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Subject: RE: Folklore: Whence came tickety-boo, kilter, & whack From: SussexCarole Date: 10 May 03 - 08:17 PM Whack = account - bill "I'll whet my whistle & pay my whack" |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Whence came tickety-boo, kilter, & whack From: smallpiper Date: 10 May 03 - 08:32 PM I'm tellin' ya my version is true just pick up a fiddle and pluck those strings and you will see for yourself. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Whence came tickety-boo, kilter, & whack From: Nigel Parsons Date: 11 May 03 - 04:17 AM SussexCarole: "Whack = account - bill ": not quite, to pay one's 'whack' is generally used to mean one will pay one's fair share of the bill, not the whole thing. Chambers 20th Century: whack:...to settle accounts...a share... So not quite conclusive in that dictionary Nigel |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Whence came tickety-boo, kilter, & whack From: Gurney Date: 11 May 03 - 04:28 AM Katlaughing, Orisons are Prayers, but a Tirewoman is a Milliner. I didn't check the rest. source was 'Dictionary of Archaic Words' first published 1860. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Whence came tickety-boo, kilter, & whack From: ciarili Date: 11 May 03 - 01:03 PM Hunky dory - perhaps it refers to Sean Connery in a boat? Esp if he's off kilter.... |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Whence came tickety-boo, kilter, & whack From: katlaughing Date: 11 May 03 - 03:03 PM Haha, I LIKE that one, ciarili! Gurney, thanks! And thanks to the rest o'yew, too. This is great fun! Q, et al, I'll get the sentence examples after awhile. I've been a bit out of it on a muscle relaxant since last night (Whoo-hoo, feeling good!) so haven't been quite *with it* if ya ken what I mean?! |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Whence came tickety-boo, kilter, & whack From: s&r Date: 11 May 03 - 03:51 PM I was told to tune a ukulele you just used the mnemonic "My Dog Has Fleas" - I tried for ages to figure out what the initials stood for before somebody put me out of my misery and explained that you sing the phrase to the tune of the open strings. As tuning aids go it's pretty crap. Tickety boo would do as well. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Whence came tickety-boo, kilter, & whack From: GUEST,Q Date: 11 May 03 - 05:02 PM Gurney is correct on te prayers, but "tirewoman" is, as you guessed, a woman who assists at a lady's toilet, i. e. a ladies maid. The OED gives examples from 1615. Quentin Durward was written in 1823. Any suggested meanings must have been in use at that time. An example from 1709- "Dressed with all the art and care that Mrs Toilet, the Tire-Woman could bestow on her." The last example given, 1867, from Ouida- "To while time away by scolding her tire-woman." An example given for cockered IS the quotation from Quentin Durward: I have not been cockered in wantonness and indulgence." "To indulge or humour," thus indulged or humored. OED. As I indicated, there are a number of definitions for cock, cockered, etc., in use in 1823. It is necessary to find the one that fits the sense of the phrase in the book. The Compact Edition of the Oxford English Dictionary, 2 vol. ed. micrographically reproduced varies from $75 to an astounding $250- ridiculous!- since thousands were given out by the Book of the Month Club in addition to normal sales. The 1987 supplement runs $95 approx. They list a 2-vol. 1991 2nd ed. at $235, but- is this just a reprinting of the earlier (1971) volumes?? |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Whence came tickety-boo, kilter, & whack From: rich-joy Date: 13 May 03 - 11:30 PM I feel like I've known the phrase "everything's hunky-dory and tickety-boo" since forever (I'm from Western Australia) and always thought it sounded like something a Noel Coward character would say!!! Cheers! R-J |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Whence came tickety-boo, kilter, & whack From: GUEST Date: 24 Jan 11 - 04:27 PM I think "out of kilter" comes from the Irish language word "ceirtle", meaning a ball of yarn, thread, string, or cord. When the thread or yarn comes "as an gceirtle", and gets tangled up, the weaving comes to a halt. The phrase in quotation marks would be "off the ball". "As ceirtle" would not apply to any particular ball, but would be a more generalized expression. The diminutive "ceirtlin"(acute accent over the last "i" to denote that the vowel is long) is used in expressions such as "ceirtlin tochraiste" to mean a very hardy, strongly built, active man--a tightly-wound ball as it were. Primitive technological terms applied generally to all technology. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Whence came tickety-boo, kilter, & whack From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 24 Jan 11 - 05:03 PM Wrong kelter (kilter) Kelter- good condition, state of health, in order; Cumbrian, Northumberland to Cornwall, and American, found in print since 1643. OED R. Williams, 1643. Key Lang. Amer. Their Gunnes they.... often sell many a score to the English, when they are a little out of frame or Kelter. Ray, 1674. Country Words. Kelter or Kilter. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Whence came tickety-boo, kilter, & whack From: Gurney Date: 25 Jan 11 - 02:55 AM For people who love this sort of thing, there are two dictionaries, (which I have) that you will enjoy. James Orchard Halliwell's 'Dictionary of Archaic Words,' Bracken Books, London, and Josefa Heifetz Byrne's 'Mrs. Byrne's Dictionary of Unusual, Obscure, and Preposterous Words,' Granada Publishing, England. I'd consider anyone who had come across 10% of the words in either of these books to be astonishingly broadly educated. Particularly the Archaic one, which starts with 19 uses of 'A' and goes on to 'zwodder,' before embarking on a letter no longer in use. GuestQ, this 960-page tome gives Tirewoman as a milliner, as I said, but Tireman as a seller of clothes, and Tire as clothing, (as in attire) so it is easy to see how the word could have more than one meaning, depending on usage. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Whence came tickety-boo, kilter, & whack From: Gurney Date: 25 Jan 11 - 03:06 AM Oh, and it also gives Kelter as 'condition, order, sometimes used as a verb.' Sorry about calling you Guest. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Whence came tickety-boo, kilter, & whack From: GUEST,Ruthven Date: 04 Mar 11 - 03:58 PM In Moab is my Washpot, Stephen Fry's autobiography, he describes a "tickety boo" as being a block of wood with a number painted on it, apparently used in a game of chance played in country fairs. I have not been able to find that definitions elsewhere though. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Whence came tickety-boo, kilter, & whack From: Lighter Date: 04 Mar 11 - 04:15 PM "Tiggerty-boo (The Forces' Thumbs-Up Song)" words and music by Hal Hallifax, was copyright in the U.K. and the U.S. in July, 1940. The subtitle suggests that the songwriter believed it was an armed forces expression. The song became so popular that it was mentioned in Life magazine's coverage of the Battle of Britain a few weeks later. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Whence came tickety-boo, kilter, & whack From: michaelr Date: 25 Jun 11 - 01:56 PM I've forever wondered what "come a cropper" means, and how the phrase originated. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Whence came tickety-boo, kilter, & whack From: Jim Carroll Date: 26 Jun 11 - 03:02 AM From 'The Insect That Stole Butter' - the excellent Oxford Dictionary of Word Origins. Under Raj: "The 1930s slang word of approval 'tickety-boo' has no association with tick or ticket, but probably comes from a Hindi expression thik hai - all right." It seems The Walrus got the answer 8 years ago. Come a Cropper. To come a cropper is to suffer a defeat or disaster. The origin of the phrase maybe the 19th-century hunting slang term 'cropper', meaning 'a heavy fall'. Cropper probably came from neck and crop, an expression meaning 'completely or thoroughly' and originally used in the context of a horse falling to the ground. Crop here referred either to the rider's whip (originally the top part of a whip) or the horse's hindquarters. This sense is found in Old French croupe 'rump', which appears as croup in Middle English, and is the source of the crupper [ME], the bit of harness that goes from the saddle under the horse's tail, and which lies behind the word croupier [E18th]. In early use, this was a term for a person standing behind a gambler to give advice, adopted from French, cropier 'pillion rider, rider on the croup'.â€쳌 Eric Partridge’s Dictionary of Historical Slang confirms this: “Cropper; esp. come, or go a cropper. A heavy fall, fig. or lit.: from the late 1850s; coll. Trollop, 1880, “he could not… ask what might happen if he were to come a cropper.â€쳌 Ex. Hunting.â€쳌 Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Whence came tickety-boo, kilter, & whack From: Jim Carroll Date: 26 Jun 11 - 03:19 AM From the excellent ' The Insect That Stole Butter' the excellent Oxford Dictionary of Word Origins. Under 'Raj' From the same dictionary “crop [OE] From around AD 700 to the late 18th century crop, related to group [L17th], had a sense 'flower head, ear of corn', which gave rise to the main modern meaning 'a cultivated plant grown on a large scale' and also to senses referring to the top of something, such as the verb uses 'to cut very short' or 'to bite off and eat the tops of plants'. The sense 'a very short hairstyle' goes back to the late 18th century but is particularly associated with the 1920s, when the Eton crop, reminiscent of the style then worn at the English public school Eton, was fashionable for young women. To come a cropper is to suffer a defeat or disaster. The origin of the phrase maybe the 19th-century hunting slang term 'cropper', meaning 'a heavy fall'. Cropper probably came from neck and crop, an expression meaning 'completely or thoroughly' and originally used in the context of a horse falling to the ground. Crop here referred either to the rider's whip (originally the top part of a whip) or the horse's hindquarters. This sense is found in Old French croupe 'rump', which appears as croup in Middle English, and is the source of the crupper [ME], the bit of harness that goes from the saddle under the horse's tail, and which lies behind the word croupier [E18th]. In early use, this was a term for a person standing behind a gambler to give advice, adopted from French, cropier 'pillion rider, rider on the croup'.â€쳌 Eric Partridge’s Dictionary of Historical Slang confirms this: “Cropper; esp. come, or go a cropper. A heavy fall, fig. or lit.: from the late 1850s; coll. Trollop, 1880, “he could not… ask what might happen if he were to come a cropper.â€쳌 Ex. Hunting.â€쳌 |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Whence came tickety-boo, kilter, & whack From: Jim Carroll Date: 26 Jun 11 - 03:20 AM Whoops Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Whence came tickety-boo, kilter, & whack From: The Sandman Date: 26 Jun 11 - 06:13 AM Tickety boo is a suffolk dialect word. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Whence came tickety-boo, kilter, & whack From: The Sandman Date: 26 Jun 11 - 06:22 AM suffolk dialect,along with bor, jip,coode heck,rood, suffin cold. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Whence came tickety-boo, kilter, & whack From: GUEST,Goodstone Date: 06 Jan 12 - 05:27 PM perhaps: kilt (v) to tuck up," mid-14c., of Scandinavian origin; cf. Dan. kilte, Swed. kilta "to tuck up;" see kilt (n.). Related: Kilted; kilting. -er (1) English agent noun ending, corresponding to L. -or. In native words it represents O.E. -ere (O.Northumbrian also -are) "man who has to do with," from W.Gmc. *-ari (cf. Ger. -er, Swed. -are, Dan. -ere), from P.Gmc. *-arjoz. Some believe this root is identical with, and perhaps a borrowing of, Latin -arius. In words of Latin origin, verbs derived from pp. stems of Latin ones (including most verbs in -ate) usually take the Latin ending -or, as do Latin verbs that passed through French (e.g. governor), but there are many exceptions (eraser, laborer, promoter, deserter, sailor, bachelor), some of which were conformed from Latin to English in late M.E. The use of -or and -ee in legal language (e.g. lessor/lessee) to distinguish actors and recipients of action has given the -or ending a tinge of professionalism, and this makes it useful in doubling words that have both a professional and non-professional sense (e.g. advisor/adviser, conductor/conducter, incubator/incubater, elevator/elevater). -er (2) comparative suffix, from O.E. -ra (masc.), -re (fem., neut.), from P.Gmc. *-izon, *-ozon (cf. Goth. -iza, O.S. -iro, O.N. -ri, O.H.G. -iro, Ger. -er), originally also with umlaut change in stem, but this was mostly lost in O.E. by historical times and has now vanished (except in better and elder). "For most comparatives of one or two syllables, use of -er seems to be fading as the oral element in our society relies on more before adjectives to express the comparative; thus prettier is more pretty, cooler is more cool" [Barnhart]. -er (3) suffix used to make jocular or familiar formations from common or proper names (soccer being one), first attested 1860s, English schoolboy slang, "Introduced from Rugby School into Oxford University slang, orig. at University College, in Michaelmas Term, 1875" [OED, with unusual precision]. http://www.etymonline.com/ so that would make sense as to why kilter is taken to mean orderly, its all tucked straight, this could be taken from a combination of any of the three definitions for the suffix -er, added to kilt, especially the third definition of -er. Lol, check out the origin of the word Soccer! :) |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Whence came tickety-boo, kilter, & whack From: Anne Lister Date: 06 Jan 12 - 05:47 PM Just to add to a previous contributor - a tirewoman would be the lady's maid, who would help her to dress. Shakespeare's Globe Theatre in London keeps the word in currency by referring to the dressing rooms for the actors as the tiring rooms. I know because I've been in them. |
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