Subject: metrical psalms - What are they? From: wilco Date: 24 Sep 02 - 11:36 AM In one of the Amazing Grace threads, Murray mentions that the Scottish Psalmody has long and short formats for the psalms. What are they? Is this practice, using the Scottish Psalmody, still common? |
Subject: RE: metrical psalms - What are they? From: Murray MacLeod Date: 24 Sep 02 - 12:42 PM wilco, I will give a more detailed reply later, after I dig out my old Psalmody, which, I regret to say still lies somewhere in a packing case after six months ...... Whether these metrical psalms are still sung in Churches in Scotland I am unable to say. The Church of Scotland, as far as I am aware , seems to have gone over completely to modern tunes and modern hymns, and abandoned the traditional Psalms and hymns. I am fairly sure that the more fundamentalist Churches i.e the Free Church of Scotland (aka the "Wee Frees") and the Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland still use the traditional modes of praise. I will post again with comments on the varying (short common and long) unless someone else has obliged in the meantime. Murray
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Subject: RE: metrical psalms - What are they? From: Murray MacLeod Date: 24 Sep 02 - 12:44 PM varying metres I meant to say. |
Subject: RE: metrical psalms - What are they? From: wilco Date: 24 Sep 02 - 01:46 PM Thanks. Looking forward to it!!! |
Subject: RE: metrical psalms - What are they? From: John MacKenzie Date: 24 Sep 02 - 02:56 PM You should hear the Gaelic hymn singing, it is wonderful, they work a bit like a shanty man, or the leader of the chain gang. In that they have a lead singer who starts the verse, and then all join in. Sounds very undisciplined at times, I don't understand a word, and yet somehow it's uplifting to listen to. Failte.....Giok |
Subject: RE: metrical psalms - What are they? From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Date: 24 Sep 02 - 06:14 PM I wonder if the metrical psalms are similar to the Gaelic Psalm singing form, known as precenting. In this form, a Precentor, sings a line, or chants it. The congregation sings the line themselves, but to a different tune. I don't know, but would this be similar to the Cantors/Kantors in the Jewish tradition? |
Subject: RE: metrical psalms - What are they? From: masato sakurai Date: 24 Sep 02 - 06:55 PM Lots of info can be obtained through Google search: metrical psalms. ~Masato |
Subject: RE: metrical psalms - What are they? From: Burke Date: 24 Sep 02 - 07:00 PM A metrical psalm is a version of the psalm done into a poetic meter instead of a straight translation. After the Reformation there were some groups that felt the only texts appropriate for use in church were Biblical. They did want to sing in church (although some didn't do that either). The need for appropriate texts to sing led to various versions of English Psalms being put into regular stanza form so that they could be sung easily. Most of the Psalms were done into just a couple of meters. The meters are defined by how many syllables there are to a line & how many lines. Books with just the words would then include a meter indication so that the song leaders could choose appropriate hymn tunes. You can find several of the traditional English Psaltars at Music for the Church of God Many of the old metrical pslams can be found in current hymnals, they are just not designated that way anymore. Many general hymns are written in these 'psalm' meters simply because they are standard English poetic meters.
The main meters are: Because many people did not have psalm books or could not read systems of precenting or lining out developed. There are traditions that kept the lining out practice alive even after most everyone had the words simply because they liked it or were too conservative to change. These are also groups that don't use musical instruments in church so the joining in that Giok describes can also happen. I'm assuming the Gaelic singing practices are pretty much the same as the English, just different languages.
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Subject: RE: metrical psalms - What are they? From: Snuffy Date: 24 Sep 02 - 07:32 PM Many tunes in hymnbooks were originally written for metrical psalms and contain the psalm's number in the tune name (Darwall's 148th, Old 100th, etc). My hymnbook has Old 18th, 22nd, 25th, 30th, 44th, 77th, 81st, 100th, 104th, 107th, 117th, 120th, 124th, 134th, 136th and 137th, but New 113th is the only new one! I haven't checked, but probably many of these tunes are now used for later hymnms, rather than just psalms. WassaiL! V |
Subject: RE: metrical psalms - What are they? From: Murray MacLeod Date: 24 Sep 02 - 08:21 PM Burke has explained the metrical question perfectly. My childhood recollection is that the "giving out the line" as it was known in the Scottish Highlands, was only done in Gaelic services. Each line of the psalm was chanted in a monotone by the precentor, followed by the congregation singing the line to the melody. My further recollection is that timing and rhythm in these Gaelic psalms were very much a matter of individual discretion, leading to what to some ears might seem cacophony. Other ears might find an ethereal beauty in the overall effect. Psalms during English language services were normally sung by the precentor starting off the psalm in his choice of tune and key, and the congregation joining in after the first few notes. My father was a precentor in the Free Church for many years. It may well be that some congregations , particularly in the Western Isles did in fact maintain the practice of giving out the line even for English services, but I have no recollection of this. Certain psalms had certain tunes allocated to them irrevocably, and woe betide the precentor who tried his hand at innovation in this respect.... Murray |
Subject: RE: metrical psalms - What are they? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 24 Sep 02 - 10:01 PM Quite a few standard hymns (and many modern ones too) are in fact metricised psalms. The best known being "The Lord is my Shepherd". |
Subject: RE: metrical psalms - What are they? From: Dave Bryant Date: 25 Sep 02 - 07:01 AM Isaac Watts was one of the major "metricators", although Nahum Tate and others did their bit. You've only got to look through Hymns Ancient and Modern", "Southern Harmony", "The Sacred Harp" or even more modern books to realise just how prolific Watts was. |
Subject: RE: metrical psalms - What are they? From: Nigel Parsons Date: 25 Sep 02 - 12:25 PM Psalm singing is slowly falling into disuse. The psalter as 'pointed' for use with Anglican chants (in its many translations) allows for the psalms to be sung without the need for 'metricated' versions. Each 'verse' of a psalm is 'pointed' to allow a 'chanting' note for the first however many syllables, with further notes to match the remaining syllables. This is done in the format: Chanting note, /minim,minim,/semi-breve: Chanting note, /minim,minim,/minm,minim, /semibreve: Certain chants will allow for crotchets and dotted crotchets with quavers in the melody or harmony, but the standard still prevails. This allows any psalm to be 'pointed' using 'forward slashes (/) to indicate the bar lines (indicated by (/) above) Where the number of syllables between two bar lines does not match the number of notes available, the point at which the words are split over the two notes is indicated by a raised dot in the words. (e.g. psalm1 v9 "The Father of an/ infin·ite/ majesty:" thine hnorable true and only Son; also the/Holy/Ghost the/Comforter.) It is accepted that "bless'ed" is normally sung as two syllables in these circumstances, but any other word so sung will be indicated by an apostrophe. e.g. help'ed. Nigel |
Subject: RE: metrical psalms - What are they? From: wilco Date: 25 Sep 02 - 01:09 PM Thanks!!!! The reference to structure might be similiar to what we hear around here in "Sacred Harp" or "Whole Note" singings. I have been repeatedly told that it would have "died-out" except for its' continued use here. The leader will cite a number, mention a melody line (?), and then "sound" the notes in the proper key to each section (Bases, tenors, altos, etc.). What is fascinating is that the books have hundreds of numbered hymnns, and someone can call out a number , and everyone will know the song!!! Issac Watt's hymnns are common in sacred Harp. |
Subject: RE: metrical psalms - What are they? From: Burke Date: 25 Sep 02 - 06:35 PM Watts didn't like the older versions of the metrical psalms so he did his own. If so inclined compare some of his to the Old version (Sternhold & Hopkins), New version (Brady & Tate) and a non-metrical translation. They are all paraphrases, but Watts' Psalms "Imitated in the Language of the New Testament" are a bit looser in intrepretation than the others. Watts also managed to find references to England. Early in US history Watts was edited to remove those references. Unfortunately I don't have specific examples. |
Subject: RE: metrical psalms - What are they? From: Nigel Parsons Date: 26 Sep 02 - 08:06 AM Slight correction to the above, the quote was from the 'Te Deum', not psalm 1. Silly me I thought the psalter I picked up started at psalm 1 Nigel |
Subject: RE: metrical psalms - What are they? From: Burke Date: 26 Sep 02 - 12:51 PM In my Episcopal church we sing the Psalms as Nigel describes almost every week. If we're doing Morning or Evening Prayer we will also often sing the canticles. We would not otherwise be considered particularly high church. When the choir is singing, we switch off between choir & congregation singing straight Anglican Chant; Antiphonally with a 'cantor' singing the pointed verses, the choir & congregation singing the antiphon; or the choir only singing from a contemporary setting. I forget the name of the series the last is from. Occasionally we'll do simplified Anglican Chant when the choir is not around. Personally, I think the pointing sometimes just does not make sense. I'm not sure how much the congregation is really singing along on the Anglican Chant. The choir usually needs to go over a couple of verses several times to get it right so the members of the congregation may just get frustrated with it, although I've not heard any complaints. This is, of course, a different approach than the metrical Psalms. I'm pretty sure the metrical psalms developed in the Reformed tradition (Puritan, Presbyterian) where this type of Psalm singing was probably just to liturgical. I'm fairly certain the Lutherans' hymnal in the US provides pointing & a short phrase of music for all of the Psalms. |
Subject: RE: metrical psalms - What are they? From: GUEST Date: 26 Sep 02 - 01:19 PM LBW (Lutheran Book of Worship) does indeed include a method of chanting the psalms. The pointing of Anglican Chant has changed in the past 40 years. Formerly the reciting note was prolonged until the last 3 or so syllables of the first half-verse and until the last 5 or so syllables of the second half verse. Nowadays the reciting note usually lasts up to an important accented syllable. Sometimes this results in the same pointing as the old method, sometimes not. This might help the discussion of metrical psalms: Here is an example of first stanza and music of the Old Version of the (metrical) 119th psalm, from an edition of 1646. |
Subject: RE: metrical psalms - What are they? From: Nigel Parsons Date: 26 Sep 02 - 04:41 PM To quote from the "Rules" printed at the start of "The Revised Psalter Pointed for Use With Anglican Chants" "1, Every word must be pronounced clearly and with natural emphasis 2, The length and accentuation of each note (or chord) in the chant must be governed entirely by the words and not vice versa 3, Breath is to be taken only at asterisks, colons, and at the ends of verses." This is clearly why the bar lines are now placed immediately before an accented syllable, so that the emphasis of 'the beat' does not clash with a 'natural' reading of the words. Nigel |
Subject: RE: metrical psalms - What are they? From: Nigel Parsons Date: 27 Sep 02 - 04:52 AM I should also have noted that the Anglican Chant Book contains 391 chants, to be used with 150 psalms and half a dozen canticles. Whilst most are generally associated with a particular psalm (or part psalm for very long psalms) they are fully interchangeable (except chants 390/391 which are set for Psalm 150) The chants also appear in three distinct types, single, double and quadruple. i.e. long enough to be sung to 1,2 or 4 verses before repetition. The double chant is the most common, but for a psalm with an odd number of verses,the 'second part' of the chant will need to be repeated at some point in order to get a full cadence at the end. If the repeated second part is anywhere except the last verse, it will be indicated by an obelus (dagger symbol) in the margin preceding the required verse. It is not always left to the end because some psalms are clearly written with the meaning forming two verse paragraphs, and the intention then is to position the second part in such a way as to avoid separating these verses. There are even examples of psalms with an even number of verses requiring a second part to be repeated on two occasions to keep the meaning. With the excess number of chants, it is quite feasible to chose a chant in the same key as a hymn which immediately follows it. This can avoid the need for the hymn tune to be played over as everyone is already in key. Nigel |
Subject: Lyr Add: Psalm 151 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 21 Oct 02 - 06:49 AM Going through some paper work I came across the following example of the pitfalls and problems with the singing of metrical psalms in the Anglican tradition. The title should alert you, as the Psalms of David only number 150! PSALM 151 (author unknown) Double Chant 1. Give ear O ye nations and hearken unto the / words of .our / mouths: Give heed ye unwise among the people, that ye may understand the / nature / of our / song. 2. Be ye not like to horse and mule which have / no . under / standing: Whose mouths must be held with bit and bridle, lest they / fall . into / some strange / melody. 3. For it is given unto the singers and such as are / skilled in / music: To interpret the / Psalms to . the / Anglican Chant. 4. But the congregation of naughty men, or rather the naughty men of the congregation, do not well con-/ sider / this: Nor do they / seem to / under- / stand it. 5. For example, in one verse which has a very long passage to be recited on one note when we cram in as many words as we possibly can,* with suitable pauses,* coming at length to the end of the half-verse when you / least ex-/ pect it: The congregation gets / caught out / every /time. 6. Melchisadech and the Leviathan, the Hivites and the Perrinites, are to / them a / stumbling block: To say nothing of Annamalech and Andramalech and the / gods of / Sepher- / aim. 7, Therefore put not thy foot upon an hassock and sing not with a / stiff / neck: Neither make thou noises like a / peli.can / in the / wilderness. 8. For we can discomfit an / host of / men: And drown them with the noise of / water / in the / organ pipes. 9. (2nd half) Thou shalt be put to confusion also when we suddenly discover there are not enough verses / in this / Psalm: Which is why we are repeating the / second . part / of the / chant. Change - Single Chant 10. Then, without any warning we / change our / tune: Just as the congregation has got ac-/ customed / to the / other one. 11. They reel to and fro and stagger like a / drunken / man: But hard as they may try they will / never . catch / on to . this / tune. 12, Especially with the tricky little / piece of / pointing; Which we / worked out / on . Thursday / night. 13. And this will / take us / through / the / chant with- / out a / break. 14. Give ear O ye nation and hearken unto the / words . of our / mouths: Ye whose efforts are usually so ... ATROC- /IOUS/ AND A-/BOMINABLE. 15. Give heed unto our counsels and the music / of the / choir: And if you really can't do any / better / - (said) JUST DON'T SING. Notes: I first remember seeing this as a young chorister in the early 1960s. I have never seen a copy with attributions, It may well be that the author disowned it! |
Subject: RE: metrical psalms - What are they? From: wilco Date: 21 Oct 02 - 10:33 AM Is "pointing" the practice of calling out the verses by the song leader. One of my sons does the music in a Roman Catholic Church, and they use "responsorial Psalms." |
Subject: RE: metrical psalms - What are they? From: IanC Date: 21 Oct 02 - 11:00 AM No. Pointing is putting the stresses in the right place :-) |
Subject: RE: metrical psalms - What are they? From: Nigel Parsons Date: 21 Oct 02 - 11:15 AM No. 'Pointing' is the inclusion of a "forward slash" to indicate (in the words) where the Bar line (in the music) would occur. This, of course, does lead to a stressed syllable immediately following the bar line (forward slash). See my comments 26.Sept @ 4:41 Nigel |
Subject: RE: metrical psalms - What are they? From: Burke Date: 21 Oct 02 - 12:43 PM LOL!! v. 5 is especially good. I'll take it to choir on Thursday. In for example: "/ words of .our /" The dot shows where to change note, right? So "Words of" is the 1st note & "our" is the second? Our's puts a line over the syllables sung on one note. It's more obvious, but the (.) is easier for typing. NB, it's not an example of a metrical psalm, it's an example of why metrical psalms were developed. I've been looking for an example of pointing with accompanying music on the web, but so far nothing. I did find an article on Singing the Psalms. It also mentions "Responsorial Psalm: A psalm, one verse of which is used as an introduction and refrain, with other verses interspersed (usually sung by a cantor)." We also do this in our church. The cantor does use a pointed version of the psalm verses. Pointing is the way to mark non-metrical psalms for singing, but does not dictate the method of use. The use can be responsorial, a congregational chant, or by a choir. |
Subject: RE: metrical psalms - What are they? From: IanC Date: 22 Oct 02 - 07:04 AM Nigel I'm sorry to disagree with you, but it's actually exactly the other way round. Pointing is a way of defining which syllables are stressed. It essentially uses the equivalent of bar lines (though by no means for all the musical bars) to indicate this. Here's the entry in The Oxford Dictionary of Music. Pointing In Anglican chant, the allotting of syllables to the notes on which they are to be sung (as in psalms and canticles). First attempt to present pointing in printed form was by Robert Janes, organist of Ely Cath., in 1837. :-) Ian |
Subject: RE: metrical psalms - What are they? From: Nigel Parsons Date: 23 Oct 02 - 06:34 AM Burke: If you need printed examples of Anglican Chant PM me & I'll email you a page from the chant book. IanC: Just another way of saying the same thing. The allotting of syllables to notes follows the natural stressing of the spoken language, but it is the presence of the bar lines which shows the positioning of a more heavily stressed syllable with a lighter stress following the 'dot' where there are 3 or more syllables to be sung in one bar. Nigel |
Subject: RE: metrical psalms - What are they? From: Burke Date: 23 Oct 02 - 12:31 PM Nigel, thanks for the offer. I don't need an example, I was just trying to find something to point wilco48 or others to. |
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