mudcat.org: Busking is begging?

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Busking is begging?

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Paul Davenport	21 Feb 10 - 01:11 PM
GUEST,ollaimh	21 Feb 10 - 07:17 PM
mousethief	21 Feb 10 - 07:43 PM
GUEST,Sue J	21 Feb 10 - 07:59 PM
Aeola	22 Feb 10 - 05:22 PM
Derby Ram	22 Feb 10 - 05:48 PM
GUEST,June	22 Feb 10 - 07:12 PM
meself	23 Feb 10 - 10:28 AM
GUEST,GUEST	17 Apr 10 - 04:35 PM
GUEST,guest	27 Apr 10 - 09:44 PM
GUEST,Cale Freemann	23 May 10 - 02:05 AM
GUEST,Busker Gal	14 Jun 10 - 07:27 AM
GUEST,Englishman	22 Nov 12 - 03:39 PM
Mark Ross	22 Nov 12 - 04:02 PM

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Subject: RE: Busking is begging?
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 01:11 PM

I think in UK that 'begging' is covered by the Vagrancy Act. In begging, under the act, the approach is for money and no service is offered. In the case of busking the service is provided gratis. The public can choose to engage with the service or to dismiss it. There is no confrontation, no threat and the risk is all on the part of the performer. The performer must NOT ask for, or request recompense. Definitely not begging.

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Subject: RE: Busking is begging?
From: GUEST,ollaimh
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 07:17 PM

i've busked for the better part of thirty years. for at least twenty full time. i do traditional celtic music and i have done lots of gigs and some folk festivals here and there but busking is so much funn and a lot less trouble. you don'thave to be hunting for work you don't need a roadie--although it would help. however you do have to deal with ignorant and difficult people, like those who think its begging!!!

you can't be a long time busker without learning to ignore the rednecks.most people are nice.

now i don't look down on begging its also an anciet and honourable occupation, but it's not mine. the people who see no difference are usually ignorant bigots. usually clalss bigots but sometimes with other axes to grind,however you ignore them, they are the ones carrying around their dark cloud, no need to help them.

busking is not beggin. for many it is an alternative occupation. a REAL JOB just an alternative one. you could train a monkey to do most people's jobs, but very few have the talent and creativity to regularily cage money on the street for a performance of any kind. especially to be able to get enough to pay the bills--that takes skill

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Subject: RE: Busking is begging?
From: mousethief
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 07:43 PM

Not a busker, let me say up front. But the idea that busking = begging is nuts. A busker is providing a service at no charge. If you don't pay he's not going to chase you down, or keep following you menacingly. It's a musical performance offered for free which you can pay for if you choose (and I very often do, even crossing the street if I can hear the music is good). I hope the buskers don't all go away, they make life more musical for all who happen past them and more musical is better better better. Thank you, all you buskers!

O..O
=o=

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Subject: RE: Busking is begging?
From: GUEST,Sue J
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 07:59 PM

In Liverpool in the early 1970s three busker friends(all good musicians) were arrested for begging, under the Vagrancy Act 1824. This was a law brought to deter begging by, mainly, disabled soldiers injured during the Napoleonic Wars. My friends were all members of the Musicians' Union and the Union's lawyers took up their case and won, arguing that this archaic law should not apply to buskers.

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Subject: RE: Busking is begging?
From: Aeola
Date: 22 Feb 10 - 05:22 PM

Again in Liverpool just a few years ago there was a chap who ''busked '', and I use the term loosely, in Paradise St./ Church St. area.He had a cardboard cutout of a guitar with strings painted on and he went thru' the motions using the word '' plink plink '' to sound out the tune. People gave him money!! I happened to be in court one day when he was before the Judge, accused of some misdemeaner. He apologised to the Judge and said his days were at an end because his guitar had got wet and was useless.He was presented with a wooden one and resumed his '' busking''. It did add character to the Street!! Oh I forgot , he did have some cardboard CD's for sale!! All true.

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Subject: RE: Busking is begging?
From: Derby Ram
Date: 22 Feb 10 - 05:48 PM

Busking, I mean REAL busking ie; having a real entertaining talent and sharing it with everyone that passes for potentially no reward, has to be the most submissive, passive and most honest form of exchange known to man and is morally heaps ahead of an apparently legitimate, bone-fide door to door direct salesman (whatever he's selling) or indeed the miserable passer by who clearly likes the music but doesn't offer anything in appreciation (who's legal right and freedom it is, of course, to do so at will).

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Subject: RE: Busking is begging?
From: GUEST,June
Date: 22 Feb 10 - 07:12 PM

In Seattle, busking is legally defined as begging, which is a good thing for musicians and may be one reason why Seattle has such a vibrant music scene. Since it's considered begging, you're allowed to do it. If you tried to sell shoelaces on the street, you'd need a permit, and good luck getting it! But you can support yourself, marginally, by playing music on the street, without anyone's permission. And there's nothing like busking on a daily basis to develop your skills.

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Subject: RE: Busking is begging?
From: meself
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 10:28 AM

Once saw a fellow playing on the street with a little hand-written sign that read, "Tone Deaf. Can't sing. No talent. Please help." Edmonton, Alberta.

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Subject: RE: Busking is begging?
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 04:35 PM

There has been a battle going on between the intellectually deprived and and the intellectually gifted ever since antiquity.

busking is most emphatically NOT begging.

the product buskers produce is intangible and intellectual in nature.

"Intellect is invisible to the man who has none." - Arthur Schopenhauer

i didnt invest so much time and money for my lessons and musical education to be classified as a beggar.

Please note that anonymous posting is no longer allowed at Mudcat. Use a consistent name [in the 'from' box] when you post, or your messages risk being deleted. Guest,guest is not an acceptable posting name - it has already been taken.
Thanks.
-Joe Offer-

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Subject: RE: Busking is begging?
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 27 Apr 10 - 09:44 PM

"What do you call those people who have pockets full of money, who watch a show from start to finish and then slink away at the end without paying anything? What right do they have to call anyone beggars?"

Alanabit i call them cheapskates and if they call me a beggar i call them niggardly cheapskates.
the love clown

Please remember to use one consistent name when you post. If you post under a variety of names, you risk having all your posts deleted. Guest,guest is still not an acceptable posting name - it has already been taken.
-Joe Offer-

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Subject: RE: Busking is begging?
From: GUEST,Cale Freemann
Date: 23 May 10 - 02:05 AM

Here in Australia busking is seen as a legitimate occupation requiring a tax file ABN, anyone who busks knows that busking is an honourable occupation with a very long and illustrious past, troubadours have been carrying the art of music for centuries, in many places in the world the busker is a revered figure and welcomed enthusiastically, my own experience tells me that rednecks and dickheads who have no talent other than to criticise are the only real problem, 99% of people are fine VIVA the ancient art of the Busker...........

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Subject: RE: Busking is begging?
From: GUEST,Busker Gal
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 07:27 AM

Busking is not begging. I've busked in the UK for 10 years and most of the people are fine. Buskers provide light entertainment for passers by and brighten up their day if only for a brief moment. People can chose whether or not they want to tip. Buskers come in all sorts of variarties and add colour and life to where they are perfroming. Some buskers have a loud speaker and are not very good and annoy people working near by. Most buskers are considerate and nice. Busking has helped me develop as a performer and I would like to thank all the people who support buskers, every little helps! :-)

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Subject: RE: Busking is begging?
From: GUEST,Englishman
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 03:39 PM

Busking is definitely not begging. Buskers offer a service in the hope of remuneration, but it is not asking for charity. Here in Derby a busker's licence is free but they have an audition to show they can actually entertain. I have seen some amazing buskers in Derby and will always give money if I feel they have earned it because I want them to continue to do so. How many husbands stand outside clothes shops while the wife and daughters spend hour upon hour trawling through every bloody item in the place? I would gladly pay a couple of quid to listen to them than the alternative.

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Subject: RE: Busking is begging?
From: Mark Ross
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 04:02 PM

When my partner (She Who Must Be Obeyed) was down in California shopping at a street fair, I hauled out my fiddle and a chair and sat myself down with an open case. After about 45 minutes one of the women from the antique store across the street came over and asked if I would move to the alcove of their establishment. I played there for another 2 hours, made about 40 bucks fiddling away, while SWMBO looked at everything for sale in Downtown Arcata. I have been busking now for over 45 years and I would never consider begging anyone to drop some money in the kitty. I might remind them that the long green is always appreciated, and I always ask the kids who drop in the change that their parents give them, "Is that your whole weeks allowance?"

Mark Ross

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