast during the late '70s and early '80s and found there was very little traditional going on in Co Down. Back here in Herts/Cambs, sessions are so thick you could go to one every day and most days you have to choose. Not all "traditional", I'll admit, but then they never were in that sense.

Cheers!
Ian


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: GUEST,joe
Date: 07 May 01 - 10:47 PM

sorry to mess up your thread but i still say (in 6/8), "...planks it; 'e plunks it 'e..." only 1/2 in jest.


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: Sarah the flute
Date: 08 May 01 - 03:33 AM

I'm reading the book Turloch by Brian Keenan - it's based on O'Carolan's life and it's great because it mentions all the people that the planxty's were named for


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: GUEST,Neil Comer
Date: 08 May 01 - 05:58 PM

I vaguely remember a similar thread. There is another theory about the origin of the word 'Planxty,' far removed from the Latin theory of a lament, because Planxtys were used as complimentary tunes.

The Irish word Planncadh (Dineen pg. 845) can mean playing the harp. Tí/tigh is the genitive/dative case of teach- the Irish word for house. Put it together and you get

Planncadh tigh+Irwin (The harp playing for the/of the house of Irwin) which could easily be corrupted to Planxty Irwin


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Subject: RE: Uh-h-h Planxty?
From: GUEST,joe
Date: 09 May 01 - 10:21 PM

how 'bout 'up-it-ty, up-it-ty...' ..hmmph!


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