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Harry Belafonte on L.K. show. Amazing!

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BANANA BOAT SONG
BELAMENA
CHOUCOUNE
COME BACK, LIZA
EDEN WAS JUST LIKE THIS
JAMAICA FAREWELL
TURN AROUND
YELLOW BIRD

53	22 Oct 02 - 09:36 AM
Little Hawk	22 Oct 02 - 01:00 PM
DougR	22 Oct 02 - 01:28 PM
GUEST,Kim C no cookie	22 Oct 02 - 02:15 PM
Alice	22 Oct 02 - 02:44 PM
GUEST,Claymore	22 Oct 02 - 08:39 PM
GUEST	22 Oct 02 - 09:59 PM
Mark Clark	22 Oct 02 - 10:46 PM
Bobert	22 Oct 02 - 10:59 PM
Mark Clark	22 Oct 02 - 11:27 PM
Little Hawk	23 Oct 02 - 12:29 AM
Lonesome EJ	23 Oct 02 - 01:59 AM
GUEST,Claymore	23 Oct 02 - 09:44 AM
GUEST,Kim C no cookie	23 Oct 02 - 09:59 AM
Little Hawk	23 Oct 02 - 11:49 AM
DougR	23 Oct 02 - 12:20 PM
mg	23 Oct 02 - 12:27 PM
GUEST,Don Meixner	23 Oct 02 - 12:36 PM
Peter T.	23 Oct 02 - 12:59 PM

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Subject: RE: Harry Belafonte on L.K. show. Amazing!
From: 53
Date: 22 Oct 02 - 09:36 AM

Sorry I miszed it. Bob

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Subject: RE: Harry Belafonte on L.K. show. Amazing!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Oct 02 - 01:00 PM

Actually, Mark, I think we need Doug to maintain his customary opinions, since it gives so many of us a convenient foil to sharpen our debating skills against and to clarify our own positions!

And...he does a useful public service presenting the likeable, human side of conservatism. :-)

- LH

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Subject: RE: Harry Belafonte on L.K. show. Amazing!
From: DougR
Date: 22 Oct 02 - 01:28 PM

L.H.: I'm warning you! Compliments will not buy your way into Conservative Heaven! :>)

Peter: That's a funny cartoon. Thanks for posting it.

DougR

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Subject: RE: Harry Belafonte on L.K. show. Amazing!
From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie
Date: 22 Oct 02 - 02:15 PM

Bobert, I didn't discredit Harry, or Harry's work.

I just think he could have expressed his opinion in a better way. The freedom of speech carries with it the responsibility to speak wisely, and the discretion to know when NOT to speak. And I have no doubt, that if a white man had said what he said, there would be a HUGE outcry.

And maybe I have it all wrong.

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Subject: RE: Harry Belafonte on L.K. show. Amazing!
From: Alice
Date: 22 Oct 02 - 02:44 PM

Kim C, I agree with you. I want someone on my side of a debate to have the ability to argue our case with logic and reasoning, not using insults. Using personal attacks just weakens our position.

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Subject: RE: Harry Belafonte on L.K. show. Amazing!
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 22 Oct 02 - 08:39 PM

You might have read of the report in the Washington Post yesterday of Condi Rice being asked about Belafonte's comments. "Mr. Belafonte is the last person who needs to instruct me on being Black", she replied. The Post article was just a few lines with her picture, subtitled "the last word..." What a class act she is.

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Subject: RE: Harry Belafonte on L.K. show. Amazing!
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Oct 02 - 09:59 PM

Yeah, Claymore, upper class... And I'm wonderin' who the first person was to instruct "Condi" in her blackness, or heck, any of the folks in the midddle before Harry Belafonte got his turn at the plate? She's whiter than white. She does not represent but only the upper of the upper class of African Americans and does not speak for Black folks.

Yeah, don't believe my white butt. Take yourself on out into the real world and ask some real black folk what they think. You're gonna get a lot of Herry Belafonte responses.

I'm a blues player and, thus, I know a lot of black folks. Actually, thinking back on my life, I've spent a lot more of my life with black folks than white folks. Not that I have anything against white folks, mind you, but I would go as far as to say that I can go to places where "Condi" would be scared half out of her mind. So what Harry Belafonte says represents not only *his* feelings but those of a large majority of black folks in general.

Bobert

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Subject: RE: Harry Belafonte on L.K. show. Amazing!
From: Mark Clark
Date: 22 Oct 02 - 10:46 PM

Yeah, L.H., he is kinda nice to have around. Doug is the very first conservative I've run into who seems like he might also be a nice person to know.

And there are upper class blacks like Condi. I remember my niece saying, while she was at Yale, that her upper class black roommate had never heard the term wages.

In the period just before his murder, Dr. King had figured out that discrimination in this country has more to do with economic class than with race and was working to incorporate that philosophy into the work of the SCLC. Some have opined that that revelation made him more dangerous to the upper class oligarchy than he had been as simply a racial equality advocate.

- Mark

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Subject: RE: Harry Belafonte on L.K. show. Amazing!
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Oct 02 - 10:59 PM

Funny thing, Mark. Same thing for Malcolm X just before he was killed off. Hmmmmmm? Ever wonder why Malcolm X, Martin Luther King and Bobbt Kennedy were killed off by folks who you'd have to really stretch to come up with a motive? Hmmmmmm? Man, I'd love to have any of the three of them with us today. Yeah, the three brightest. The three with the "vision". All cut down by whos'who of John Does? Hmmmmmm? Yeah, to have a spokeaman to stand up to the Bush/Cheney/Rice/Rumsfield/Ashcroft war machine.

Bobert

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Subject: RE: Harry Belafonte on L.K. show. Amazing!
From: Mark Clark
Date: 22 Oct 02 - 11:27 PM

Bobert, I confess I've never wondered about why Bobby and Martin and Malcolm were killed. I've always thought the reasons were pretty self evident.

From where I sit, Cheney/Bush/Shrub, et al., aren't actual leaders, they're just hired guns for the ruling oligarchy. Now Colin Powell may have had actual leadership potential which is probably why Belafonte was so disapointed in his capitulation.

- Mark

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Subject: RE: Harry Belafonte on L.K. show. Amazing!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 12:29 AM

It's realpolitik, guys. The sad thing is, as long as you vote for the Republicans or the Democrats you will get hired guns for the ruling oligarchy elected to rule over you. I see no way around it, because "money talks". It's most unfortunate. I'll say this though...the Republicans are usually even worse than the Democrats (I say this as a Canadian, observing from outside) so I suppose that is some sort of a choice...

But not a very good one. In most parts of the world those two parties would be regarded as the two halves of a "conservative" party of a very reactionary sort.

It's a game. If you vote, you choose to play it. If not, you're shut out of it. But it's just a game...the pretence of "democracy" in what is really a one party system to all intents and purposes. You see, in any given party there is always a "liberal" wing and a "conservative" wing. The liberals and conservatives in Soviet Russia's Communist Party were probably as far or farther apart in philosophy than the Democrats and Republicans are.

It's like voting for the New York Yankees or the Boston Red Sox...meaningful if you believe the hype or hold to the traditional loyalties of family and clan...virtually meaningless if you don't.

- LH

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Subject: RE: Harry Belafonte on L.K. show. Amazing!
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 01:59 AM

Reading the transcript, it appears to me that Belafonte was basically wrong, and should have apologised to Powell. That he stood his ground was admirable, as Rick points out, and that someone has the guts to speak out in an atmosphere of general cowering is fine, but as an argument, Larry King's main points were right. Simply because Belafonte disagrees with Powell (as I do) about Iraq, does not give Belafonte the right to argue that Powell and Rice are somehow betraying black people in general.Peter T

Once more, Peter has hit the nail square on the head. Harry's slaves-in-the-field, slaves-in-the-house was a cheap shot, and the fact that Harry was quite articulate in his defense of the comment doesn't change the nature of the statement. His comments remind me of the generalizations I hear about "liberals" who are undermining the system, who are foes of personal ambition and responsibility, etc. It's a way of classifying human beings so that they fit an existing preconception. It's a way of not having to think too hard, or come up with a rational argument to oppose them. "Colin Powell is an Uncle Tom, and we know what they're like." All the bullshit about the nobility of the black man's history as a slave was ridiculous...his comment was an implication that Powell was a groveller, and was nothing like a celebration of overcoming slavery.

Most of us have grown beyond the point of expecting black men and women to behave in a certain way. If we disagree, let's disagree about their ideas as we would any other human being, and not use their color as some political litmus test.

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Subject: RE: Harry Belafonte on L.K. show. Amazing!
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 09:44 AM

Good shots, PeterT and Lonesome... And by the way GUEST, I'm the Vocational Instruction Manager at the Harper Ferry Job Corps Center, and I and my Instructors work with 210 of the toughest kids to come out of the inner cities of Phila., Balt, Wash DC, Richmond, Norfolk and Pittsburg. On the staff of 75 I am the senior ranking white person of twenty non-African-Americans. While you and I will not "Know" what it means to be Black, you are indeed, the last person to be instructing me on the subject...

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Subject: RE: Harry Belafonte on L.K. show. Amazing!
From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 09:59 AM

If we are all Americans, why do we need to divide our political opinions down racial and ethnic lines?

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Subject: RE: Harry Belafonte on L.K. show. Amazing!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 11:49 AM

Well, LEJ, I guess I agree with you and Peter about that. It was a cheap shot. However, I am less concerned what Harry says personally about Colin Powell than what he says about the foreign policy position of the Bush administration and America's role in the world. That was the part I found interesting, and I think more time should have been spent on it than on dissecting a personal mudslinging match between 2 people (if a one-sided one). Network TV likes to get personal though, and they avoid serious analysis of issues if they can, probably assuming that the public hasn't got the attention span for stuff like that anyway.

Colin Powell is an interesting man. I'd be curious to know what he really thinks about what's going on. (And I don't mean what he thinks about Harry Belafonte's comments...I don't particularly care one way or the other about that...it's just gossip).

- LH

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Subject: RE: Harry Belafonte on L.K. show. Amazing!
From: DougR
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 12:20 PM

Gossip? It's "Just gossip?" Surely, LH, you jest. It's slanderous (IMO).

Why is it so difficult for you (and others) to accept the possibility that Colin Powell is in agreement with our foreign policy? It seems to me that if you don't, you side with Belafonte!

DougR

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Subject: RE: Harry Belafonte on L.K. show. Amazing!
From: mg
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 12:27 PM

it is not just gossip. It is very serious slander.

mg

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Subject: RE: Harry Belafonte on L.K. show. Amazing!
From: GUEST,Don Meixner
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 12:36 PM

Rick,

Interesting comments. I still recall the way he stole credit for Turn Around from Malvina Reynolds. Probably a share of the royalties too.
I have always admired Belafonte as a singer. My admiration ends there.

Passion misplaced is still passion, ( Field of Dreams?) and I admire guts. But was I thrilled with Harry? No in the least.

Don

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Subject: RE: Harry Belafonte on L.K. show. Amazing!
From: Peter T.
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 12:59 PM

What is the story around Turn Around, I missed that. One of my favourite songs, as Malvina is one of my heroines. yours, Peter T.

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