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How does my capo change my key

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Bill D	23 Aug 07 - 12:06 PM
Cluin	23 Aug 07 - 01:24 PM
Jack Campin	23 Aug 07 - 06:17 PM
McGrath of Harlow	23 Aug 07 - 06:32 PM
Marje	24 Aug 07 - 01:08 PM
Jack Campin	24 Aug 07 - 01:43 PM
Marje	25 Aug 07 - 02:33 AM
Big Al Whittle	25 Aug 07 - 06:52 PM

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Subject: RE: How does my capo change my key
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 12:06 PM

do note that this is a 3 year old thread, refreshed by 2 posts with no content

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Subject: RE: How does my capo change my key
From: Cluin
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 01:24 PM

Somebody's been digging around in the stacks and didn't pick up after themselves. The librarian is gonna be pissed off.

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Subject: RE: How does my capo change my key
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 06:17 PM

I have to solve the opposite problem a lot of the time: when a singer is starting off with their own guitar accompaniment, if I'm to join in, what key should I try? - I usually have a pile of woodwind instruments that can handle any key between them.

You look at the fret they've capoed to. For no capo it'll be G, C, E minor or A minor. Every fret up takes that set of possibilities up another semitone, so e.g. 4th fret is B, E, G# minor or C# minor.
If the guitarist is using DADGAD tuning, it'll be the same set of possibilities but a tone higher to start with. Usually I have time to sort out what instrument I'm going to use in between them setting their capo and starting to play.

Only the most clueless singer/guitarists will use wildly exotic keys, but they're the ones that need a supporting accompaniment most often.

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Subject: RE: How does my capo change my key
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 06:32 PM

A tuner that works through a little microphone (rather than the ones that work by reading the vibrations in the wood of the instrument) is a good way of identifying what key people are playing in. (It's also good for working out what is the most comfortable key in which to to sing a song.)

Only the most clueless singer/guitarists will use wildly exotic keys Not at all - if you feel most comfortable singing a song in A#, for example, a guitar playing singer will very likely play in G and capo up three frets. Nothing exotic about it. Much better than singing in some key where the notes don't fall easy, just in order to make it easier to play accompaniments. Singing comes first, the accompaniment is secondary. Important, but the accompanist has to be ready to adjust to the needs of the singer. (Even when it's the same person accompanying themself.)

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Subject: RE: How does my capo change my key
From: Marje
Date: 24 Aug 07 - 01:08 PM

Quite right, Malcolm - there's always an optimim key for a song (for a given singer) and that may not be one that suits other musicians. If a musician wants to join in or add an accompaniment, why not ask the singer what key they're using before they start? Then if they want you to accompany them, they may agree to go up or down a semitone to accommodate another instrument; if they won't change, the choice of an "exotic" key may be a deliberate ruse to put other musicians off.

Marje

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Subject: RE: How does my capo change my key
From: Jack Campin
Date: 24 Aug 07 - 01:43 PM

The situation I had in mind was one where a singer comes into a session where it's usual for songs to be accompanied by all sorts of instruments (which means zero to three sharps is the territory in common). Insisting on E flat is just silly in that situation, no folk song covers such a wide range that D would be impossible.

With singers who don't bring their own guitars, I've seen it happen that they insist on an E flat to start, somebody gives them a D instead, and they never notice.

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Subject: RE: How does my capo change my key
From: Marje
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 02:33 AM

Point taken, Jack - I'm not familiar with this sort of session. In the sessions I go to, there are only a few songs and they're generally either a capella or accompanied mainly/only by the singer, possibly with a friend or partner. The other musicians tend to sit back and listen, or ignore it and use the break go to the bar. There are a few well known songs that other instrumentalists will join in, but that's the exception rather than the rule.

Marje

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Subject: RE: How does my capo change my key
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 06:52 PM

"Well, for one thing, if you look at O'Neill's Music of Ireland, there are many beautiful airs and songs in flat keys"

yes and Chuck Berry wrote Promised Land in E flat.

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