mudcat.org: Advice Please? - use of offensive words in songs

sj

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home Page: [1] [2] [3]

Advice Please? - use of offensive words in songs

Related threads:
Steamboat coonjine songs (68)
Are racist, but traditional, songs OK? (405) (closed)
Minstrel Shows, Part Two (81)
What is the etymology of 'Pattyroller'? (40)
Slavery-Era Song, 'Run, ======, Run' (83)
'Coon Songs' Revisited (13)
Lyr Add: Minstrel Coonjine Songs (6)
Offensive lyrics- edit? (54)
(origins) Origins: Free at Last/I Thank God I'm Free at Last (8)
Lyr Req: Give That Nigger Ham (Parker/Woolbright) (23)
Chord Req: Josh White - Run Mona Run (4)
Tune Req: Fiddle tune 'The Patter Roll' (6)
Lyr Req: Oh, Mona (24)
'Coon Songs' Your Thoughts About Them (145)
(origins) Origins: Run, Nigger, Run (92)
Ethics for Performers (35)
Tune Req: I'd Rather be a Nigger than a Poor White (11)
Singing In Dialect (70)
Racist songs .... arghhhh! (115) (closed)
Minstrel Shows (117) (closed)
Trad lyrics that are not PC (17)
Are lyrics offensive (69)
Preserve Politically Incorrect Songs??? (73)
Is 'Piccaninnies' Non-PC ? (94)
'Offensive' words in song lyrics (73)
darkeys - offensive term, or not? (49)
Lyr Add: Run, Jimmie, Run (4)

Leadfingers	18 Dec 06 - 12:48 PM
Leadfingers	18 Dec 06 - 12:49 PM
DonMeixner	18 Dec 06 - 12:50 PM
Bert	18 Dec 06 - 04:15 PM
McGrath of Harlow	19 Dec 06 - 06:57 AM
Scrump	19 Dec 06 - 07:26 AM
GUEST	19 Dec 06 - 07:44 AM
Howard Jones	19 Dec 06 - 08:41 AM
McGrath of Harlow	19 Dec 06 - 09:01 AM
Bert	19 Dec 06 - 12:01 PM
Cluin	19 Dec 06 - 12:04 PM
McGrath of Harlow	19 Dec 06 - 12:16 PM
Azizi	19 Dec 06 - 11:55 PM

Share Thread

Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT Forum Child
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date

DT Lyrics:

Subject: RE: Advice Please? - use of offensive words in songs
From: Leadfingers
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 12:48 PM

100 !!

Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Advice Please? - use of offensive words in songs
From: Leadfingers
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 12:49 PM

Bugger !!

Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Advice Please? - use of offensive words in songs
From: DonMeixner
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 12:50 PM

Hah!

Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Advice Please? - use of offensive words in songs
From: Bert
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 04:15 PM

"Sailor" - Good one Melanie, I'll remember that.

Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Advice Please? - use of offensive words in son
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 06:57 AM

"Bugger" - yes, that would fit in as well.

Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Advice Please? - use of offensive words in songs
From: Scrump
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 07:26 AM

The trouble with replacing the 'n-word' with 'sailor' is that it requires the subject of the song to be of a seafaring nature, and therefore its use is somewhat limited, in general. I agree with McGrath - 'bugger' is a much less specific word which could be used in a variety of contexts, even those of a land-based occupation.

Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Advice Please? - use of offensive words in songs
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 07:44 AM

But how long before the poofters object to us saying 'bugger' ?

Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Advice Please? - use of offensive words in songs
From: Howard Jones
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 08:41 AM

But isn't "bugger" also offensive to many, albeit in a different way?

The problem is that language is a slippery thing which changes with time and place. it may be true that the reason national nicknames were used more casually in the past was because the people to whom they applied were looked down upon, but it may also be that they weren't considered offensive at the time. And perhaps people then were less inclined to take offence than today.

Hugill excuses keeping the word "nigger" on the grounds that it was universally used by both black and white sailors without derogatory overtones. In a multi-racial, multi-national industry it was a man's ability as a sailor and not his skin colour which mattered. Of course the black sailors probably weren't in a position to object.

I had a Welsh friend at university who was universally known as "Taffy", I don't think I ever know his real name. It was neither intended nor seen as anything other than an affectionate nickname.

When I was growing up it would have been considered very offensive to call someone "black", the accepted terms were "negro" or "coloured". Now "black" is the accepted term and the others are considered offensive.

Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Advice Please? - use of offensive words in son
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 09:01 AM

I think "bugger" has moved out of the offensive category by now. It just means the same as "bloke" now. In countries where the word "bloke" is current, anyway.

Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Advice Please? - use of offensive words in songs
From: Bert
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 12:01 PM

Fellow can also work.

Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Advice Please? - use of offensive words in songs
From: Cluin
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 12:04 PM

Or "fucker".

Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Advice Please? - use of offensive words in son
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 12:16 PM

Or Yankee or Limey. Or folkie...

Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Advice Please? - use of offensive words in songs
From: Azizi
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 11:55 PM

Howard Jones, I want to publicly thank you for prompting me to engage in research on the historical existence and condition of 19th century and earlier Black sailors.

If I understand a comment you made in your 19 Dec 06 - 08:41 AM post correctly, Hugill [and/or you] are saying that at least on board the ships there was an equalitarian approach to individuals without any regard to race.

Even from the initial reading that I have done online, while I would agree that a man's skills and not his skin color was considered most important during times of danger and during the course of other daily tasks, there can be no doubt that one of the dangers of being a mariner that Black sailors faced that White sailors didn't face was that of being captured, imprisoned and enslaved.

The fact that you [or Hugill?] added the comment "Of course the black sailors probably weren't in a position to object [to being called a N-----" implies to me that the conditions of Black sailors and White sailors were not equal.

-snip-

Be that as it may or may not be, you and other posters to this thread may be interested in reading information that I intend to post{and hopefully others will post} on this Mudcat thread:

Black Jacks: History & Shanties

Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Share Thread:

Reply to Thread

Subject:	Help
From:

Preview Automatic Linebreaks Make a link ("blue clicky")

Mudcat time: 18 October 10:32 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 2022 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.