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Lyr Req: Der Lindenschmied - in English
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Subject: der lindenschmied From: Roberto Date: 15 Apr 06 - 10:49 AM I'd like to get a translation of this German traditional song and news about it. Hope Wolfgang is around... |
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Subject: Lyr Add: DER LINDENSCHMIED (German) From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 15 Apr 06 - 01:27 PM I'm always interested in things in German, but this song is too challenging for me. Here's a link to it: http://ingeb.org/Lieder/esistnic.html I'm also interested in unusual combinations of consonants. There's one in verse 2 - Gsellen. Lyrics copy-pasted from the link cited above. Der Lindenschmied nach einem fliegenden Blatt 1500
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Subject: RE: der lindenschmied From: Roberto Date: 15 Apr 06 - 02:12 PM Thank you, "leeneia". I had already seen that site. Good, but no information on the song. And no translation, as well. I'd like to know if there are cds with German songs from the XVI century (beside the two on Folkways)... |
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Subject: RE: der lindenschmied From: alanabit Date: 15 Apr 06 - 02:22 PM It looks very interesting. I have not got time to do much with it at the moment, yet alone translate it. I am in the middle of moving into a new home! Still, by the time I return to this thread, I expect someone with more knowledge of the folklore and incomparably better German will have had a go. |
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Subject: RE: der lindenschmied From: Reinhard Date: 15 Apr 06 - 07:00 PM I didn't know this folk tale yet. But I understand that the Lindenschmied (literally lime-tree smith) was a robber baron or a highwayman in Baden (then a county in South West Germany) about 1490 who finally got caught in an inn by Casper von Frundsberg and was tried and sentenced to death in Baden (the capital of Co. Baden). Leeneia: Gsell is a Bavarian dialect abbreviation of Geselle, i.e. craftsman. G(e)sellen is the plural form. Roberto: My favourite CD published in the last year is "Königskinder" by German duo Deitsch (Gudrun Walther and Jürgen Treyz) with the most wonderful rendering of traditional German songs. Highly recommended! |
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Subject: RE: der lindenschmied From: Roberto Date: 16 Apr 06 - 03:57 AM Thank you, Reinhard. I've just sent an e-mail to buy the cd you suggest. R |
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Subject: RE: der lindenschmied From: GUEST,Jim McLean Date: 16 Apr 06 - 06:06 PM Roberto, I'll translate it for you if no one does in the meantime. A 'Geselle' does not neccessary mean a crafsman as it is used to mean a fellow or just a person as 'jung Geselle', a bit of a lad. |
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Subject: RE: der lindenschmied From: Susanne (skw) Date: 16 Apr 06 - 07:27 PM I'll try and have a go later today. Not that much time, though, so don't hold your breath! |
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Subject: RE: der lindenschmied From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 16 Apr 06 - 11:16 PM Thank you for the information, Reinhard. It makes the song much clearer. It certainly helps to know that Baden is a place name here. |
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Subject: RE: der lindenschmied From: Kaleea Date: 17 Apr 06 - 12:10 AM When in Music school, I often was given lieder & expected to be able to vocalize the emotion of the lyrics. I found that I often better understood the lyrics than some of the profs, cause I'd go to the library & do the old fashioned word by word dictionary thing. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: DER LINDENSCHMIED From: Roberto Date: 17 Apr 06 - 03:47 AM The recording of the song that I got is from LEIPZIGER FOLKSESSION Vol. 2 RÄUBERLIEDER DER LINDENSCHMIED. Here is the German text from an internet site, and a note on the song: 1. Es ist nit lang, daß es geschah, Daß man den Lindenschmied reiten sah Auf einem hohen Rosse Er reit' den Rheinstrom auf und ab Hat sein gar wohl genossen, ja genossen 2. Frisch auf, ihr lieben Gesellen mein Es soll und muß gewaget sein Wagen das tut gewinnen Wir wollen reiten Tag und Nacht Bis wir ein Beut gewinnen, ja gewinnen 3. Junker Casper rüstet sein Bäuerlein Und schickt ihn allzeit über den Rhein Wohl auf die freie Straßen Daß er den edlen Lindenschmied fänd Denselben sollt er verraten, ja verraten 4. Das Bäuerlein schiffet über den Rhein Zu Frankental kehrt er ins Wirtshaus ein «Wirt, haben wir nichts zu essen? Es kommen drei Wagen vollbeladen Von Frankfurt aus der Messen, ja Messen» 5. Der Wirt der sprach zum Bäuerlein: «Es gibt genug an Brot und Wein Denn im Stall da stehn drei Rosse Die sind dem edlen Lindenschmied Er nährt sich auf freier Straßen, ja Straßen» 6. Das Bäuerlein dacht in seinem Mut Die Sache die wird werden gut Den Feind hab ich vernommen Alsgleich er Junker Casper schrieb Daß er sollt eilends kommen, ja kommen 7. Junker Casper zu der Stuben eintrat Der Lindenschmied von Herzen erschrak «Lindenschmied gib die gefangen! Zu Baden an dem Galgen hoch Daran so sollst du hangen, ja hangen!» 8. Der Lindenschmied war ein freier Mann Wie gleich er zu der Klingen sprang: «Wir wöllen erst ritterlich fechten!» Doch es waren der Bluthunde allzu viel Die schlugen ihn zur Erden, ja Erden 9. Sie wurden alle nach Baden gebracht Und saßen nit länger denn eine Nacht Wohl zu derselbigen Stunde Da ward der Lindenschmied gehenkt Sein Sohn und all die Jungen, ja Jungen Nach einer wahren Begebenheit um 1490. Mit Junker Kasper soll der seinerzeit berühmte Casper von Frundsberg gemeint sein. Belegt ist das Lied aus Basel frühestens 1610. Melodie um 1540. Thank you for the offer to translate that. R |
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Subject: RE: der lindenschmied From: GUEST Date: 18 Apr 06 - 05:17 AM Just a single refresh. R |
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Subject: RE: der lindenschmied From: Jim McLean Date: 18 Apr 06 - 12:47 PM Roberto, thisis the best I can do as I learned my German in Bavaria in 1959. I hope it helps and I'm sure one of our German speakers will fill in the gaps and make corrections. It wasn't long ago that this occurred, That the LindenSchmied was seen riding, On a high horse. He rode the Rhine stream up and down Which he obviously enjoyed. Rise up, fresh, you dear companions of mine, ------ Dare to win all, We'll ride day and night Until we win some booty Junker Casper mobilised his peasant (vassal?) And sent him right away over the Rhine Over all the free roads To find the noble LindenShmied Whom he should betray. The peasant (vassal?) sailed over the Rhine To the Franken valley where he went into an inn. "Landlord, have we nothing to eat? Three well loaded wagons are coming From the Fair in Frankfurt" The Landlord spoke to the peasant "There is enough bread and wine In the stable there are three horses Which belong to the noble LindenSchmied He feeds off the free roads." The peasant thought, courageously Everything was going well I have caught the enemy And at the same time he wrote to Junker Casper That he should come quickly. Junker entered the room in the inn Lindenschmied took fright "Lindenschmied you are captured! You shall hang on the gallows in Baden" The Lindenschmied was a free man And sprang to his sword "We shall first fight like knights" But the bloodhounds were too many And they beat him to the ground. They were all taken to Baden And stayed not longer than one night, And in the same hour the Lindenshmied, His son and all the boys (retainers or fellow thieves?) Were hung. After a true happening around 1490. Casper Junker was supposed to be the famous Casper of Frundsberg The earliest occurrence of the song is 1610, in Basel. The melody dates from 1540. |
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Subject: RE: der lindenschmied From: Wolfgang Date: 18 Apr 06 - 01:58 PM It is very difficult to translate, for some of the expressions are not known today. I have to guess at parts. I translate the short version (Roberto's): It is not long ago that it happened that one saw the limesmith riding on a high horse. He rode up and down the river Rhine and had a lot of benefit from it (I guess 'sein' refers to the Rhine; trade routes were close to the banks of the Rhine, so it would be a good choice of ground for a highwayman) Let's go, my dear fellows (LS adressing his co-robbers) and let's dare it for who dares, wins let's ride by day and night 'til we win a prize/booty (rich pickings). Junker (young nobleman) Casper (von Frundsberg, or: Freundsberg, in other sites) prepares his peasant (the diminutive is meant disparagingly) and sends him at the other side of the Rhine to the free streets* to find the noble limesmith to betray him. *It seems that the Lindenschmied did his robbing mostly at the left bank of the Rhine which did not belong to the count of Baden. The left side of the Rhine is called here "the free streets". The right side belonged to the count of Baden and he was responsible for the safe journey of the people. The Lindenschmied sometimes went over to the other side of the river and did "ins Gleit gefallen" (verse 3, in leeneia's version). Gleit is of course today Geleit and the expression means that he did some of his robbings in the 'protectorate' of the count, fleeing after that to the free side. The Count obviously didn't like the transgressions on his country and that's why he ordered to capture the Lindenschmied. The place where he was caught, Frankenthal, is on the left side, the place where he was executed, Baden is on the right side. So the Lindenschmied seems to have been captured by men of the count of Baden in a part of the country that did not belong to him. It was a kind of clandestine out of area kidnapping. The man must have been quite surprised for he felt obviously safe on the left side. The peasant traveled by ship over the Rhine and went into an inn in Frankenthal. "Landlord, don't you(we) have something to eat? Three carriages full of goods will come from the Frankfurt fair." (the bait!) The landlord spoke to the peasant: "There's enough of bread and wine for in the stable there are three horses belonging to the noble Limesmith who feeds (preys) on the free streets." The peasant thought by himself: " Everything goes fine (the case will be good) I've spied (heard) the enemy." As soon as possible he did write to Junker Casper that he should come as quick as possible. Junker Casper entered the room and the limesmith got frightened in his heart. "Limesmith, deliver yourself prisoner ("die" must be "Dich" in that line) for in Baden at the gallows high you shall hang. The limesmith was a free man when he grabbed quickly his blade. "First, let us fight/fence chivalrously" But there were too many of the bloodhounds (Bluthunde: very old for people following the trail of someone) they knocked him down to the floor. (I now insert two verses from leeneia's version, for I like that twist of the story) "Well, even if nothing can be done (regarding my fate) I beg for the life of my dearest boy and that of my young knave. If they have hurt someone it's because I have forced them." Junker Caspar said No to that. "The calf must pay for the cow so you will not succeed. In Baden, the dear town he will lose his head (his head will jump from him). They were all brought to Baden and were in prison not for longer than one night and within one hour (at the same time) the limesmith was hung, his son and all the young (better in leeneia's version: ...and his young knave). Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: der lindenschmied From: Wolfgang Date: 18 Apr 06 - 02:03 PM When I started translating (with an interruption by a long telephone call) Jim's post was not there yet. Double work, but it's fun comparing. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: der lindenschmied From: Wolfgang Date: 18 Apr 06 - 02:29 PM Jim, your translation follows the sense with one exception: 'Mut' here is not 'courage' but a very old form of what now is rather 'Gemüt'. The old sense is still present in old fashioned expressions like 'er war frohen Mutes' (he was in good spirits). Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: der lindenschmied From: Jim McLean Date: 18 Apr 06 - 03:13 PM Thanks, Wolfgang, I was hoping someone like yourself would come in with a natural, liquistic translation. I waited a while and as nothing was forthcoming, I offered up my translation, for Roberto's sake. It's been over 45 years since I learned the local dialect from the Oma in the Youth Hostel (Rothenburg ob der Tauber) where I worked for 6 months as HerbergsHelfer.. Slainte, Jim |
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Subject: RE: der lindenschmied From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 18 Apr 06 - 10:17 PM Thanks to you both for the translations. |
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Subject: RE: der lindenschmied From: Roberto Date: 19 Apr 06 - 02:45 AM Thanks a lot to Jim and Wolfgang. R |
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Subject: RE: der lindenschmied From: michaelr Date: 19 Apr 06 - 06:54 PM Can someone please explain what a "lime-smith" is? And how can "Linde" translate to "lime" which is a citrus fruit? Cheers, Michael |
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Subject: RE: der lindenschmied From: GUEST,AR282 Date: 19 Apr 06 - 09:07 PM Lindenwood and limewood are the same thing. In Britain, Linden trees are called lime trees and have nothing to do with the fruit but is a corruption of the German "linne" (I believe it means "to bend). In America, lindenwood is often called basswood because of its unusual bark or rind or bast as it is called. Lindenwood was used a variety of ways. If I'm not mistaken lime trees were also used as gallows. Lindens are sacred or nationally recognzed trees in central Europe and especially around Slovakia, the Czech Republic, Poland and other areas. Lindens are also known as tilia. Their greatest variety is found in Asia. Lindenwood also makes a nifty guitar wood for both acoustic and electric models. I have Dean Playmate from China with a body of linden. Whether he knows or not, actor Hal Linden is named after the linden tree. Linnaeus quite deliberately named himself after them. |
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Subject: RE: der lindenschmied From: CET Date: 20 Apr 06 - 09:09 PM And thanks from me for the translations as well. I enjoyed the version on the Leipziger Folksessions CD, but couldn't pick up much from the lyrics, other than that there was a robber called the Lindenschmied who ran afoul of Junker Caspar. I might even take a stab at learning it myself now. Reinhard, you weren't kidding about "Deitsch" - they're brilliant. Edmund |
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Subject: RE: der lindenschmied From: michaelr Date: 20 Apr 06 - 10:26 PM What is a lime-smith? Any clues? Cheers, Michael |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Der Lindenschmied - in English From: Wolfgang Date: 22 Apr 06 - 08:37 AM Don't think about it seriously, Michael, it's just my translation. When I saw in the dictionary 'lime-tree' for 'Linde' I had the same feeling as you that 'lime' didn't sound well. I actually even started the translation with leaving 'Lindenschmied' untranslated (treating it as a name) and I think now that would have been the better choice. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Der Lindenschmied - in English From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 22 Apr 06 - 10:10 AM This is a bit unlikely, but I have seen medieval religious statues cut from limewood. (Some of them had to be assembled from more than more piece of limewood.) Perhaps the Lindenschmied came from a family of sculptors of wood. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Der Lindenschmied - in English From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 22 Apr 06 - 11:32 AM I think it may just be that he or an ancestor had been a smith, his smithy being under or near a linden tree. As in English we might, in the old times, have referred to "the oak smith". Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Der Lindenschmied - in English From: Jim McLean Date: 23 Apr 06 - 05:14 AM I found the word 'limesmith' a bit clumsy and characterless hence my reason for leaving it, in my translation, as 'Lindenschmied'. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Der Lindenschmied - in English From: Wolfgang Date: 24 Apr 06 - 11:11 AM I bet Dave is right. The name is used today as a family name though usually in the form 'Lindenschmidt'. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Der Lindenschmied - in English From: Roberto Date: 22 Oct 06 - 10:17 AM I've found a second recording of this very fine song by Liederjan(the first one was by Leipziger Folk Sessions). Does someone know of other available recordings of this song? Liederjan, Live aus der Fabrik, Deutsche Volkslieder aus 5 Jarhunderten, 1976, TIM 203447-213 1. Es ist nicht lang, dass es geschah daß man den Lindenschmid reiten sah, auf einem hohen Rosse. Er reit' den Rheinstrom auf und ab, hatt' sein gar viel Genossen, ja Genossen. 2. Frisch auf ihr lieben Gesellen mein, es soll und muß gewaget sein, denn wagen das tut gewinnen. Wir wollen reiten Tag und Nacht bis wir ein Beut' gewinnen, ja gewinnen. 3. Ein Bauer schiffet ubern Rhein, er kehrte in ein Wirtshaus ein: Wirt, haben wir nichts zu essen? Es kommen drei Wagen vollbeladen, aus Frankfurt von der Messe, je Messe!" 4. Der Wirt, er sprach zum Bauerlein: „Ich hab genug von Brot und Wein denn im Stall da stehn die Rosse, die sind des edlen Lindenschmid, er nährt sich auf freier Straßen, ja Straßen." 5. Der Bauer dacht' in seinem Mut: „Die Sache die wird werden gut, den Feind hab ich vernommen." Alsbald er Pfalzgraf Phillip schrieb, daß er sollt eilends kommen, ja kommen. 6. Der Lindenschmid saß hintern Tisch und schlief sein Sohn der sah's und rief und rief: Verräter sind gekommen. Wach auf herzliebster Vater mein, Verräter, die sind kommen, ja kommen." 7. Als Pfalzgraf Phillip zu der Stuben eintrat der Lindenschmid von Herzen erschrak. „O Lindenschmid gib dich gefangen, zu Baden an dem Galgen hoch, daran so sollst du hangen, ja hangen." 8. Der Lindenschmid war ein freier Mann, sogleich er zu der Klingen sprang. „Wir wollen erst ritterlich fechten!" doch es waren der Bluthunde allzuviel, sie schlugen ihn zur Erden, ja Erden. 9. Sie wurden alle nach Baden gebracht und saßen dortselbst nur eine Nacht. Wohl zu derselbigen Stunde, da ward der Lindenschmid gehenkt sein Sohn und all die Jungen, ja Jungen. |
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