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Subject: RE: Blues Lyrics Translation From: Bobert Date: 23 Jan 09 - 06:39 PM Never heard of a "notion sack", Jayto... Thanks... If its okay with you I'll throw it into the my mix of stories I tell when I perform... Were'd you hear about that one... Don't know how it could have escaped me but then again... B~ |
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Subject: RE: Blues Lyrics Translation From: Jayto Date: 23 Jan 09 - 06:49 PM Yeah that is fine Bobert. I live in wstrn Kentucky and it is a real popular saying around here. The rest of my family are all from Alabama (my g-grandparents moved to ky when my grandmother was in high school). It is a popular saying down there as well. Notion's come in half form as well. "I have half a notion to shut that heckler up." means you are about ready to deal with the heckler and it wouldn't take much to make you go off. It is almost like a warning. Most of the times when someone says "I have half a notion" that means they are just looking for a reason because you have pretty much made up your mind you are going to do it. Is anyone on here from Alabama and have heard this as much as I have. Huntsville area is where I have heard it the most down there. Ky you hear it everywhere all the time. |
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Subject: RE: Blues Lyrics Translation From: Jayto Date: 23 Jan 09 - 06:58 PM Oh notion sack sorry I used to hear alot of old timers talk about it most of the time in a joking manner. They would laugh about having to add funds to thier notion sack when they would get mad at thier wives lol. Notion is still popular but notion sack not so much. I think because of the economy right now noone has mony to put in a notion sack. Also the old men that really had a notion sack kept it a secret from thier wives or girlfriends like a secret saving account. This is really supported by the way I remember them joking about adding money when they had arguments with thier other half. "If that woman doesn't lay off of me I am going to grab my notion sack and run." as an example. Mad money is another name in west KY for this type of hidden savings. You are saving it to make a "mad dash" from police or your girlfriend or wife lol. This is another old term not really used much and when it is used it is usally by older men. This stuff fascinates me so if you have any other questions let me know. cya JT |
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Subject: RE: Blues Lyrics Translation From: Bobert Date: 23 Jan 09 - 08:01 PM Yeah, we got "notion" 'round these parts... Purdy popular phrase... Then agian my wife is from North Carolina an' she got more notions that Carter has liver pills... I mean, she is tore up Carolina... "I gotta a notion that this here toaster is fixin to break"...lol... But back to this "notion sack"... Is this a Kin-tuck thing and if'n ya' don't mind me askin' does it come from black 'er white folks, 'er both... Don't matter much 'casue I love the term but seein' as I try to keep my stories historically accurate, I like to know as much about the stuff I talk about as I can... I mean, it sounds both balck and maybe Appilacian??? I donno but, no matter, it's gonna find it's way into my stories... B~ |
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Subject: RE: Blues Lyrics Translation From: Jayto Date: 23 Jan 09 - 08:13 PM I think it is more than a Kentucky thing. I have spent alot of time in Louisiana and I encountered the notion sack down there as well. In Louisiana it was mainly black but in Ky it is used by whites and blacks. In Ky it is only older men I heard though. It is heavily generational very heavy. I have heard younger people use it but only in reference to older men "That set him off good. He'll go grab his notion sack and vanish for a while." might be said if an old man got mad at a younger man an stormed off. I rarely hear it anymore though. I heard it the most about about 20 yrs ago when I was about 16. That is when I started hanging around groups of old men (70+) that were showing me how to play guitar and teaching me the old local folk songs. Good phrase but it seems to be going away. |
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Subject: RE: Blues Lyrics Translation From: Bobert Date: 23 Jan 09 - 08:51 PM Thanks... Yeah, some stuff goes away an' then pops up elswhere.... Think I'm gonna write a song entitled "Notion Sack Blues"... Really works for what I do... B~ |
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Subject: RE: Blues Lyrics Translation From: Bob the Postman Date: 23 Jan 09 - 09:01 PM If you took a notion to light off for the nations, would you take your nation sack or your notion sack? Or both? |
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Subject: RE: Blues Lyrics Translation From: Bobert Date: 23 Jan 09 - 09:28 PM Thanks... Needed that hurt-yer-head fir the night...lol... |
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Subject: RE: Blues Lyrics Translation From: GUEST,Lovesbarbque Date: 02 Apr 09 - 02:02 PM I heard over 40 years ago that a Mojo was a mummified monkey hand, full of magical power. |
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Subject: RE: Blues Lyrics Translation From: GUEST Date: 28 May 09 - 06:44 AM What does it mean to "Wear my apron low" as in the song "careless love" et al????? |
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Subject: RE: Blues Lyrics Translation From: s&r Date: 28 May 09 - 12:16 PM Pregnant. Stu |
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Subject: RE: Blues Lyrics Translation From: Joe Offer Date: 28 May 09 - 02:02 PM Well, I'm not sure it's ever been explained directly to me, but I'm pretty sure it's just the opposite of what Stu says. In Careless Love, "wearing her apron low" means having a figure that allows her to wear her apron around her hips. When she's pregnant, the apron won't fit. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: Blues Lyrics Translation From: Richie Date: 28 May 09 - 03:11 PM Joe's right: Love, oh love, my careless love, Love, oh love, my careless love. Love, oh love, oh careless love, Oh look what careless love has done. Once I wore my apron low, Once I wore my apron low. Once I wore my apron low, I could not keep you from my door. Now my apron strings won't pin, Now my apron strings won't pin. Now my apron strings won't pin, You pass my door and won't come in. Richie |
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Subject: RE: Blues Lyrics Translation From: Leadbelly Date: 29 May 09 - 02:58 PM Explanation of "salty dog" leads me to the question what a "hot dog" is! Ein heisser Schwanz?? |
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Subject: RE: Blues Lyrics Translation From: Jayto Date: 29 May 09 - 05:43 PM I sure wish I had me a notion sack full of mad money lol. I have a notion to roam just don't have the notion sack that would support it lol. I knew one old man that would flash his secret money stash to all the guys and hide it when is wife came around. One day this other old man got tired of him flashing it and smacked his hand and the money went everywhere. His wife was coming in when it all happened so he freaked out. he had been telling her he was dead broke but wasn't. Another part that was funny was when the money went flying the big wad of cash wasn't all cash. It was about 4 $100 dollar bills then wrapped around a bunch of ones. Then the ones was wrapped around newspaper that had been cut to the size of bills. It was funny. He still had cash but not near as much as he had been claiming. He played an old Martin D45 pre-war if I remember. It may have been a D18 can't really recall I am not good with models. When he passed on his son (that none of us knew about) got the guitar and sold it to George Gruhn in Nashville Tennessee. I remember I played a gig in Arkansas one time and that old man came and slept in his car. After about 3 days he smelled so bad a friend of mine made him go into his room and shower. He was probably 85 at the time and originally came from Harlan in eastern Kentucky. He played fiddle as well. He taught me the song nine pound hammer one time yrs ago in Mortons Gap Ky. He found out I would hang out on the street corner in Mortons Gap (pop 700 at best) and pick gutiar all night every night. So he started coming up because all the guys told him I liked to play the older stuff. We spent many hours sitting by the Coal Miner Memorial statue there in Mortons Gap picking old songs that will probably never be played again. I really miss him. In his mind I would still be a kid (I am in my 30's) and I know he would still be showing me the old stuff like I didn't know how to hit a lick. I don't mean to ramble this thread just brought up some great memories I haven't thought of in a while. Those memories and the knowledge I gained from hanging with guys like him is the reason I play music. it is the reason I chose folk music. To me they are what it is about. Sorry for the lengthy ramble. I think my cousin Eddie Pennington recorded him before he passed away. I am going to have to find out for sure. If he did I am going to get it. If anyone wants a copy of a real deal Appalachian folk artist it was him and I would be happy to send an mp3 to anyone that wants it if I can get it. cya JT |
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Subject: RE: Blues Lyrics Translation From: Azizi Date: 31 May 09 - 08:36 AM Here's another definition for "nation sack": "Dr. Oakroot" on the other hand says: "I have to disagree with you about "nations sack." [Robert] Johnson says, "I've taken the last nickel out of her nations sack." What's a nickel doing in a lucky charm (OK, it could happen, money does have magical power). However, "nation" is short for "donation". Originally, nation sacks were worn on the belts of traveling preachers to hold the donations they collected. This fashion accessory was picked up by prostitutes along the Mississippi R. who wore it under their skirts and between the legs where the jingle of coins would attract the attension of prospective customers." Thanks to "Dr. Oakroot" for this contribution to the list. ___________ This phrase can be found in: Robert Johnson, Come On In My Kitchen (Take 1) http://blueslyrics.tripod.com/blueslanguage.htm |
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Subject: RE: Blues Lyrics Translation From: Richie Date: 31 May 09 - 11:34 AM Hey Jayto, I'd like an MP3. BTW I'm in Kentucky now, I'll be playing at the Kentucky Hall-of Fame Museum in Renfro Valley June 20. Come by and pick a few tunes with us if you want. Richie |
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Subject: RE: Blues Lyrics Translation From: GUEST Date: 01 Jun 09 - 02:28 AM I am going to call Eddie this week and ask him about the recordings. I am sure he has them and if he does I am going to get them and I will send them to you. Welcome to Ky man. I hope you enjoy it. I will have to check my schedule but I would love to. I am not too far from there. I am playing in Lexington this Saturday at the Green Latern. I am opening for Bawn in the Mash and it will be a great show.Bawn is a very talented band from Paducah. We are good freinds so I know it will be fun. If your not doing anything you should come out. cya JT |
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Subject: RE: Blues Lyrics Translation From: Jayto Date: 01 Jun 09 - 02:29 AM Sorry that last post was mine. I didn't realize I wasn't logged in. |
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Subject: RE: Blues Lyrics Translation From: Jayto Date: 01 Jun 09 - 02:45 AM I just checked and it's further than I thought but if you are serious I will be there. Just let me know. It's about 4 hrs away but I will come if you mean it. cya JT |
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Subject: RE: Blues Lyrics Translation From: Jayto Date: 01 Jun 09 - 12:03 PM Oh yeah Azizi that is cool when I read your latest post. I noticed that there is a money connection between the def you posted and the description I gave. Funny how things vary from place to place and over time but common themes of it stay the same. Money is connecting thing on the terms that is cool. cya JT |
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Subject: RE: Blues Lyrics Translation From: Azizi Date: 01 Jun 09 - 12:21 PM Hey, JT! Your post causes me to have a notion to repeat a well worn saying: "People throughout the world are more alike than we are different". |
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Subject: RE: Blues Lyrics Translation From: GUEST,Keith Date: 06 Nov 09 - 02:02 AM Dime stores sold notions, small items like thread and butttons. Perhaps "sundries" is a better known term for notions. I always assumed a notion sack was a container for notions. |
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Subject: RE: Blues Lyrics Translation From: GUEST,me Date: 14 Feb 10 - 09:28 PM what does "breakin in on a dollar" mean? |
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Subject: RE: Blues Lyrics Translation From: GUEST,Guest Date: 23 Feb 11 - 09:04 AM I'm about to have a tattoo from walkin blues lyrics "some people tell me that worried blues ain't bad. It's the worst old feeling I most ever had" But first i have to figure out what this means "She got a Elgin movement from her head down to her toes Break in on a dollar most anywhere she goes" can somebody tell me, please? I heard that the translation to the word blues is syphilis. Is it true? |
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Subject: RE: Blues Lyrics Translation From: Jim Dixon Date: 27 Feb 11 - 02:30 PM "Elgin movement" is probably a reference to the Elgin brand of watches, which were reputed to be of high quality. I can't explain the rest of your quote. I think, even before there was a genre of music called "the blues", "blues" simply meant a feeling of sadness, melancholia, or depression. I doubt that there is any specific connection to syphilis. |
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Subject: RE: Blues Lyrics Translation From: Joe_F Date: 08 Aug 11 - 11:38 AM Another (not very coherent) theory about "stavin' chain": In "Popular Songs vs. the Facts of Life" (_Etc.: A Review of General Semantics_ 12(2), 83-95, 1955; reprinted in several anthologies), S. I. Hayakawa says: "I am indebted to Dr. Russell Meyers of the University of Iowa Hospitals for the following observation about Jelly Roll Morton's 'Winin' Boy Blues,' in which there occurs the line, 'Pick it up and shake it, life's sweet stavin' chain.'[footnoted] Dr. Meyers equates this line to Herrick's 'Gather ye rosebuds while ye may,' translating thus: 'A "stavin' chain" is the heavy chain used by loggers to bind together logs to be floated down river, so that it is metaphorically that which binds together, i.e., sexuality; the idea is, as in Herrick, that you shake it now, while you are still able.'" Yes, that is the same Hayakawa who wrote books about semantics, put on a beret & broke the student strike at San Francisco State, and served a term in the US Senate, during which he was renowned chiefly for falling asleep in committee meetings. I was a fan of his in my adolescence, and read his essay when it first came out. His essay, which made him unpopular with the music industry of the day, still has a certain charm IMO, and I will see if I can make it available here. |
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Subject: RE: Blues Lyrics Translation From: PHJim Date: 08 Aug 11 - 07:47 PM I'd guess that "break in on a dollar" means just that, having to break a dollar because you don't have change. - just a guess. I once read a book about Voodoo (Hoodoo) where a mojo was described as a charm; a small bag that contained things like nail clippings, pubic hair, herbs, roots, black cats' paws, etc. They were used as charms for good luck, love, getting rid of enemies depending on the contents. |
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Subject: RE: Blues Lyrics Translation From: GUEST,mary Date: 16 Oct 11 - 07:58 AM I knew a Rick Curtis in Indiana who did this with "mama mama come and look at sis,she down on the levy,doin'the double twist""sister,sister,you dirty little sow,tryin to be a bad girl,but she don't know how" Love this song,but it is a little difficult from a gender point of view for me to do;just sing it for myself. |
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Subject: RE: Blues Lyrics Translation From: Joe_F Date: 31 Oct 11 - 04:59 PM An update on my posting about Professor Hayakawa on 11 Aug 11: I have managed to get the essay in hardcopy, but it seems to be unavailable in machine-readable form. If anyone is seriously interested in it, I'll be glad to snailmail a photocopy. Meanwhile, I will summarize its contents here. Hayakawa was a jazz & blues fan. However, he was not an admirer of the words to the blues as poetry. Near the end of the essay, he says "while there is lyricism to be found in blues _tunes_ and their musical treatment, the _words_ of blues songs are notoriously lacking in either lyricism of delicacy of sentiment...". Nevertheless, this essay is devoted to praising those indelicate words, not as poetry, but as realistic descriptions of life & love, in contrast to the commercial popular songs of the time (1955), which "tend toward wishful thinking, dreamy and ineffectual nostalgia, unrealistic fantasy, self-pity, and sentimental cliches masquerading as emotion" and "exhibit grave, even pathological, intensional [that's general-semantics jargon] orientations". (He admits that he does not know enough about white folk music to include it in the comparison.) Copious examples of such songs, and contrasting ones of the blues, and given and explicated. * I had the damnedest time finding this thread again. The Mudcat search does not see it. I had to use Google to find my posting, write down the threadid, and bring it up in my browser. Why? |
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