mudcat.org: What is the Digitrad?

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What is the Digitrad?

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GUEST	14 Sep 15 - 05:54 PM
maeve	14 Sep 15 - 06:13 PM
Susan of DT	15 Sep 15 - 07:03 AM
maeve	15 Sep 15 - 07:33 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle	15 Sep 15 - 11:59 AM
ChanteyLass	16 Sep 15 - 09:15 PM
GUEST	30 Jul 25 - 12:58 PM
DaveRo	31 Jul 25 - 05:57 AM
GUEST	31 Jul 25 - 03:18 PM
DaveRo	31 Jul 25 - 03:38 PM
GUEST	31 Jul 25 - 04:12 PM
GUEST	31 Jul 25 - 04:17 PM
DaveRo	31 Jul 25 - 04:39 PM
GUEST	31 Jul 25 - 04:59 PM
GUEST	31 Jul 25 - 05:03 PM
GUEST	31 Jul 25 - 05:07 PM
GUEST	31 Jul 25 - 05:10 PM
GUEST	31 Jul 25 - 05:16 PM
GUEST	31 Jul 25 - 05:19 PM
GUEST	31 Jul 25 - 05:29 PM
GUEST	31 Jul 25 - 05:33 PM
GUEST	31 Jul 25 - 05:38 PM
GUEST	31 Jul 25 - 05:43 PM
GUEST	31 Jul 25 - 06:05 PM
GUEST	31 Jul 25 - 06:06 PM
GUEST	31 Jul 25 - 06:15 PM
GUEST	31 Jul 25 - 07:33 PM
GUEST	31 Jul 25 - 07:40 PM
DaveRo	01 Aug 25 - 03:45 AM
DaveRo	01 Aug 25 - 06:44 AM

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Subject: What is the Digitrad?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Sep 15 - 05:54 PM

I remember getting some tunes here about 15 years ago from something called the "digitrad." I tried searching for it here a couple of times but only broke my computer(or the mudcat computer.) What is (or was) the digitrad and how do I get it? Can I download it?

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Subject: RE: What is the Digitrad?
From: maeve
Date: 14 Sep 15 - 06:13 PM

Welcome back, Guest. Here's a link from the menu at the top of this page: http://www.mudcat.org/AboutDigiTrad.cfm I expect some aspects of the link info are outdated, but it's a start.

There is a whole multitude of fine songs in there, with many more posted in the Forum awaiting addition to the DT. You can search the DT from any page of the forum, but many of us find using the filter (near top, main forum page)with specific words and time frame, or a google search, work best since the information is, as I mentioned, in the forum threads not (yet) in the DT.

Does that help?

Maeve

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Subject: RE: What is the Digitrad?
From: Susan of DT
Date: 15 Sep 15 - 07:03 AM

Yes, that is a bit out of date. We do not distribute it on disks any more. Both addresses are outdated. dick@camscomusic.com still works (or pm one of us), but the world standard com one is long gone.

No updates or corrections in a long time, due to technical difficulties with new operating systems, but I am currently working with Max to try to resolve them.

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Subject: RE: What is the Digitrad?
From: maeve
Date: 15 Sep 15 - 07:33 AM

Thank you, Susan. It will be good when the glitches are resolved. Your efforts are greatly appreciated!
Maeve

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Subject: RE: What is the Digitrad?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 15 Sep 15 - 11:59 AM

Dick, Susan, Max

Thank You,

$incerely,
Gargoyle

It is comforting to know...our own songs of comfort...continue.

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Subject: RE: What is the Digitrad?
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 09:15 PM

Thank you from me, too!

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Subject: RE: What is the Digitrad?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 25 - 12:58 PM

Help please. I have downloaded the Digitrad but don't know how to play the files.

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Subject: RE: What is the Digitrad?
From: DaveRo
Date: 31 Jul 25 - 05:57 AM

Guest: the downloadable Digitrad isn't a set of files which can be played with a modern media player. It's a program which ran on a PC under the DOS or early Windows operating system.

If you unzip the download you'll find another archive 'TUNES'. That contains a load of text files in the obsolete 'Songwrite' format.

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Subject: RE: What is the Digitrad?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 25 - 03:18 PM

Thanks but a search gave me this info and I am confused:

That's a very common misconception about ABC notation. It's actually a very much alive and actively used format, especially within certain music communities.

ABC notation is far from obsolete. In fact, its simplicity and text-based nature are its greatest strengths and the reason it continues to thrive.

Here's why:

It's a "lingua franca" for traditional music: ABC is the de facto standard for transcribing and sharing folk, traditional, and Celtic tunes online. Websites like The Session and hundreds of other tune archives are built on it. It allows musicians to share a tune via a simple copy-and-paste, which is much faster than creating and sharing an image file or a MIDI file.

It is not just a text file; it can be played: While the file you provided is just plain text, there are many modern software applications and online tools that can read ABC files, render them as sheet music, and play them back as an audio file (usually a MIDI or WAV). These "players" and editors are abundant and free.

Online Editors and Players: There are many browser-based ABC players and editors. You can simply paste your ABC text into a website, and it will instantly display the sheet music and allow you to play the tune. This is a great way to check for errors or hear what the music sounds like.

Dedicated Desktop Software: Many free and commercial programs exist for all operating systems (Windows, Mac, Linux) that allow you to manage large collections of tunes, edit them, and export them to other formats like PDF, MIDI, or MusicXML.

Integration with Other Software: Programs like LilyPond and MuseScore can import ABC files and convert them into high-quality, professional-looking sheet music. This makes ABC an excellent format for drafting tunes before doing final formatting.

Evolving Standard: The ABC standard is not static. It continues to be developed to handle more complex musical concepts like multi-voice music and advanced formatting, all while maintaining its core simplicity.

So, to answer your questions directly:

Is it an obsolete format? No, it is a very active, niche format for certain musical communities and is used as an interchange format for more complex music software.

Is there a player? Yes, there are many players, editors, and converters. You can easily find them by searching online for "ABC notation player," "ABC converter," or "ABC editor." You would simply copy the text from your file and paste it into one of these tools.

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Subject: RE: What is the Digitrad?
From: DaveRo
Date: 31 Jul 25 - 03:38 PM

Ask it how to convert a Songwrite file (not Songwrite 2 or 3) to an ABC file.

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Subject: RE: What is the Digitrad?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 25 - 04:12 PM

https://g.co/gemini/share/9636fe4666ba

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Subject: RE: What is the Digitrad?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 25 - 04:17 PM

OOPS! That last attempt is a mistake. Try this.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rgR3kfV7CzlVWu2sMXXREQsE7dKhPiW59E3-sk34Mq4/edit?usp=sharing

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Subject: RE: What is the Digitrad?
From: DaveRo
Date: 31 Jul 25 - 04:39 PM

That's quite a good answer. Personally I would't go via midi because you'd lose the metadata and have to add it in afterwards. I'd just write a program to do it.

But why bother? As your first AI answer correctly says there are dozens of collections of folk tunes in ABC. I doubt if there's anything in the DT not in several such collections.

https://abcnotation.com/tunePage?a=trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/abc/mirror/back.numachi.com/Acre_of_Land/0000

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Subject: RE: What is the Digitrad?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 25 - 04:59 PM

OK. I think the Gemini chatbot can be used to convert these files into something that is somehow of use. IDK maybe musescore of something that is being developed now but not quite ready. Someone might be able to train these bots to do this. It may say that it can't but it is willing to try to convert one file, then do all of the rest. It will probably require feeding each individually so as to be a workload it can handle. and also we need to have some avenues, some target programs we want to convert to. I do not know enough to do this unless I have suggestion for experiments.

What I will do now is continue to chat with the Gemini bot and I can publish the content of our chats and post links here to keep you updated. If you prefer we can start a new thread with the title "Updating the Digitrad" and I'll post everything there either in links to web pages published from Gemini or to google docs.

If you start that new thread, you might include this post as the OP and links that I have supplied you with up to now. Or just sum up what we have talked about up to now and I will meet you over there or stay here. Whatever. Let's see if we can do this.

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Subject: RE: What is the Digitrad?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 25 - 05:03 PM

You can also continue the chat on the published page but you then must get a shareable link at the bottom of the chat and post it here or in the new thread. A little bit awkward but probably better for people to converse with the bot about this than me. I would prefer this.

Here is the updated conversation with Gemini:
https://g.co/gemini/share/666b526afe11

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Subject: RE: What is the Digitrad?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 25 - 05:07 PM

Scroll down the page to get to the latest interaction. Here I fed a Songwrite file to the bot and it says that it has converted it to abc format. Is this correct? I would not know. But if we can get that far, it is one step towards the update.

https://g.co/gemini/share/5d7a86de0fdf

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Subject: RE: What is the Digitrad?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 25 - 05:10 PM

Mission Accomplished? I am able to both see and hear the file playing in EasyABC player.

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Subject: RE: What is the Digitrad?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 25 - 05:16 PM

Problem. It plays but the tempo is out of kilter because the score does not display any measure divisions.

https://g.co/gemini/share/fe591ccf3d49

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Subject: RE: What is the Digitrad?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 25 - 05:19 PM

OK. It corrected that error and it is playing at tempo now. Try the new code it generated for the EasyABC program.
https://g.co/gemini/share/a1ca0ea6657c

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Subject: RE: What is the Digitrad?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 25 - 05:29 PM

I tested Gemini to see if it could access this site and it was successful. This is very good for collaboration because we can reorganize the entire Digitrad along with the lyric archive using this AI.

https://g.co/gemini/share/00bd2aed1d01

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Subject: RE: What is the Digitrad?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 25 - 05:33 PM

OOPS! at the beginning of the chat I said to Gemini "Also, is there anyway that we could update this file to a modern format that will enable paying and listening to the music?"

I misspelled "playing" as "paying" LOL. It repeats my mistake and veers off at times to discussion about music distribution and paying royalties. We will get coordinated.

I should have written: "Also, is there anyway that we could update this file to a modern format that will enable PLAYING and listening to the music?"

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Subject: RE: What is the Digitrad?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 25 - 05:38 PM

Me: How should we proceed with this?

Gemini: Based on our conversation so far, I see a clear path forward for our project of transcribing the Mudcat Digitrad tunes.

A Proposed Plan

1. You provide the Songwrite file, one by one. This is the most crucial step. I need the text of the tune in the Songwrite format you've been providing.

2. I will translate the Songwrite notation into ABC notation. As we've learned, a literal, one-to-one conversion is not possible, so I will make an educated musical guess to create a playable ABC file with correct measure bars and time signatures.

3. You review the ABC file in your software (e.g., EasyABC). You'll need to check if the measure bars display correctly and if the general rhythm feels right for the song.

4. We will collaborate to refine the transcription. If the ABC notation doesn't sound right, you can provide feedback on specific parts, and I will adjust the notation accordingly. This is where our collaborative editing comes in.

5. We can use the Mudcat.org forum as a resource. If we get stuck on a difficult part of a melody, we can search the forum for discussions about that specific tune. I can help with a targeted search to see if someone has already posted a transcription or has information that would help us decipher the Songwrite file.

This process will allow us to create a modern, playable version of each tune while working around the limitations of the obsolete file format.

So, whenever you're ready, please provide the next Songwrite file you'd like to work on, and we can start the transcription process.

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Subject: RE: What is the Digitrad?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 25 - 05:43 PM

This is the conversion of the first song listed in the Digitrad archive - ACRELAND

X:1
T:An Acre of Land
C:
M:6/8
L:1/8
Q:1/4=100
K:F
|: F3 D2E | F G A G A B | A2 G F2 D | E2 F3 |

Download the program EasyABC, copy and paste this code in the player and you should hear and see a reasonably good rendition of this melody.

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Subject: RE: What is the Digitrad?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 25 - 06:05 PM

Me: Using EasyABC, how can I export the file to midi and MusicXML?

Gemini: That's a great question, and exporting to MIDI and MusicXML is an essential step for using your transcribed melodies in other music software.

Based on the documentation for EasyABC, here is a step-by-step guide on how to export your file to both formats:

### **To Export to MIDI**

EasyABC automatically creates a temporary MIDI file whenever you use the play function. To save it permanently:

1. From the top menu, go to **File**.
2. Select **Export MIDI**.
3. A dialogue box will appear, allowing you to choose a location and a filename to save your MIDI file.

### **To Export to MusicXML**

MusicXML is a standard format for music notation that can be opened by programs like MuseScore and Sibelius.

1. Ensure you have the correct tune displayed in EasyABC. If you have multiple tunes in one file, you may need to select the one you want to export.
2. Go to the File menu.
3. Select **Export Selected** (or "Export All" if you want to export a collection of tunes).
4. Choose **as MusicXML** from the options.
5. Save the file to your desired location.

This process will create files that you can then import into other music notation or digital audio workstation (DAW) software, allowing you to hear the music with different instruments, edit it further, or create a full score.

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Subject: RE: What is the Digitrad?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 25 - 06:06 PM

https://g.co/gemini/share/b31cfd1d6cdf

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Subject: RE: What is the Digitrad?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 25 - 06:15 PM

Problem exporting to midi or MusicXML.

https://g.co/gemini/share/7f5fe0ce9548

PLEASE NOTE THAT THE GEMINI CHAT IS NOT A GROUPCHAT. YOU CAN CONTINUE THE CHAT ONLY WITH GEMINI AND YOU MUST POST THE CURRENT UP-TO-DATE LINK FOR ANYONE ELSE TO SEE WHAT YOU HAVE CONVERSED ABOUT.

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Subject: RE: What is the Digitrad?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 25 - 07:33 PM

I am still trying to get to the next step - Export as .midi or MusicXML

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpS2cElh3cw

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Subject: RE: What is the Digitrad?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 25 - 07:40 PM

This is the ABC Transcription Tool. This is supposed to convert .abc files to .MusicXML for uploading into Musescore.
https://michaeleskin.com/abctools/abctools.html

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Subject: RE: What is the Digitrad?
From: DaveRo
Date: 01 Aug 25 - 03:45 AM

The Gemini links are dead this morning (I'm in the UK) so for anyone trying to follow this, here's the Songwrite file (extracted on this Android device):

N-An Acre of Land
C-
A-
T-
S-100
K-F
B-6/8
F-
H-
M-5R-2 R-8 a-8 F-4 F-8 F-4 a-0 a-0 F-9 F-0 F-8 F-5 c-5 c-4 b-8 a-4 b-8 c-4 c-8
L- My fa- ther left me an a- cre of land, I- vy, sing i- ve- ry, My
H-
M-5d-4 d-8 b-8 c-8 d-8 c-8 d-8 b-8 a-5 F-4 G-8 a-8 b-8 a-8 a-8 G-8 F-8 D-4 E-8 F-4 R-8 R-5
L- fa- ther left me an a- cre of land, And a bunch of green ho;-ly and i- ve- ry.
H-
M-5R-3 R-3 R-3 R-3 R-3
L-

It's longer than the ABC posted above. It looks like the same tune as the link I posted in abcnotation.com - it starts A F F F A which the ABC doesn't.

Curiously, the Acre of Land in the FolkInfo database (see this recent thread, which I thought was derived from DT, is different:
https://folkinfo.mainlynorfolk.info/songs/19.html

I suggest that for the conversion to be deemed successful all parts of the Songwrite file must be correctly included in the ABC.

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Subject: RE: What is the Digitrad?
From: DaveRo
Date: 01 Aug 25 - 06:44 AM

Don't think of ABC as just an interchange format. To quote Gemini's first answer: "It's a "lingua franca" for traditional music." MusicXML is not a 'better' target for your conversion.

See this thread started by Joe Offer. (You should email him for a username, btw):
Tech: New standard needed for posting melodies

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