The Weekly Walkabout

Subject: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 05:24 AM

THE WEEKLY WALKABOUT, E.G.
WEEK OF JUNE 23-29
From walkaboutsverse.741.com

Poem 136 of 230: LANCASHIRE SUNG SIMPLY

Lancashire:
Cut by rivers, met by sea;
Patched by farmland,
Mills and other industry.

Lancashire:
With your Pennine boundary;
Steeped in hist'ry,
Through your buildings, there to see.

Lancashire:
Where, through Graces, moorlands be;
Wooded parklands,
Flowered gardens - kept neatly.

Lancashire:
Red Rose County, God's blessed thee.

Subject: BS
From: Mysha
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 06:12 AM

Hi,

This isn't about folk songs, is it? Shouldn't it be below the line?

                                                                  Mysha

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Mysha
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 06:14 AM

Hi,

Never mind: Now it is. Just ignore it.

                                                                Mysha

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 06:33 AM

"Lancashire Sung Simply" is, indeed, one of my attempts at a folk song, Mysha.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 06:48 AM

Hi WAV, somehow your last thread 'Walkaboutverse' stopped allowing one from posting on it. I'm somewhat new to this, was their a reason as to why? Also, your attempt at a folk song was fine, nothing wrong with it, I didn't understand why someone could object to it(?????).

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 06:55 AM

Neither can I, GFS?!...but, at least, anyone on a not-so-powerful computer like mine, won't have to wait so long to post here, if they wish to.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: s&r
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 07:20 AM

It seemed unneccessary to close the previous thread - it wasn't too unpleasant, a bit tasteless at times, but I must confess to reading it with a morbid fascination, and half hoping it would make 1000 posts.
Perhaps the moderators would say why threads are closed?

Stu

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 07:33 AM

Boredom?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Sedayne (Astray)
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 11:24 AM

As a very recent immigrate into Lancashire, I read WAVs Weekly Walkabout with interest. I was especially struck by the reference to the Penile boundary, a somewhat perplexing image in any context, but here it carries an added pathos, especially being (somehow) steeped in hist'ry. A search for Penile Boundary on Google throws up some very interesting results indeed. Nice one, WAV - though perhaps a footnote or two might be of use in future...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 12:36 PM

To Sedayne: the boundary of Lancashire does, indeed, in part, run along the Pennines; and, in the second stanza, I put a semi-colon after it to try and make it clear that it's the county that's "steeped in hist'ry".
Also, as has happened before on Mudcat, it has been changed to "Penile" presently (as Spaw just noted), so, if you want the correct version of THE WEEKLY WALKABOUT, perhaps it's best to use blue clickys - walkaboutsverse.741.com
(To the Mod. - please change it back for me as you did last time.)
Finally, I have to disagree with John - not many dull moments when I have a go.

---

I changed it to "Pennine," as requested. I can't imagine why a moderator would have changed it to "Penile." Could it be you made a typographical error in the first post?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: s&r
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 12:43 PM

Does anyone remember the scintillating narrative oof E L Whisty (Peter Cook)? There weren't many dull moments in his diary, that's for sure.

Stu

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: s&r
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 12:45 PM

Here it is

Stu

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Gene Burton
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 02:15 PM

"BTW Dumbass. you can't write a folksong."

(Altogether, now): OH yes, you can...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 02:43 PM

You can write a song. It MAY become a folk song, but you can't write one.

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 02:46 PM

Oh, yeah!??

Then just what do you mean by "folk song?"

(There, by God! That'll dump the poop in the punchbowl!!)

Don Firth (strikes again!)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 02:49 PM

Above post in response to Gene.

Don Firth (in cloak and mask)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 03:06 PM

Who can tell if its a folk song or not..he only posted the lyrics .Lighten up!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 03:12 PM

Is there such a thing as a "Childish Ballad?"

(Who was that masked man, anyway?)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 03:20 PM

Dear Don: ballads tell STORIES; good or bad, "Lancashire Sung Simply" is NOT a ballad.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Gene Burton
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 03:21 PM

Anything I can readily hum written before I was born qualifies IMO...
Incidentally, I've just been watching highlights of Neil Diamond's set at Glastonbury; and it was striking to see how thousands of people, mostly under 30, seemed to know all the words to "Sweet Caroline". I reckon a "Neil Diamond: Folksinger" thread is long overdue!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 04:31 PM

James James
Morrison's mother
Hasn't been heard of since.
King John said he was sorry,
So did the Queen and Prince.
King John
(Somebody told me)
Said to a man he knew:
If people go down to the end of the town, well,
what can anyone do?"

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 06:08 PM

Actually Gene, I think somewhere down the road you'll have a Tom Petty one as well. (:<))

Saw the Bogdanovich documentary on him (and of course the Heartbreakers just the other day......4 hours long!). Somebody in there commented they could play for 2 and a half hours and you'd be singing along the whole time.

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 07:25 PM

Good grief, WAV, you didn't even get the joke, did you!!??

Sheesh!

(Vanishing behind the curtain again.)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 12:23 AM

I wonder as I wander out under the sky
Why that daft bugger Spaw is not hung out to dry. ;-)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 04:22 AM

He must have a sense of humour Don, that doggerel is a joke isn't it?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 06:15 AM

I'm aware of Child's Ballads, Don...now, can we call "curtains" on that one? :-)>
Here's one of the fine day-trips I made whilst living in Manchester...
WEEK OF JUNE 30-JULY 6
Poem 127 of 230: TO SPACIOUS SOUTHPORT - AUTUMN 2000

Most of the leaves
    Of poplar trees
Had fallen free
    When to the sea,
By bus then train,
    In stop/start rain,
I headed-down
    From Radcliffe Town.

After Wigan,
    The train began
To pass across
    What to me was
A coastal plain
    To see again -
With varied crops,
    And grazing op's.

From the station,
    Reconstruction
Soon came to eye
    As I walked, by
The gallery,
    Toward the sea,
And thereby thought:
    "Spacious Southport."

(And, these days, there, you may even bump into a fellow goatee/folkie of mine - Sedayne.)

From walkaboutsverse.741.com

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 12:22 PM

Isn't it funny
How a bear loves honey?
Buzz buzz buzz
I wonder why he does...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 12:30 PM

3 cheers for Pooh!
For who?
For Pooh.
Why what did he do?
he saved his friend from a wetting.
3 cheers for Pooh!
For who?
For Pooh.
I'm sorry I keep forgetting.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 12:54 PM

WAV, you may be aware of "Child's ballads," but you still didn't get the joke, did you?. Do you even know who or what "Child" is? Some people who should know better don't.

Case in point:   on the occasion of one of idiosyncratic folk singer John Jacob Niles' concerts, billed as "a program of Child ballads," one music reviewer wrote, "Mr. Niles sang a program of some of the most unusual children's songs I've ever heard."   (!)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Muswell Hillbilly
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 12:57 PM

You've heard that one too, eh, Don? That has to be one of my favourite folk stories of all time, it still gives me a fit of the giggles, and the frightening thing is, I can see its relevance here on this thread.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 12:58 PM

Frankly, Firth, I did get that.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 01:01 PM

Sing Ho! for the life of a Bear!
Sing Ho! for the life of a Bear!
I don't much mind if it rains or snows,
'Cos I've got a lot of honey on my nice new nose!
I don't care if it snows or thaws,
'Cos I've got a lot of honey on my nice clean paws!
Sing Ho! for the life of a Bear!
Sing Ho! for the life of a Pooh!
And I'll have a little something in an hour or two!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 02:28 PM

Your weekly allotment has been met. See your previous two posts above. Enjoy discussing either this or last weeks verse. I am sure we will all be waiting for your next one due on July 7

From walkaboutsverse.741.com

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 02:29 PM

Okay, WAV, rather than belabor (belabour?) the point, I'll take your word for it.

By they way, my first name is Don, not "Frankly."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 02:32 PM

You don't give a damn, Don?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Muswell Hillbilly
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 02:42 PM

I tink that if people truly didn't give a damn about the postings of this person, Walkaboutsverse, they wouldn't contribute to this thread.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 03:10 PM

That's why I used a comma, Don.
And, fair enough, Mod. - "Liberty, as surteit, is the father of much fast" (NOT me but William Shakespeare, Measure for Measure).

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Muswell Hillbilly
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 03:16 PM

If you're going to quote William Shakespeare, will you please quote him correctly, and please put the quote into it's correct context.

LUCIO: Why, how now, Claudio! whence comes this restraint?

CLAUDIO: From too much liberty, my Lucio, liberty:
As SURFEIT is the father of much fast,
So every scope by the immoderate use
Turns to restraint. Our natures do pursue,
Like rats that ravin down their proper bane,
A thirsty evil; and when we drink we die.


Measure for Measure, I, ii

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 03:33 PM

Just checking your knowledge of punctuation.

Are you familiar with the writings of Lynne Truss? It would be a bit embarrassing to be shot by a panda just because of a misplaced comma.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 03:36 PM

Eats shoots and leaves

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Muswell Hillbilly
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 03:39 PM

The version of that joke I heard involved a koala in a Sydney restaurant at the all you can eat bar.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 03:45 PM

I did put "surfeit", HS, and it's not the first time my words have been changed - see the first Weekly Walkabout, and find "Penile" boundary, and then my request to the Mod.: Date: 29 Jun 08 - 12:36 PM. (I also got an email from the Mod. about this, but still don't know who is doing it, nor how?)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 03:46 PM

Who's ahead?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Muswell Hillbilly
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 03:52 PM

let me see if I have this right, someone 'changed' a single letter in one word in your post? That is going to take a bit of thinking about, mind you I hear the theme from The X Files playing in the background.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 03:57 PM

How sweet to be a Cloud
Floating in the Blue!
Every little cloud
Always sings aloud.
How sweet to be a Cloud
Floating in the Blue!
It makes him very proud
To be a little cloud.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Gene Burton
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 03:59 PM

Whoever it was must have something of a fixation with the privy member. Perhaps they're trying to tell us something about themselves??

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 04:03 PM

Little Cloud Lyrics
Artist(Band):The Incredible String Band


How sweet to be a cloud, floating in the blue.

Lying awake, late the other night
Heard above me a trembling,
I looked up, it was a little cloud,
From which a gold string was dangling;
You know, I gave the string a little pull,
Just to see what was on the other end.
Just then a voice came down to me, says,
"Hey, now, don't you want to be my friend,

And float with me to distant lands,
wondrous and fair;
Float with me to distant lands wondrous and fair?
You see I'm just a happy little cloud,
I laugh and float and sing my song,
But the other clouds don't like me none.
They say I am behaving very wrong.
You see a cloud's supposed to be sad,
To cry and weep and tear its hair and all,
And don't matter how hard I try,
I can't get the first little tear to fall."

And float with me to distant lands, wondrous and fair;
Float with me to distant lands, wondrous and fair;

I said, "Hey, I like you little cloud,
You are a nice little fellow, yes."
"You making some, kind of a joke?", said the cloud,
"Now can't you see I'm wearing such a pretty dress?
You see I am the prettiest little chick cloud
That you'd find anywhere up above.
I just dropped in on you awhile
To see if you could give me some kind of love."

And float with me to distant lands, wondrous and fair;
Float with me to distant lands wondrous and fair;

Just then the chief cloud come into view
And says, "Hey, girl, now what you think you're doing there?
I told you so many times before
You just don't seem at all to care.
You know you should be floating up above, now
Don't let me catch you down here again."

And as my cloud pulled out of view,
There come failing down a gentle shower of rain.
Happy rain come failing down,
Red, green, blue and golden.
And every drop, as it fell, it smiled
And, throwing back its head, began singing,

"Oh float with me to distant lands, wondrous and fair;
Float with me to distant lands, wondrous and fair."


G

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 04:07 PM

The Weekly Walkabout was copy/pasted from my site, HS. I just read the Mod's email again, and it tells me that they can edit messages if need be, and that someone else has found a way to do it and mess with my posts. (It first happened on the "Walkaboutsverse" thread.) The plot thickens...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 04:09 PM

G, that's quite glorious. What was the Minotaur song they did? "I can't drink well, because of my horns..."

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Muswell Hillbilly
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 04:26 PM

I don't think it's the plot that's thickening, I think it's your paranoia. Mudcat or anyone else simply isn't going to edit one letter in your posts, you're definitely losing it.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 04:37 PM

No, (not so) Hon. Sec. - I do, as just stated, have an email from a moderator about this, so what you just said is false and defamatory. Why don't you email the Mod. yourself, and ask if it is possible to change posted text, and then retract your last comment?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Muswell Hillbilly
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 04:44 PM

Nowhere did I say it couldn't be done. The gist of what I say is why would they do it. I don't see what makes you so special that you'd be singled out to have your posts messed with. I've been reading far more relevant and important posts on other threads regarding music musicians etc, and nowhere else have I seen anyone say that their posts have been tampered with.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: irishenglish
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 04:54 PM

Picture a place where posts get mysteriously altered. But were they altered at all, or is it in the imagination? Ladies and gentlemen, you have entered The Mudcat Zone-dee dee dee dee......

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 04:55 PM

Well, if you still don't believe it, HS, check with the moderators yourself. But, I repeat, I do have an email from a mod. about it, so I suggest you mind your tongue a bit more.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Muswell Hillbilly
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 04:56 PM

May I present the following cautionary parable that we shall entitle The Walkaboutsverse Post Went Walkabout.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: irishenglish
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 05:08 PM

Or....Walkaboutsverse's walkaboutsverse went on walkabout..............................................................while walkingabout!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Muswell Hillbilly
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 05:12 PM

I intend to do JUST that ( I assume you mean Joe Offer when you refer to 'a moderator' Mods are something entirely different). Right at this moment you are in no position to suggest anything to me, Walkaboutsverse

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: irishenglish
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 05:29 PM

I do believe old WAV is getting a little worked up about this.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Muswell Hillbilly
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 05:36 PM

I have a feeling there will be tears before bedtime over this. You know, I've visited a fair number of forums of various sorts in my time on the net, which is considerable, and never in my life have I come across a person like this walkaboutsverse. I have though come across his/her type elsewhere, but I will refrain because he/she will likely say my post is false and defamatory.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 05:55 PM

Cottleston Cottleston Cottleston Pie,
A fly can't bird, but a bird can fly.
Ask me a riddle and I reply
Cottleston Cottleston Cottleston Pie.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 07:33 PM

CLICKY

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 01:51 AM

An ode for WAV

There goes a happy moron,
He doesn't give a damn,
I wish I was a moron,
Hmm, perhaps I am ?

Or maybe better Neil Innes ' Idiot Song '

How sweet to be an idiot,
As harmless as a cloud,
Too small to hide the sun,
................

eric

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 03:58 AM

In case you didn't notice, I'm no longer allowed to respond in verse here (only once per week); so, as to "happy moron", Eric, how does your CV compare with 4 tech. (note - abbreviations!, again, HS) certificates and a BA in humanities, etc.?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 04:42 AM

Degrees are commonplace. Was your degree graded? Not Hons?

What is a tech. certificate exactly?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 05:48 AM

...4 technical certificates in production/manufacturing, Joe; and I was accepted for Honours in anthropology, but chose not to take it.
ALSO, JUST UPLOADED (FOR A FEW DAYS) "LANCASHIRE SUNG SIMPLY" TO myspace.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 05:56 AM

Cheers, WAVey Davey - that was good for a giggle! Mind you, I had to turn it off because it made the dog whine and pace agitatedly. I honestly haven't made up that last bit.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 06:18 AM

Dear Ruth - maybe your dog just couldn't fathom your giggling!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 06:46 AM

No, WAVey Davey - she couldn't fathom the awful noise coming from my computer speakers. When I turned it off, she calmed down.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 08:01 AM

Frankly Ruth, I'm not sure what to believe from you - I've read on Mudcat threads (in among some rather choice language) that you're from America, and are a member of the EFDSS...is that true?
And why is it "WAVey Davey" today?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 10:22 AM

Why is this so hard to believe, WAVey Davey? The EFDSS National Council - its governing board of trustees - numbers among its members 2 Americans, a Scot and A New Zealander. And don't even get me started on the library staff... :D

Are non-English people not allowed to be EFDSS members?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 10:36 AM

Okay, I believe that, then...but you didn't answer my question regarding nomenclature.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 10:45 AM

Very good of you to trust my veracity...I've been in England for 17 years, as it happens, so have lived almost half my life here.

Wavey Davey was a character from Vic Reeves' Big Night Out. You won't remember that, I suspect - it was around 1991 - some time before you arrived... :D

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 11:32 AM

...re-arrived, Ruth, as I've said in verse (poem 71, e.g.), I was actually born in Manchester the day Alf Ramsey's English team won the World Cup; then repatriated almost exactly 11 years ago. But, yes, I've never seen that show - although his name rings a bell.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: s&r
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 01:37 PM

I have just listened to Lancashire Sung Simply. I thought it unlikely that the poem (which I read earlier) could be equalled by a suitable tune and delivery, but it was. Oh it was

Stu

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 01:46 PM

Ruth's dog is ecstatic about it, too, apparently, Stu!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 02:29 PM

poor thing - she's had to go to a quiet place for a few days to recover. I can't believe you'd commit such violation on a good English dog with a good English working heritage. Or some such nonsense.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Gene Burton
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 02:35 PM

"Oh you've got to be like a monkey
if you climb up the tree!
You've no more use for the solid earth
and the lad you used to be.
You sit in the boughs and gibber
with superiority.
They all gibber and gibber and chatter,
and never a word they say
comes really out of their guts, lad,
they make it up half-way. ...
I tell you something's been done to 'em,
to the pullets up above;
there's not a cock bird among 'em", etc., etc.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: lady penelope
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 03:58 PM

Mmm... it's odd. I clicked on the MySpace link and all I got was a version of O Waley waley. Might have been a problem on the site though...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 04:06 PM

To Lady P. - it's 3rd on the list of 6, so you can either layback through the dulcet tones! of the top 2, or click straight on "Lancashire Sung Simply".

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: lady penelope
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 04:21 PM

Ah must be a problem on site. I didn't get any list.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 04:23 PM

Put a heavy weight in your right hand pocket, that'll give you a list, to starboard Lady P

G

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: lady penelope
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 04:26 PM

Ah, got it.

Dulcet. Mmm. Ok. Er. Pass.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 05:05 PM

...soporific, then, LP?!...anyway, I just about off to bed.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Ruth Archer
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 05:21 PM

gene: you forgot to add a link to your Myspace site. Surely an oversight.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 05:27 PM

Masochist

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 06:39 PM

I always thought Lancashire was pronounced "LANK-uh-sheer," not "LANK-uh-shyre." At least I've always heard it that way by people such as Lawrence Olivier, Derek Jacoby, Glenda Jackson, Alec Guinness, Alan Bates—hell, even John Cleese!

Quavery voice, very iffy sense of pitch, no breath support, raspy quality in the voice. Apart from that, Covent Garden, here we come!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 12:56 AM

Just checking in to see what was new and I made the mistake of actually listening to WalksaboutwithBadVocalCords sing(?) that piece of crap. I can't believe they haven't banned you from MySpace...........

Listen Man......I'm a lousy singer, always have been.   So on the basis of "it takes one to know one," let me tell you that as a singer, you make a good buttfuck. Geeziz, it really is bad........Don't sing in the woods 'cause that voice would sterilize squirrels and all the birds would shit themselves to death. If the quality of your breath matches your singing then your breath smells like a 30 day dead, decayed, & rotting skunk, covered with monkey shit and bathed in pig piss. Its that bad Man.....really.......If I'm lyin' I'm flyin' and my ass is glued to this chair.

Has anyone ever told you you have a good voice? If so, they were just making you feel good or trying to stifle a laugh or perhaps they're just fuckin' brain dead jadrools much like your sorryass self.

Consider learning ASL perhaps.........please.


Spaw

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 04:55 AM

When people say "Lancashire", Don, it sounds, to me, like "Lancashar", although a lot say just "Lancs". In a review, I have been accused of shoehorning, frankly; but, Spaw, some have, at least, said they do, indeed, like some of my singing, equally frankly. Also, I did call my CD "CHANTS from Walkabouts".

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 05:02 AM

egotism noun, derog 1 the habit of speaking too much about oneself. 2 the fact of having a very high opinion of oneself. egotist noun a self-centred person. egotistic or egotistical adj. egotistically adverb.
ETYMOLOGY: 18c.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 05:08 AM

Frankly, John, I do want a lot of people to know my, free, life's work, as I think it's a good way forward for humanity.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: lady penelope
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 06:48 AM

And so humble too....

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 06:58 AM

WAVey Davey, a self made man who worships his creator, what an unbelievable dork.

eric

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 07:03 AM

If you believe you have all the answers, can you combine your work to form a clear, coherent manifesto / bible / guide? Because at the moment your work is a series of vaguely related 'conclusions'.

In Mudcat discussions you constantly refer people to your website, in order to clarify your views, but again this leads to all the small conclusions, which leads to confusion. Your humanities degree will have provided you with the skills of essay writing. Why not use these skills, a series of mini-essays on various subjects, 'A critique of multicultural integration of musical influences' for example?

Perhaps the end result will aid in the clarification of your views, and will aid in the survival of humanity?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 07:35 AM

I could have accepted an offer of post-grad. study, Joe, and produced a thesis, on some micro-matter, than may have been read by 10s of people; instead, I produced "Walkabouts: travels and conclusions in verse", which looks at most of the big issues, and, at least some of which, has, so far, been read by 1000s.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Stu
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 09:53 AM

Easy on the commas WAV, people are hyperventilating here.

P.S. I too listened to 'Lancashire Sung Simply' and although I have the greatest respect for anyone who ploughs their own furrow and puts their work up for public critique have to say it's awful. Have you ever listened to Harry Cox? Please buy the CD now and hear what unaccompanied English singing really is before you go any further. I beg thee BUY THE CD NOW!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 10:20 AM

To Stigweard: not long after finding folk, I listened to this tape till worn-out - Voices: English traditional songs

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: greg stephens
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 10:42 AM

WAV: I have just heard your song, and I can safely say that I have never heard anything like it on my life. And you can quote me on that.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: irishenglish
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 10:47 AM

Voices is great WAV, but it is more of a revival collection-Maddy Prior, Martin Carthy, John K, etc. It is not the same as listening to Harry Cox, Walter Pardon, Fred Jordan, etc. Just as I said in the Glastonbury thread. And unless someone beat me to it, 100 up!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 10:52 AM

Next trip to London, a visit to the EFDSS will be a priority.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 11:05 AM

Why? Do they need a good laugh?

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 12:48 PM

...they have plenty of source-singer recordings, etc., at the EFDSS, Spaw.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Stu
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 12:52 PM

Seriously WAV, check out the source singers - here's a link to the Harry Cox album 'A Bonny Labouring Boy' which is an excellent place to start Amazon.

This stuff is fundamental to the tradition, and everything else follows from these singers . . .

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 03:00 PM

Exactly so. stigweard is right.

"Quavery voice, very iffy sense of pitch, no breath support, raspy quality in the voice."

Okay, let's get serious!

WAV, what I wrote above is an accurate assessment of your singing voice. But—this is curable. I should have actually put "no breath support" first, because that's the basic cause of the problem. With lack of good breath support, a voice will wobble and wander off pitch. And the raspy sound is occuring because the vocal cords are not receiving enough breath passing over them to sustain a constant tone.

If you want to sing, you can't be timid and wimpy about it.

First of all, you need to loosen your jaw and open your throat. Relax your jaw muscles and let your jaw hang slack. Wobble it back and forth until there is no tension in your jaw muscles. Then yawn a couple of times. This will open and relax your throat.

Take a good lungful of air. Breath from your diaphragm. When you take a proper breath, the diaphragm moves downward and pushes your abdomen outward, which is why people sometimes describe good breath support as "singing from the stomach," which, of course, is an anatomical impossibility.   A good exercise for breath control is to take a good breath (but don't overfill your lungs) and blow a thin stream of air, as if you are blowing at a candle flame, making it flicker, but not blowing hard enough to blow it out. As you do this, count:   one count per second, and try to count as high as you can before you have to stop and inhale again. Try for ten at first, then up to fifteen or twenty. This will help strengthen your diaphragm and help you learn to control the flow of your breath, which is essential for singing well.

By the way, most of the source singers, or people who have been singing all their lives, tend to do this naturally. But not everyone learns to do it well, and these folks generally just don't sing.

Sing scales and parts of scales. Here is a good collection of vocal exercises:   CLICKY.   Download them, print them out (including the instructions beginning on page 4), and practice them—with good breath support. And more good information here:   CLICKY #2.

And sing out like you mean it! But at the same time, remember that shouting is not singing. When singing, you should feel the front of your face above and below your eyes vibrating or "buzzing." You can get this feeling by humming an "mmmmmmm." You should feel that vibration all the time when you're singing.

And don't worry:    this kind of practice will not make you sound like an opera singer. Believe me, it won't.

If you're going to do this, you may as well learn to do it right.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 03:53 PM

In terms of listening to and learning from Harry Cox, Stigweard, yes, I would be a starter, and I'll keep that CD in mind, thanks; but, in terms of others (e.g. Sam Larner, Joseph Taylor), I'm not, frankly.
To Don: I hadn't heard much in the way of your particular critique before (shoehorning and tempo too slow, instead), but I have heard most of what you said on technique and drills before. However, rather than go through scales, I prefer to play a line, sing a line, play a line (with my tenor-recorder/English flute). If nothing else, this has improved my ear a tad as, starting this year, I have begun to write music by mimicing my Chants/songs on this instrument (having learnt to read just the top-line melody a couple of years ago).

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 04:01 PM

"First of all, you need to loosen your jaw and open your throat. Relax your jaw muscles and let your jaw hang slack. Wobble it back and forth until there is no tension in your jaw muscles."

Sounds like Spaw when he walked into the backyard and found one of his weimaraners engaging in rampant sexual union with the Fuller Brush lady...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Amos
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 04:17 PM

Sounds like the bishop giving instruction to the actress, to me....

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 04:19 PM

Actually Hawk, I think its more the sound of a cow with a Dachshund up its ass.............

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: irishenglish
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 04:21 PM

Ok WAV, I don't understand this at all-"In terms of listening to and learning from Harry Cox, Stigweard, yes, I would be a starter, and I'll keep that CD in mind, thanks; but, in terms of others (e.g. Sam Larner, Joseph Taylor), I'm not, frankly."

Are you simply saying you have listened to Larner and Taylor, etc, but not Harry Cox yet? Or are you saying they aren't your cup of tea?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 04:36 PM

They are my cup of traditional "tea", IE.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 09:08 PM

WAV, playing the line on the recorder first and then singing it as a way of trying to stay on pitch I'm afraid isn't working for you. What you need to do is practice. If you don't already have the tune solidly in your "mind's ear," without having to play it on the recorder immediately before you sing it, then you don't know the tune! And if you don't know the tune, you're not even close to being ready to put your singing before the public.

Record youself, then listen to yourself critically. And if it sounds fine to you, have someone else--not a friend or relative, but someone objective--listen to it and give you an honest opinion. And listen to what they say.

Unless you want to be an object if pity and ridicule, for cryin' out loud, don't put your singing on the internet until you can at least sing on pitch and hold a steady, firm tone that doesn't wobble all over the place!

I'm not trying to put you down. This is just very good advice. If you have any ambitions as a singer, what you've already posted on MySpace can come back to haunt you!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 09:46 PM

Actually, without you taking this the wrong way - from your OWN page...

"whether fluating, reading, chanting, or singing, I nearly always take one breath per line, and one swallow per stanza - a phrasing that makes it easier to know where I'm up to."

If you even have to THINK about this, let alone mention it to others, then your breathing (as others have said about breath support) is not under control sufficently for you to really be trying to perform in public.

It should be so naturally ingrained that EVEN THINKING ABOUT IT should be unecessary.

Breathing 'from the diaphram', or as I do, having done Oriental Martial art and health excercises, 'from the Dan Tein' practised properly, will enable you sing (or play any wind instrument!) a whole bloody STANZA in one breath!!! :-)

I'm NOT making that up you know!

Have you ever been in or near one of those 'ball clanker competitions' when singers try to outlast each other with a steady tone on a single breath?

You can then easily pick the 'real breathers'... provided I have a minute amount of warning and can 'fill my lungs', I can last with the best of them and can even 'force breathe' the dregs to keep the tone going way past 'normal emptying of the lungs'.

But I also did Live Theatre training - actors first learn to BREATHE, then speak. Breathing excercises are part of Basic Theatre Training - it is ASSUMED that you can do this before you even start on other stage techniques. Intercostal breathing is also a 'capacity extender' that stage actors and 'real singers' (read opera and other classically trained voices) can call on. I've actually watched a famous pop singer struggle with her breathing (using your silly and useless one breath per line stuff!) while singing the Aussie National Anthem for a major public event... If you are just trying to control your breathing 'one breath per line', you can't perform - a wind instrument player uses the breathing to control legato phrasing (across more than 'one line') to get meanings as does a 'real singer'.

This 'real breathing' I talked about allows you to get 'projection' - which is WHY Opera Singers can fill a large hall without microphones.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now whatever 'performance style' you want is unrelated to any to of this 'breathing stuff' - do what you want, chant, verse, whatever, but until you learn to BREATHE PROPERLY - and some will never manage without proper training from a qualified teacher, you will never gain much respect for your performances, sadly. This is why I don't have a lot of time for most 'pop singers', but there are a few who are 'Can Beltos'... :-)

Oh - and the whole 'breath support' stuff applies whether singing or playing ANY wind instrument. Just that singers are the most noticed and painfully affected by lack of breath support.

Robin

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 09:49 PM

"you don't know the tune"

I know someone who used to have to listen to the tune on their walkman via headphones while on stage about to perform - before they could perform... but the place was very encouraging to beginners - that person has now got past that...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 05:27 AM

Mudcat's very own version of Florence Foster Jenkins

G

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 06:20 AM

As I said, I'm aware of different breathing techiniques and exercises (I used to get a "Musician's Channel" that looked at them), and I've heard someone do the whole tune as an into. to Greensleeves (as I do), on an oboe, ON ONE BREATH; and I've heard others breathe during lines. However, I stand by my traditional one-breath-per-line phrasing.
Also, I only have the cheapest Argos digital camera, and therefore can only record a video without sound - however, on either myspace or youtube, you may like to view another breathing-type exercise I do: i.e., going through a 2-octave chromatic-scale on the tenor-recorder/English-flute, which takes about 40 seconds, on one breath.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 06:28 AM

Sorry - I think that oboe player actually used two breaths on "Greensleeves": one for the verse and one for the chorus (where as I use 4).

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 08:08 AM

Hey Dumbass.......You've got a few people who are truly trying to pass along some good advice and knowledge and you're getting all defensive about "your traditional way" instead of listening to them. What you're doing doesn't work as anyone can readily tell simply by listening.

Your voice sucks, Own up to it. Mine does too but I just sing with friends and informally. Yours may be worse than mine and you think its fine. Wake up Shitforbrains! You're bad, awful, horrendous.......You stink!

Quit defending your gawdawful voice and try to take a few well meant words of advice. Geeziz..............Enough with the broke-dick mamalucca personality..................


Spaw

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Stu
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 08:53 AM

"mamalucca"

er, wot's one of them then?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 08:53 AM

It IS subjective, Spaw: others on Mudcat, Myspace, festival comp's, singarounds etc. - "simplistic but superlative", "good voice", etc.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 09:16 AM

"my traditional one-breath-per-line phrasing"

Documentation please!



Oh - YOUR TRADITION (that YOU started!) ... ok... mumble, mumble...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 09:17 AM

""mamalucca"

er, wot's one of them then?"

Marmamlade left out of the fridge for a year?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 09:28 AM

"I've heard others breathe during lines. However, I stand by my traditional one-breath-per-line phrasing. "

I've told this tale before, but am unlikely to find it, so I'll tell it again.

I was having a Shaihatsu Massage in The Valley Mall. There was a guy nearby who I had met around the folkie scene, new to the (irish) whistle, playing something or other.

It took about 10-15 mins for my relaxed brain to trigger why what he was playing was NOT MUSIC!!! and why I had not recognised the common session 'tunes'...

He would start, play a flat out string of notes without any phrasing or much recognition of the fact that different notes were supposed 'to last different periods of time for a tune to be', then stop for a breath WHEREVER HE RAN OUT OF BREATH, then keep going again...

He too 'had a tradition'...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 09:40 AM

I said above, Foolestroupe, that I have heard, e.g., some source singers, who, at least mostly, do, indeed, also, take one breath per line; and I've heard poetry recited, well, the same way.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 09:50 AM

Geeziz, you really ARE a stupid fuckin' jadrool.......To quote Dylan, "Its a wonder that you still know how to breathe." Then again, you obviously don't..................You're so dumb ya' gotta' be twins.

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 09:56 AM

"I said above, Foolestroupe, that I have heard, e.g., some source singers, who, at least mostly, do, indeed, also, take one breath per line; and I've heard poetry recited, well, the same way."

Yep, so have all of us, and like the whistle player I mentioned (ANY ONE has tried to ever teach music can attest to similar behaviour among keen 'know-all' students!) it must be remembered that NOT ALL TRADITIONS ARE TO BE ENCOURAGED...

SOME POETRY RUNS OVER LINE ENDS...

Caesar entered: on his head,
his helmet; on his arm,
his sheild; in his hand,
his trusty sword; walking swiftly.

The way Shakespeare wrote it...

is NOT the same as

Caesar entered on his head
his helmet on his arm
his shield in his hand
his trusty sword walking swiftly.

....

:-)


"To the ignorant fool, all is bliss"
© THE AUTHOR

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 10:11 AM

"(Irish) whistle" (Foolestroupe)...do you mean Irish music played on the English penny whistle?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Stu
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 10:16 AM

"simplistic but superlative"

That's open to interpretation.

I don't think I've ever seen such good advice freely given on this site - I'll be copying and pasting some of this myself.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 10:32 AM

Hey Stiggie........THIS THREAD (AND THE OTHERS LINKED AT ITS TOP) has a lot of free info and that's been a part of the "Mudcat Tradition" from the beginning!(:<))

Enjoy! I'm sure none of it will affect Walksaboutactinglikeadipshit but he can go polish Prince Charlie's knob.

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 10:47 AM

I'm no monarchist, Catspaw, nor knob-polisher - and where's your kittie litter?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Stu
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 11:26 AM

Thanks for the link Spaw.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Gene Burton
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 04:35 PM

Catspaw, you really do the English language quite an injustice. I mean, really, what's it ever done to you?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 04:45 PM

...Catspaw would make a bullocky blush.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 04:58 PM

Am I to understand that someone with editing capability here changed this man's poem, with the intent of mocking him, and though he has asked to have it changed back, no one has?

Am I also to understand that anyone can mock him in verse but that he is only allowed to post one verse a week?

May I ask what is so offensive about his poetry?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Gene Burton
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 05:07 PM

"May I ask what is so offensive about his poetry?"

Actually, I've been wondering about that myself. Some of it's actually pretty good. I've certainly read a damn sight worse. You'd have hoped most reasonable people would be capable of judging art in islation from the views of its creator- after all some of the greatest poets of the English language had reactionary views.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Gene Burton
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 05:13 PM

Philip Larkin for one- if language was an instrument, Larkin would be a virtuoso.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 05:20 PM

Personally I don't see anything wrong with Catspaw's English, it's straightforward and to the point, no messing about.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 05:21 PM

Thanks for the concern and support, Gene and Jack: I have only done level 1, and a bit of level 2, in computers, so I've no idea how - but, yes, someone has definitely hacked-in and changed my spelling, e.g., on the first peom, which I copy/pasted from my site, where the spelling is "Pennine" NOT "Penile". The moderators can, and have, corrected suchlike before for me, and may do so again when they notice these last few posts.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 05:30 PM

". . . my traditional one-breath-per-line phrasing."

That's just bloody ridiculous, WAV. That's like saying that the structure (line length, meter, and rhyme-scheme) of a poem have more importance than its meaning, in which lies its story (if there is one) and its imagery. And meaning and imagery are conveyed, not by following some arbitrary notion such as "one breath per line," it is conveyed by phrasing. And traditional singers do not limit themselves to that "one breath per line" nonsense. Where in blazes did you get that notion? Certainly not by listening with your brain engaged.

No matter how long or short the lines of a poem / song may be, phrase according to what the words mean. I have heard hundreds if not thousands of singers of all kinds and genres—including vast numbers of traditional singers—and that is what those who are anywhere from halfway decent to truly excellent do. It's only the really bad singers who buy into the kind of arbitrary, nonsensical ideas that you seem to cling to.

I must know something about it, WAV, because I've made a living singing in concerts, clubs, coffeehouses, and on television since the late 1950s, I worked for eight years as an on-the-air broadcaster, and recently I have appeared at, and participated in, a series of poetry readings by a real poet, Jana Harris, who has several collections of poems published and a DVD (and possible television show) of the poetry readings in the works. I have also recorded—at his request—several poems by Richard Patrick Gibbons (who wrote Sully's Pail—recorded by Tom Paxton—and a number of other songs) for a CD of his poems that he is preparing for release and soon to be put on a web-site which is currently under construction.

Several people here, who have a vast fund of knowledge, have tried to be helpful to you in your stumbling, bumbling efforts, WAV, but you seem to be oblivious and keep right on with the same brainless braying. I'm beginning to think you are beyond help.

You can lead an ass to knowledge, but you can't make him think!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Gene Burton
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 05:34 PM

"...straightforward and to the point"

Oh, come on. "Mamalucca"; "Jadrool"; "Gezeez"? None of these are even words. There may be an internal coherence there; but if so I'd say he's pretty backed up. Is he entirely well?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 05:35 PM

Is the person saying that someone has deliberately and with malice aforethought hacked into this website and changed the wording of his posts and the spelling of his words?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 05:49 PM

Lord Batman, I think he is saying that some one substituted "Penile" for "pennile" on his post without his permission. It was I that attributed the motive of mockery. I could be wrong, perhaps it was spellcheckery and different dictionaries were used.

In answer to Don Firth's post. Did wav ask for the the spew of "knowledge" and mockery that I see on your post and on this thread?

the work identified as "Poem 136 of 230: LANCASHIRE SUNG SIMPLY" seems to be a simple little word picture of lancashire. I frankly do not understand the hostility that posting it has generated. If he were to post all 230 of the poems here would anyone be harmed? At the very least the venom and mockery would, presumably be vented more quickly.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 05:59 PM

One endeavors to be helpful, Jack. That's one of the nice points about Mudcat. I have often benefitted from the knowledge of other Mudcatters, and whenever possible, I like to return the favor.

I assumed that WAV, an obvious neophyte, could benefit by some suggestions and advice. And you will note that I am not the only one who offered such.

But obviously, the effort is fruitless. And unappreciated.

Don Firth (with better things to do with my time)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 06:00 PM

It does seem to me that this person's work has definitely generated a certain level of hostility, personally I see no harm to it and, at least, he has the bottle to post his work on the net. There are far worse things out there than the poetry of this person.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: irishenglish
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 06:02 PM

JTS, look not just at this thread but the following threads-Glastonbury Folk Festival, English Cittern, English Folk Degree, English Country Dancing Please for some of the clues about why some of us question WAV. He was posting his poems for a long time on the walkaboutsverse thread, it has now been switched to this one. The switching to penile is juvenile, and should be changed however. I started out, actually believing in principle, some of his notions. But his posts and threads become more about self promotion of his beliefs he has written about on his website. Whenever any of us challenge him on specific points, most of the time he does not respond, or quotes ad infinitum from the same website, which is not really answering the question. I wrote a long response to him the other day on the Glastonbury thread. Despite all that, he sent me early birthday greetings, which I thanked him for, because see, the thing is-we might like to banter with him the same as others on here that we disagree with, if he would only answer directly, and not with a cut and paste from his website!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 06:05 PM

Jack, what is happening here is that a gang of Mudcat friends have gathered, just as in a schoolyard, and they are having a great old time picking on "the dweeb", as they have decided to treat WAV in that fashion here.

Kids love doing that, and most adults have not grown up nearly as much as they think they have...so they love doing it too.

That's what is happening on WAV's threads.

If you recognize it as a form of hazing or bullying...well, you are quite correct. It begins at a certain level on the part of a handful of people, then other people jump on the bandwagon, and it accelerates. If those people are all each other's friends, well, then they think it's "okay" to do that and they figure that the "dweeb" deserves everything he is getting. They are emboldened by each other's support.

There have been times when I thought that maybe WAV was deliberately doing the stuff he does here just for laughs...in which case he probably wouldn't mind people making fun of it, but lately I'm not so sure if that is the case. It gets a little hard to figure out exactly what is going on here.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 06:12 PM

Right from the beginning, the postings from WalkaboutsVerse and the numerous threads he has started all belong under the heading of "SHAMELESS SELF-PROMOTION." This is not a person who is interested in the interchange and exchange of knowledge and information that is one of the major hallmarks of Mudcat. He is interested only in feeding his ego and blowing his own horn.

Not that he has much to be egotistical about!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 06:20 PM

Oh? Well, perhaps. I had the impression he was just amusing himself.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 06:24 PM

If he is not interested in exchange of knowledge and information then why offer it to him?
I would take

"SHAMELESS SELF-PROMOTION."

as being somewhat tongue in cheek. But I would not take is as an invitation to critique, or to discuss one's muse. His poems are self admittedly simple and easy to understand. The simple choice on the part of the reader would be to enjoy them or not.

I see where you are all coming from and will certainly admit to having been there myself, part of the pack on the playground LH describes, throwing a barb or two of my own.

As for WAV, I am finding myself admiring his restraint and composure. I shall try to take his patience as a role model. I hope the Moderators soon see fit to correct the vandalism of his poem and that they will take measures to see that such "hacking" does not occur in future.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 06:40 PM

So it wasn't Penile then? I thought WAV might be straying into some seriously surreal psycho-sexual imagery with that one, but you're quite right to be pissed off with this sort of tampering; shame on the perpetrators (moderators?).

Otherwise, WAV - your post of 4.45 today is priceless; good to see such vivid antipodean colloquialisms aren't being lost in your rush to repatriate.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,What a peculiar world!
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 06:44 PM

Perhaps stigweard, Don Firth, irishenglish, Foolestroupe, and others should simply look the other way when someone is obviously drowning, and if he doesn't explicitly call for help, just let the bugger drown. Would that satisfy the peanut gallery?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 07:45 PM

I changed it to "Pennine" in the first message, as requested. I can't imagine that a moderator would change it to "Penile." Could it be you made a typographical error in the first post? Could it be you made a Freudian slip?
Can't say I know anything about a "weekly allotment," either.
The previous thread was getting hit by a steady stream of Spam, so it was closed. It should have been identified as "closed due to Spam," but it wasn't. Sorry about the omission.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 09:47 PM

"It's only the really bad singers who buy into the kind of arbitrary, nonsensical ideas that you seem to cling to."

Don, you've heard of my "B-graders" theory of life? The A graders have the talent and knowledge, the B graders have only the persistence...

"they are having a great old time picking on "the dweeb""

Now I don't like Lenard Cohen as a general rule, but I do love 'Fisrt we take Manhattan, then we take New York'. I don't mind a lot of WAVs poetry. I haven't been criticising it. But when he starts on the 'ignorant B-grader crap' about technical stuff I have a passing interest in, and a lot of others have even more experience with, I have been merely trying to educate him. As he has demonstrated, he insists that he knows more than us. Listening to him perform, say his critics, reveals that he doesn't - even though he alleges that he has won 1st prizes for doing things his way.

"should simply look the other way when someone is obviously drowning, and if he doesn't explicitly call for help, just let the bugger drown. Would that satisfy the peanut gallery?"

Well this is more a case of some silly ignorant bugger standing in water up to his neck and refusing to shut up or sit down and drown...


"do you mean Irish music played on the English penny whistle"

This reveals someone who is not widely musically educated, sadly...


"breathing-type exercise I do: i.e., going through a 2-octave chromatic-scale on the tenor-recorder/English-flute, which takes about 40 seconds, on one breath."

1) Well for a start, the process of voice production/projection also involves the vocal chords. Playing a wind instrument to train vocal production is really only a sort of 'one handed voice exercise'... :-P
2) If you want to play the 'ball clanker singing games' I mentioned before, get serious and try to last at LEAST a minute... physically watch on closeup opera singers breathe while singing...
3) "tenor-recorder/English-flute" Bloody Hell! how creative!!! it's really called a 'fipple flute' as distinct from a 'flauto-traverso', and a recorder - with its origins in Europe (Purcell, Bach, Telemann and Vivaldi etc)- is no more deserving of being called an "English Flute" than any 'flauto traverso'... and a Tenor recorder (unless WAV can provide documentation to prove his claim) is no more prevalent or common than a Treble in England than anywhere else in Europe...

This also reveals someone who is not widely musically educated, sadly...

"Quavery voice, very iffy sense of pitch, no breath support, raspy quality in the voice."
"I think its more the sound of a cow with a Dachshund up its ass"
"Unless you want to be an object of pity and ridicule, for cryin' out loud, don't put your singing on the internet until you can at least sing on pitch and hold a steady, firm tone that doesn't wobble all over the place!"
"If you're going to do this, [and insist on boring/annoying your betters] you may as well learn to do it right."

Well said Don (and others).

~~~~~~~~~~~
"Catspaw would make a bullocky blush"

As as Aussie who knows a bullocky or two,

That statement is full of Bull...
~~~~~~~

"I started out, actually believing in principle, some of his notions."

So did I.

"But his posts and threads become more about self promotion of his beliefs he has written about on his website. Whenever any of us challenge him on specific points, most of the time he does not respond, or quotes ad infinitum from the same website, which is not really answering the question."

And he tries to put down any help from the experienced as only "misunderstanding his 'theories'".

"maybe WAV was deliberately doing the stuff he does here just for laughs...in which case he probably wouldn't mind people making fun of it, but lately I'm not so sure if that is the case. It gets a little hard to figure out exactly what is going on here."
"I had the impression he was just amusing himself."

But it's what he's doing with the other hand that is worrying some of us...

:-)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Stu
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 04:26 AM

"Perhaps stigweard, Don Firth, irishenglish, Foolestroupe, and others should simply look the other way when someone is obviously drowning, and if he doesn't explicitly call for help, just let the bugger drown. Would that satisfy the peanut gallery?"

Ah, another post from some anonymous tosser hiding behind 'guest' sniping.

Well, read the threads listed again dicksplash - I've got far more respect for WAV who at least puts his name to his work than I'd ever have for some poltroon stirring the shite without committing any solid view to the discussion. Many have offered some excellent advice and offered well-meant support on the other Glastonbury thread to WAV, regardless of whether he listens or not.

As for bullying - well, that's not my intention but I will offer an opinion on work displayed for public consumption by such a shameless self-promoter as WAV. Whoever changed the word in WAV's poem is as big a pillock as you get on these boards, even the ever-present trolling gutless guests.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 05:50 AM

Given all that, I doubt the word-changing will happen again, thankfully.
"There have been times when I thought that maybe WAV was deliberately doing the stuff he does here just for laughs...in which case he probably wouldn't mind people making fun of it, but lately I'm not so sure if that is the case. It gets a little hard to figure out exactly what is going on here" (Little Hawk)...I admit to attempting some humour in my Blurb
("The style is mostly direct; and the substance informative, humorous and didactic"), but, basically, I'm someone GENUINELY heavily against our status quo, who is try to do something about it, in a shoestring.
To Don, I do read everything you post, and do agree with SOME of it. But reading your last few, you seem to think I'm stupid for not agreeing with you on everything; i.e., you're not just talking down, but talking a long-way down to someone who has achieved 4 tech. certificates and a Degree in Humanities.
To Foolestroupe: many in classical music still refer to the recorder as the English flute, and the transverse flute as the German flute (even though we will never know the "who?" or "where?" of their invention). And the penny whistle evolved, in England, from the English flageolette.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 06:43 AM

"To Foolestroupe: many in classical music still refer to the recorder as the English flute, and the transverse flute as the German flute (even though we will never know the "who?" or "where?" of their invention). And the penny whistle evolved, in England, from the English flageolette."

Complete bullshit. The last time those terms were in any popular use Cornwallis was going belly up at Yorktown. Not all things are English and as a matter of fact this includes you and the entire Flute family. The only nationality much used in combination with "flute" anymore is "French flute" which is another (and far less popular) way of referring to an open hole orchestral flute.

But as you seem to need to make all things English and of course better (not to mention original), perhaps you could expound upon: the English Blowjob, the English Buttfuck, the English Handjob, the English Jack-off (actually, that's you), the English Tittyfuck, etc.........................

btw......How do you do something inside a shoestring? I'd say its a typo......Or is that yet another illegal change to one of your posts?LOL

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 06:52 AM

Frankly, Spaw, I'd heard of the "French horn" but not the "French flute" you mention; and I don't pardon your French...where does the rain in Spain tend to fall?...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 06:59 AM

What color is an orange? How long do you cook a 3 minute egg?

Or did you mean it doesn't rain in Spain since rain is purely and traditionally English?

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 07:25 AM

French flute

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 07:26 AM

And the penny whistle evolved, in England, from the English flageolette

The key to this one is in the name, WAV, which Generation (still?) use, somewhat confusingly, for their whistles. In any case the penny whistle most certainly did not evolve from the Flageolette, which is an 18th (?) century contrivance albeit of a similar lineage to the internationally ubiquitous whistle flute of which the British penny / tin whistle is but one manifestation. I have an early 20th century German example (in E!) of a tin whistle made in the traditional manner still used by Clarkes. Once again, WAV, you're twisting the facts to fit your tiresome nationalistic theory, thus casting your academic credentials into further shadow. There are English Jew's Harps too, very distinct in their rather robust construction, albeit dating from the 19th century, and quite possibly known as Trumps; just as in Italy they're known as Scacciapensieri, in Germany Maultrommel etc. etc. In any case, the penny whistle, like the Jew's Harp, is no respector of national boundaries.   

And as for the English Tittyfuck, Catspaw, in England it's commonly known as Spanish Sex (hence WAV's where does the rain in Spain tend to fall? presumably), or, as famously immortalised by Glen Miller, String of Pearls. In Tyneside I've heard it referred to as a Longbenton Tit-wank.

Insane Beard, aka Sedayne.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 07:40 AM

"And the penny whistle evolved, in England, from the English flageolette"

And there WAV goes again... ever heard of 'The Boy Who Cried Wolf'? It ended up that nobody believed him.

Look, I'm not making this up, you know.

There are far too many widely educated people here - in almost ANY field of knowledge (since many people aprat form professional musos also have music as a hobby, while earning their pay from Street Sweepers to Rocket Scientists) to tolerate people like WAV from just 'making it up as they go along'.

You are rapidly digging yourself into a hole of ridicule and no respect, mate!

Truly, it is better to keep one's mouth closed and be thought a Fool, that to open it and remove all doubt!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 07:45 AM

I thought it was my fellow goatee from your earlier post, IB. I found the site where I'd read about the whistle, whilst looking for an instrument 3 years ago - here (without "twisting the facts").

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 08:03 AM

What that website says is VERY different from

""And the penny whistle evolved, in England, from the English flageolette""

That is only YOUR conclusion as to its meaning WAV.


http://www.thewhistleshop.com/catalog/whistles/inexpensive/Clarke/blackclarke/clarke.htm
"was a talented amateur musician and played a wooden whistle. He developed the idea of copying his whistle but used tinplate to do so. He made the block in the mouthpiece out of wood "

Your link says
" Early in the 19th century, English-made whistles started to appear with the six finger hole arrangement that we see today (also some with the traditional thumb hole and keys). In 1843, Robert Clarke of England made the first "Tinwhistle", borrowing the design from a wooden whistle that he owned. "

Now you may well believe that means that 'the tin whistle was an English invention'...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 08:47 AM

(without "twisting the facts")

Okay then - misreading them and (deliberately?) misunderstanding them to fit your increasingly perplexing ideas on Englishness. Scholarship doesn't start, or even end, with conclusions, WAV - just the facts, which need constant analysis, understanding & scrutiny, an approach not altogether conducive to harbouring pet theories which, obviously in your case, just get in the way of seeing things as they actually are.

I do not doubt that the tin whistle as we know it today is essentially the idea of Robert Clarke, but to call the tin whistle an English instrument would be as absurd as calling the Saxophone a Belgian one. The key to this lies not in the hardware, rather in the cultural software that gives musical instruments their meaning and identity. When one thinks of tin whistles, one immediately thinks of traditional Irish music, the jigs, reels & airs to which the whistle is naturally suited; just as when one thinks of Saxophones, one thinks of African-American jazz - the playing of John Coltrane, John Gilmore, Rahsaan Roland Kirk et al, whose work would be inconceivable without the ingenuity of the inventive Belgian, just as their work would have been inconceivable to him! In other words - Adolphe Sax came up with the hardware, but it took the genius of the African-American musicians to give it its musical voice, without which I dare say the saxophone would be as obscure as the rest of his innumerable musical hybrids and inventions.

Your nice multi-cultural world doesn't consist of isolated cells festering away in their indigenous ethnically pure in-bred idylls, rather a seething mass of collective interactivity, diversely manifesting & cross-pollinating across the planet as human history, both cultural and political, collective and individual, takes its wondrous course.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 09:11 AM

...till we all blend into the one boring capitalist culture, IB?...not if I can help it - I really do love the world being multicultural.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 09:32 AM

... whereas in your ideology (as far as I understand it from your previous posts), all English people should be playing the same English musical instruments, singing the same style of folk songs and hymns, dancing the same English dances, only visiting other nation's cultures as an onlooker.

Just because cultures mix, doesnt necessarily mean that any culture is lost, quite the opposite happens in fact, cultures become enriched, new and exciting music, dance and art comes into being.

We should all celebrate what is local to us, but traditions change and evolve. Traditions that dont evolve often die out.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 09:41 AM

", quite the opposite happens in fact, cultures become enriched, new and exciting music, dance and art comes into being"

Damn - now WAV can't play 'the English Penny Whistle' - because its ancestor was a corrupting FOREIGN INFLUENCE...

Well if he plays like he sings...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 10:07 AM

I do indeed try to play like I sing, and sing like I play, Foolestoupe - good or bad at it, that's my thing, within the English tradition. And, in my opinion, the (chromatic) tenor recorder is a bit better for this task than the penny whistle, which I enjoy listening to others play.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: mandotim
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 10:34 AM

Er... WAV, how do you define an 'English' tenor recorder? Given that the recorder is generally supposed to have originated in central Europe, then developed from the Renaissance to the Baroque version before entering wider use in England and the USA? I'd be interested in your research on this, as my brief enquiry suggests that the recorder isn't really an English instrument at all, depite the fact that you play one.
I look forward to your reply, since you ducked my last question on another thread.
Tim

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 11:00 AM

WAV - there's nothing in the least bit traditional about chromaticism, on the contrary; the chromatic tempered scale has been used in the oppression and subjugation of indigenous musical systems & cultures the world over (including those of the British Isles) so what sort of bland boring corporate global musicality are you representing by playing an instrument which a) in in no way shape or form traditional to traditional English music and b) which represents the very music system by which other world & ethnic musics are so ruthlessly impoverished. There is nothing either traditional or English about this instrument; it is vile, unnatural & perverse, and plastic to boot, so donate the fecking thing to your nearest charity shop and invest in a nice Clarke's C (the original key) or one of Dave Shaw's more developed versions of the Clarke's concept, still manufactured, I believe, in County Durham...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 11:01 AM

I said, just above, Mondotim, that we don't know where the recorder was invented, but, for centuries it has also been known as the English flute (here, e.g.), and I have it as one of my INSTRUMENTS OF (OR CLOSELY ASSOCIATED WITH) ENGLAND.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 11:29 AM

This thread is becoming mostly just an excercise in various people trying to "one-up" the other and score some kind of petty verbal victory over them. The only respect in which it's unusual is that WAV is on one side and almost everyone else is on the other side. Other than that it's the normal vain and endless trail of ego-jousting that we see going on all the time on contentious threads here.

Nothing to get excited about, in other words... ;-)

So, may I join the fun too and take a petty shot at someone?

Ahem. I shall now take a shot at Foolestroupe.

****

Foolestroupe, the Leonard Cohen song is not 'First we take Manhattan, then we take New York'. It is 'First we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin'.

And if I may paraphrase your own remarks to WAV (after correcting your many typos):

There are far too many widely educated people here - in almost ANY field of knowledge (since many people apart from professional musos (?) also have music as a hobby, while earning their pay from Street Sweepers to Rocket Scientists) to tolerate people like you, Foolestroupe, from just 'making it up as they go along'.

You are rapidly digging yourself into a hole of ridicule and no respect, mate!

Truly, it is better to keep one's mouth closed and be thought a Fool, that to open it and remove all doubt!

****

Heh! Now, wasn't that petty? Oh my, but it was such fun. MMMM...mmm!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 11:30 AM

"there's nothing in the least bit traditional about chromaticism" (IB)and I never said there was; I said, rather, that I enjoy playing the tenor recorder (brought back as a student, folk, as well as early music, instrument, early last century, mainly by English and Germans - we now have both English and German fingering), and listening to others play the penny whistle. (My total repertoire now invloves 6/7 keys - I only transpose when the score goes below middle C - the tenor's lowest note.)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 11:40 AM

I have attempted to master the pennywhistle on a couple of occasions. I got about as far as the front hallway entrance. I should think that true mastery of this instrument could only be achieved by practicing relentlessly for a period of several months or perhaps even a year. If one reached the point where one could play Mozart accurately and with style on the Pennywhistle whilst hanging upsidedown suspended by one foot over a pit of alligators and still never miss a single note, well...then one would have arrived, as it were.

This I have not done. Nor do I expect to. For one thing, alligators are expensive. For another, the result wouldn't really be worth the effort, in my opinion.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 11:53 AM

...so we won't be enjoying Little Hawk playing the penny like a skylark, then!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 11:56 AM

No, I expect I'll stick with guitar, harmonica, and keyboard. ;-) Pennywhistle is nice, though. I enjoy hearing them.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 12:05 PM

I play recorder, and I was interested to see Walkabout's term 'English flute.' Sure enough, my dictionary simply says:

English flute. Music. a recorder

I HAVE heard the term German flute for a transverse flute. In fact, I have just attended an early music workshop where we saw the cover for a book of Scottish music published in the 18th C and suitable for 'German flute.' The music was published in Paris.

(Henry the VIII, the English king, was a recorder player.)

Walkabouts, I went to your page and listened. I like the pretty tune for Tees and Tyneside.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 12:13 PM

brought back as a student, folk, as well as early music, instrument, early last century

You persist in this notion that the recorder was brought back as a folk instrument, which is most clearly not the case, despite the exceptions I've pointed out elsewhere. The main motivation for this singular piece of resurrectionism was in the revival of Early Music, which is not folk music, though the development & exploration of various early & medieval repertoires has certainly had an impact on certain folkish artistes, including Shirley Collins, The Amazing Bondel, and the Third Ear Band, all of whom used recorders in their music. That it became a student / kids instrument was entirely due to the cheapness of mass produced plastic instruments the intention being to give a grounding in basic music theory before moving on to a proper woodwind instrument. The main effect of this is that countless thousands of kids were put of music for life, and left with the impression that the recorder is a toy!

The recorder is no toy, nor is a folk instrument; rather it is a highly developed dynamic instrument designed for extremes of solo virtuosity. Watchers of BBC4's recent Early Music programme can't fail to have been impressed by the playing of David Tennant look-alike Piers Adam in his ensemble Red Priest. A David Munrow for our age perhaps? Those who didn't see it, check this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8wL1AR7iqo

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 01:58 PM

I watched that Early Music series the first showing, IB, and, I agree, Piers Adam is an amazing recorder player.
Thanks Leeneia - I'll be re-loading that track soon, as I've added a simple (melody only) recorder intro. to it...just a but more amateur engineering to be done to my Audacity-software recording of it.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 02:01 PM

I was wondering if the fact that Piers Adam may or may not look like David Tennant is important in regards to Adam's playing ability.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 02:53 PM

". . . you're not just talking down, but talking a long-way down to someone who has achieved 4 tech. certificates and a Degree in Humanities."

Frankly, WAV, I don't give a billy hoot how many certificates and degrees you have in however many fields. That doesn't alter that fact that you talk a great deal of unmitigated blather and your musical efforts are greatly in need of much improvement, especially before trying to inflict them on an unsuspecting public. And if you want to compare musical educations, I'm quite sure I could roll over you like a Sherman tank.

Apparently you think I'm talking down to you because, rather than being sufficiently worshipful, I—and others—have tried to give you some frank and honest criticism along with some helpful suggestions. But it appears your God-complex requires you to take offense rather than even consider that you might gain a great deal by at least listening to what people are good enough to offer you.

You see, I made the mistake of assuming that you are seriously interested in singing traditional songs.

FYI:    The French horn is not French, it is an English hunting horn with valves. The English horn is not a horn, it is a woodwind.

How's this for cultural pollution? Spanish guitar, Chinese flute, and an "English flute (??):"      CLICKY.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 03:21 PM

Whoo-Hoo! Impressive rebuttal, Don. Perhaps WAV will crawl away and hang himself now, eh? ;-)

What you don't realize, though, is that Chongo Chimp and William Shatner both have educational credentials that would blow yours right out of the water like an overripe melon getting hit by a cruise missile. Yesirree. I'd list them all here (first Chongo's, then Shatner's), but I'm simply too compassionate to engage in that sort of acute psychological bludgeoning of another human being.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: s&r
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 04:24 PM

"Humanitiess graduates are attractive to many employers because of their personal transferable skills rather than the specific skills that they have gained during their degree course. Many of the skills that are gained on a humanities degree are highly sought after in almost every job. These skills include:

ability to write well in a variety of styles.
to organise your work and meet tight deadlines.
to convey meaning precisely.
to summarise, argue and debate.
to research, select, analyse, organise and present information.
to think logically."

From the Univesity of Kent

Stu

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 05:35 PM

When it comes to formal musical education, Don, you may well "Sherman tank" me, as I don't have any: my poetry and music are both "self-taught" - for want of a better term, becuase, informally, of course I've learnt from others (TV - e.g. "Musicians Channel", mentioned before; radio; folk clubs; web articles and forums; books; etc.). But I'm happy that I've stuck with just the top-line melodies of songs and hymns, which I can now, just about, write as well as read (it's more folkie to play by ear but, still, better to know both ways, I feel - perhaps we can agree on that much?).

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 06:27 PM

The French horn is not French, it is an English hunting horn with valves

Maybe not. The English hunting horn is a small trumpet used for sounding basic calls by fox hunters, like this one here. The horn used by French hunters is a coiled natural horn, played in ensembles & creating some of the most thrilling music you're ever likely to hear - I've got a record of it somewhere, but for a taste see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOeyQUmkQjs. Never anything quite like this in England!

I was wondering if the fact that Piers Adam may or may not look like David Tennant is important in regards to Adam's playing ability.

I shouldn't think so, but it gives him a fashionability that I doubt will hurt his career any. My favourite recorder player remains, now & forever, Woody Allen look-alike Rene Clemencic...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 08:57 PM

I'm no authority on brass instruments, IB. The comment about the French horn being an English hunting horn with valves was something told to me over coffee one evening by a French horn player in the Seattle Symphony. He also told me about the English "horn" sailing under false colors. He had a whole list of little verbal anomalies like that having to do with music.

By the way, regarding recorder players, how about Michala Petri? This piece starts kind of slow, but about a minute into it, she shifts gears.

Yes, WAV, we can agree on that. It is, indeed, better to learn both ways.

And Little Hawk, I don't want WAV to crawl away and hang himself. That plays hell with one's ability to sing, and all along I've been trying to jar him into taking a bit of advice and learn how. When it comes to singing, hanging oneself is a bit unproductive (although I could make a list of singers who. . . .).

And Chongo Chimp and William Shatner? Well, if it comes to music (which is what I was talking about, but I am a true Renaissance man, so my range of knowledge verges on the universal), I have yet to hear a chimpanzee who could sing for sour owl jowls, and I've heard Shatner's record! I suffered for a time from post-traumatic stress syndrome, but I'm stronger now and fully prepared, so—bring 'em on!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 09:04 PM

"Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" as sung by Captain Kirk!??

I still have an urge to dive under my bed, grabbling the sheets as I go and stuffing them into my ears when I even think about it!

"Oh, nurse!"

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 09:53 PM

Littel Hack

I do apologize for any typos - not using my usual machine at the moment, and my MMD sometimes causes me to miss some.

[See - that's using the 'don't beat up on a cripple argument!"] :-)

I do thank you for spelling my name correctly! - unlike WAV - who I have not yet criticised for that... :-P

Now in the Great Tradition of Mudcat Debates...

Moving right along...


"I've learnt from others (TV - e.g. "Musicians Channel", mentioned before; radio; folk clubs; web articles and forums; books; etc.)"

This is fact the problem with your 'self education' - to quote the site
The Amazing Recorder is misleading as to claim that 'English Recorders' are what you play. Bet your chromatic instrument has a thumb hole... Do you know if any of King Henry VIII of England's collection of 47 recorders [12 tone chromatic?] have thumb holes, or where they just 8 tone diatonic 'whistles'?

Since you isnist that YOU are the only one correct with your theories formed on misinterpertations of things better known by those with more 'Sherman Tank' type education, you might want to consider not telling them that THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. Damn, anothter typo - hit the shift lock - but I'll leave the emphasis...


"it's more folkie to play by ear"

Ahhhhhhh.... Documentation?

Ok, I get it now - never let the facts spoil a good argument in the Mudcat BS threads...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 11:13 PM

I just have to comment on that Red Priest Four Seasons video. I found it to be incredibly pretentious and played like a carnival ride. That guy doesn't seem to understand the soul of the instrument at all. His playing is all flashes and parlor tricks with no real depth or beauty.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 11:38 PM

This, in my opinion, is a good use of recorders...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcp164LBWfQ

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 12:00 AM

...or, if like me, you prefer circus music...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWpbeSzPPqM&feature=related

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 12:16 AM

Well, it takes time to build up a taste for Shatner's unusual style of vocal delivery, Don.

Sort of a bit like Dylan, I guess...but a good deal moreso. ;-)

Now then, there's Tom Waites. I understand he's a brilliant songwriter and all that...but his voice? Uh...well...I'd rather listen to a baboon's voice put through a distortion box, frankly. Just a matter of personal taste.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 12:17 AM

Don Firth,

I am sure that if some one ever asks, that your Sherman-Tank-like Musical knowledge would be appreciated. The difficulty seems to be that your approach to criticism is also akin to a small under armed, under armored world war two vintage, rusty, tank dropping in, uninvited to a tea party. The problem is that once the tea is spilled and the porcelain shattered, the party is probably not interested in your opinion of the brew. It is also hard to hear the conversation over the sound of the engine.

WAV has done nothing to deserve your constant barrage of insults. Sherman Tank class musical knowledge is impressive indeed, but bear in mind that that The Mudcat has a number of A-10 tank killers who have the grace to keep their criticism to themselves unless asked and then who have the sense not to insult those who won't listen. This is a musical forum, not a contest to see whose barrel is the largest.

I am sure that you will take this exactly as it is intended. I mean to criticize your method of criticism in the same way that you are criticizing WAV's music. Indeed, my opinion of your ability to criticize is on a close par with your opinion of his music.

You need not reply to this. I am not interested in what you have to say to me. Especially if it is more of this weak, childish, name calling and ill tempered criticism.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 12:32 AM

That's precisely the same argument I keep having with Ron Davies, Jack...only on the political threads. ;-)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 12:55 AM

Well actually, I don't think Don was anywhere as Tank-like as Spaw about WAV's performance skills... just a little more passionate and detailed as to what would improve him.

Now WAV said

"I do indeed try to play like I sing, and sing like I play, Foolestoupe¹ - good or bad at it, that's my thing, within the English tradition"

- which may well give the impression that he cares NOT about quality - indeed based on the amount of self promotion of his website and the ... er, interesting musical concepts thereon, he seems far more interested in quantity.

Now the 'source singers and players' of trad folk music may well be rather 'inept' musically due to lack of performance training skills, but remember that it is their CONTENT that we 'worship', not the lousy performance! I seem to get the impression from WAV, that he reveres the lousy performance more than the content - which if he is just repeating their limited content in the same lousy performance skills limied style, is not by itself sufficiently unique that he should be equated 'god-status' with them...

Well if he insists on refusing to change/improve his performance skills because he sincerely believes that lousy perfromance skills are part of the unique and interesting 'tradition' that he is promoting, fine.... but as others have said - if you put yourself up for public performance and can't cope with negative feedback, then don't cry...

I can be good or bad at performance too - Once grabbed a fistful of wrong Bass buttons - one row off! :-) so had to stop, say, "sorry about that, playing the wrong buttons, I'll start again" - and the applause afterward (when I finished, not for saying that!) was no less... :-)

I remember performing in front of some elderly long term (Om-pah-pah style) Piano Accordion players who criticised my use of just a single keyboard reed in parts as 'not real Piano Accordion music style' and was told to stop doing that if I wanted to improve .... GAAAAAHHHH! :-)

People have different ideas... some of them VERY strange...

I am not 'attacking WAV' because I enjoy picking on him (can't speak for others!) but because I used to be that bad once myself... :-)


¹ sic... a wrong spelling of my handle, but I haven't yet criticised him for that... :-)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 01:06 AM

Thank you far sharing that, Jack. I shall give it all the consideration it is due.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weakly Wackabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 01:16 AM

From another thread in which WAV stunned regaled us with his profund and extensive musical knowledge and experiecnce.

"I think you're all being a little harsh on old WAV, after all he has been into folk music for over two years now."

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 01:25 AM

I just have one more thing I want to say about Piers Adam. From what I've seen of him, I would say that Piers Adam is to the recorder what Michael Flatly is to Irish Step Dancing.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 05:27 AM

Thanks for those clips, CC - one of those chaps seems to be playing a plastic recorder; the rest wood, which I've never tried...I hear, though, that wooden recorders are harder to maintain, but easier to play...? To FT, I do keep trying to play the 50 or so top-line melodies that make-up my repertoire as well as I can. And I've corrected that out of date "two years" line on my site - it was 2004 when I first turned-up at a folk club (yes, a relatively short-time, to save you saying it), in Newcastle, having moved from Lancashire, where I was born, in 2001...

THE WEEKLY WALKABOUT, E.G.

Poem 118 of 230: WHALLEY ABBEY...WHAT TALES? - AUTUMN 2000

Cistercian monks have clearly been -
    Their Abbey's ruins can still be seen;
And, sounding for centuries before,
    Calder flows have passed - seeking the shore.
Lords of the grounds have, more lately, stayed -
    Their manor houses reused and unscathed.
Through beautiful gardens insects fly -
    The ruins of folk just a pass-by;
And, by viaduct, trains pass above -
    Folk thereby viewing a town I love.
Anglers and C. of E. delegates,
    Hikers and tourists, have crossed the gates...
Opportunistic masons, kings-men,
    Model makers, Turner, and men who pen...
Perhaps the witches came down from the hill,
    And do ghosts haunt - still questing their fill..?

From walkaboutsverse.741.com

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 06:06 AM

"I hear, though, that wooden recorders are harder to maintain, but easier to play."

My AUD$300 pear wood one - bought ages ago - you have to 'play them in' when new (only short periods at first, gradually increasing the total daily playing time) and if you don't play them for a few weeks, start again the same too. You need to get the internal humidity level up slowly so the wood will absorb it slowly and not split. You also need to oil them occassionally, for the same reasons.

The $2 plastic cheapie is actually very easy to play, and only needs knocking the dust and cockaroaches out before playing.

Like many instruments - recorders are easy to play, but difficult to play well! In other words, not hard to get a sound, but hard work to get real music! :-)

The trick with the cheapies, same as with whistles, is that beginners usually blow too hard. Remember when 'Don The Tank' and other were trying to tell you about 'breath support'? You actually need BETTER breath support to play the cheapies, than the good ones, because the cheapies will make a horrible squeaking sound that most school recorder bands seem to have... But if you can't play the cheapies to sound like real music, then you will just feel that you have wasted the money!

Practice, Practice, Practice!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 06:11 AM

... and before anyone else posts...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 06:11 AM

200!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: mandotim
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 06:12 AM

Okay, I've finally done it; I've read WAV's output on the web. All of it. I've even listened to his music. I felt I ought to, before passing an opinion that lots of posters seem to hold, without actually saying it.

WAV, your notions of an idealistic 'English' culture which must be preserved at all costs are, to me, utterly repellent. The idea of separating cultures in the way you describe is precisely the excuse that was given for apartheid in South Africa. Your ideas on repatriation are very close to those initially put forward by Adolf Hitler, who talked about removing the stain of Judaism from the Aryan culture, and instituted a widespread programme to repress any culture that did not reflect his misguided notion of Aryanism.

(Incidentally, it's an instructive exercise to read WAV's outpourings, and substitute the word 'Aryan' for 'English'. )

As with almost all demagogues, you hold a set of views which in your mind are unchallengeable; after all, how could someone as well qualified, erudite and artistically gifted as you be wrong? It doesn't matter that your readers include some serious scholars, historians and brilliant performers; they don't agree with you, so they must be wrong.
I'm trying to refrain from offering a professional opinion on your state of mind, despite being qualified to do so. Suffice it to say that there are a number of clinical syndromes that describe your behaviour in some detail.

To those who contribute to WAV's threads; the psychological 'payoff' for this behaviour for the person concerned is the affirmation and attention provided by those who argue with WAV's views. The best thing to do to help WAV is to scrupulously ignore any and every provocative remark, idea or proposal. This may encourage him to get out from behind his computer persona and engage more meaning fully with the real world and people around him. Hopefully, in time, this will build a set of varied experiences and moderate some of his more extreme views. But I doubt it.

Finally; does anyone else suspect (as I do) that WAV is not actually English at all?

This is my last contribution to any of WAV's threads, but I hope the suggestion about ignoring him (for his own long-term wellbeing) is taken up.
Tim

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Stu
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 06:14 AM

"having moved from Lancashire, where I was born, in 2001..."

That explains everything - you're only seven ; )

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 07:45 AM

I could have put "having moved from Lancashire (where I was born) in 2001" Stigweard-in-pedantic mood - but I didn't put "having moved fron Lancashire, where I was born in 2001"...do you now understand the difference?
To Tim-in-terrible-mood - I hate imperialism: be it Nazi, Victorian, or any other.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 11:55 AM

In my younger days, I had a rosewood soprano and an ebony sopranino made by Aulos, both of them Baroque, and a Renaissance soprano (can't remember what kind of wood or who made it). Before that, I had a soprano made by Gill of some sort of softer wood. I now have plastic recorders (Aulos soprano and sopranino, and Yamaha alto and tenor - I am no longer a serious recorder player as I was in my younger days). My opinion is that softer wood recorders are harder to play than plastic, but that good hardwood recorders are much easier to play than plastic. Plus they don't drip quite as badly. But as has been noted, wood recorders require careful handling in order to avoid splitting.

I seriously doubt that any of the members of the Flanders Recorder Quartet is playing a plastic recorder. I would say that he is playing a wooden recorder that has ivory trim. They are not uncommon.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 12:03 PM

I wonder what people would be saying if the word "Irish" was substituted for the word "English" in the posts that are being criticized.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 12:13 PM

It would all probably make about as much sense, which is none at all. IMHO

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 12:31 PM

It just seems to me that it's considered acceptable (and not Naziesque) for people of pretty much every ethnic group except for English, to want to have some sort of "pure" form of their culture. Now, I think I can understand why that might be, but I really don't believe for a minute that everyone who would like to preserve a pure form of English culture is doing so for reasons that could be compared to the Nazis.

I was once in a session with some people from the UK who strenuously objected to the idea that the music of O'Carolan could be considered Irish. They said this was because he had studied classical music in Italy. Nobody accused those people of being of the same mindset as the Nazis.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 01:16 PM

I think the difference is, in the one case, to preserve culture by clinging to traditions and it in the other it is to preserve culture by murdering those imposing exotic influences. The difference is clear and wide.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 01:16 PM

Thanks for that info., CC, which I'll keep in mind should I start looking for a wooden recorder. I have a plastic soprano and alto also, but the one I nearly always use is an Aulos tenor, moulded in ABS plastic - you can see and hear it on myspace if you wish (simple intro's to "When I survey the Wonderous Cross" and "The Water is Wide").

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 01:33 PM

I've listened to some of the songs on the MySpace page. It sounds to me like this endeavor brings a lot of pleasure and joy, and I wouldn't let any of the criticisms on these threads diminish that. The pleasure and joy of playing and singing is what it's all about.

I play the accordion for the pleasure and joy of it, and even though I've been playing for almost eight years, I still consider myself a beginner. People sometimes give me a hard time for not being more forthcoming with recordings of myself playing, even though I don't think I play well enough for that. I expect that if I was more forthcoming in that respect, there would be other people just waiting to criticize me for not being a better player. No matter what one does, there will always be people who will feel compelled to criticize.

This is me badly playing a Finnish Christmas song...

http://www.alcdv.com/soundsamples/SylvianJoululaulu.mp3

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 02:17 PM

oops that Guest was me

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 02:19 PM

I hate repeating myself, but apparently I hve to. For want od anything better to do at the time, I traced back all the threads started by Walkaboutsverse. All thew ones I could find have been marked 'Thread Closed'. Is this a record? It certainly seems so to me.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Amos
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 03:22 PM

Kitchener:

If you truly are in want of anything better to do, I suggest a serious bout of self-examination is in order.



A

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 03:51 PM

Well my post is no worse nor better than most of them here. Anyway, my other question has been answered, why were they closed? Amos thank you for providing me with the answer.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 03:53 PM

I've been watching Wimbledon (my own weekend hit was washed out), a little of the BBC's Last Choir Standing (there were bits of our own culture), and have just re-loaded "Tees to Tyne" - with English-flute/tenor-recorder intro. on myspace . (And thanks for yours CC.)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 03:54 PM

I think it's a shame about the gardening thread being closed (and I can't, myself, understand why it was). I would have liked to have gotten involved in that discussion.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 04:05 PM

I read that gardening thread from end to end, and will discuss gardening till the cows come home, with anyone knowledgeable. I do enjoy gardening myself, though my garden tends to have far more variety than just 'native' plants, I do love variety.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 04:24 PM

A year or two ago, myself and just one or two others were on the BBC gardening forum arguing for native gardening - for the benefit of native fauna, whose native habitat has been depleted; and for other "green" reasons. At that time, there was lots of hostility from the majority but, when I browsed earlier this year, attitudes have definitely changed, with folks posting lists of native plants, and Monty Don planning an all native garden, etc.

Here's that summary of my argument again (and it's not that far off-topic as the last WEEKLY WALKABOUT mentions Whalley Abbey's gardens) -
(Further to the gardening verses in walkaboutsverse.741.com)

Green gardening is native gardening, and vegetables, plus other consumables, should be the only exotic-flora we plant - as doing so can help limit food-miles, etc. By filling our other garden spaces with natives, we use less water and other resources, whilst aiding the native-fauna that, over the centuries, have evolved with them.
(Even high-nectar exotics, such as Buddleia, that are very attractive to SOME native-fauna, should be avoided, because they upset nature's/God's balance – God created evolution, too, that is.)

Our green gardens, with their vegies and natives, can be made still greener by the addition of compost heaps/bins; a wildlife pond – for native frogs, newts, etc, rather than exotic goldfish; bee- and bird-boxes, plus carefully selected feeders; rain- and grey-water vats; by growing everything organically, including thrifty home-popagation/species-swapping; and by leaving some lush untidy patches, decaying branches, etc.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 04:30 PM

I'll stick with my mixed gardening thank you. To state that Green gardening is native gardening is complete rubbish, you compare apples with oranges and you offer no logical reasons for native only gardening.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 04:42 PM

Do you accept that native habitat has been lost, which has been one of the factors in the decline of some native fauna and flora, LBK? And, if so, isn't leaning toward native plants in our gardens going to help?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 04:47 PM

The so-called loss of native habitat is obviously more of an issue with you than it is with me. I grow what I grow and am not nationalistic about my gardening and that is an end to it as far as I'm concerned.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Amos
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 05:24 PM

K:

I don't know what answer; I have no idea why they were closed, or by whom, and the only one I know who could answer that question is Joe Offer, to whom it should go if an answer is wanted.

I was just being humorous about your taking the time to count threads, but, ya know, I am sure you had your reasons.


A

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 06:11 PM

I like the idea of using native plants in the garden. We live in a state that sometimes experiences drought conditions, and has long, very hot summers. Putting in a lawn and water loving plants is a bad idea if one wants to conserve resources, and we have decided that we won't be doing that.

I also was interested in participating in the discussion because of the spiritual element in it. I have been practicing "co-creative gardening" for several years myself and getting good results from it...

http://www.perelandra-ltd.com/

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 06:25 PM

Here's a link to a very successful co-creative garden in the UK...

http://www.findhorn.org/whatwedo/vision/cocreation.php

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 06:35 PM

We have tomatoes in our garden. They originated in what is now Peru. Is that native enough for North Carolina? I would hate to have a garden consisting of only tobacco and venus flytraps.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Amos
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 06:36 PM

YEah--you'd have to wear a kilt or something to garden in -- they don't have a fly....



A

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 06:50 PM

Vegetables aren't what's being discussed here.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 08:05 PM

I can't figure out the reason for the gardening thread closure, either.
I reopened it.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 08:03 AM

Now the 'source singers and players' of trad folk music may well be rather 'inept' musically due to lack of performance training skills, but remember that it is their CONTENT that we 'worship', not the lousy performance!

Priceless stuff, Foolstroupe - though I fear you're not alone in such thinking...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 08:27 AM

Insane Beard

You would NOT mean that I love lousy performances, I hope!

Although I must confess to having several LPs by "The Portsmouth Sinfonia" ... wonder if they did any more that didn't make to Aus... or any CDs.... :-) Some of the funniest stuff I ever listened to - truly in the style of "Coarse Music"... AND they were SO SINCERE.... :-)


For those who don't get the reference 'Coarse Music' - Google "The Art of Coarse Acting by Michael Green" to give you an understanding of the concept of 'Coarse Performance' of anything - I fear that I may enjoy BEING a Coarse Muso far too much for my own good.... :-)

Perhaps our friend WAV is trying to champion a Lost Art - or perhaps one that SHOULD be lost...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 08:31 AM

Just to help you get started...

Michael Green (humorist)

Also attributed to Michael Green is the theatre style of Coarse Acting. A coarse actor is "one who can remember his lines, but not the order in which they come. One who performs . . . amid lethal props. The Coarse Actor's aim is to upstage the rest of the cast. His hope is to be dead by Act Two so that he can spend the rest of his time in the bar. His problems? Everyone else connected with the production." (Michael Green)

Thus you can work out what a "Coarse Muso" would be.... :-)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 09:32 AM

As folkies, we keep trying tell, via the repetition of a melody, in an earthier timbre than what a classical or pop singer might cultivate - and whether you call it coarser or not FT, I for one definetly prefer that folkie way. When singing hymns, however, I too at least try to sing with a sweeter/"Sunday-best" voice.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 09:51 AM

WAV,

You have not only missed the bus, but also the planet with your lack of understanding of "Coarse Music".

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 10:27 AM

That is how you achieve an other-worldly sound...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 12:04 PM

It's apes and sevres vases time again!

How is that a folk song, WAV?

I could believe that WAV's posts were being changed. He has made a lot of enemies, but what I find hard to swallow is why change surfeit to surteit, surely there are more effective ways of wreaking havoc.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 12:17 PM

I think the discussion-demon(s), Volgadon, may also have closed some of the threads, that left more than just yours truly head-scratching.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: s&r
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 12:24 PM

WAV - I can't quite understand your post of 9.32 above. The second sentence is OK but the first one is lacking subject or object or something.

Stu

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 12:41 PM

Here is a long build-up to a question.
Let's invent a Frenchman. Call him Francois Davout. He was born in a Parisian suburb but at a very early age his family moved to Quebec. He recieved a degree in ethnography from an university there, travels a bit and at last decides to repatraite himself to France. He becomes a fanatical devotee of all things French and true. He even throws out all his Tintins and Lucky Lukes and won't sing along to Aznavour or Macias. He is smitten with traditional French song, before the corrupting influences of Stivell and Malicorne. He writes verses, calls himself les Chants au'Pied (pardon my appalling and nonexistant French) and opens up a myspace page, posting homemade recordings of himself singing French trad leaned from old records, top-line melody only. He loves Au Clair de Lune. My question is, should he sound like this?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Gene Burton
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 02:58 PM

I rather like the phrase "trying tell"; it has a pleasing onomatopea (sic- I think) to it. Though I'm buggered if I know what it means...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 03:20 PM

To Stu: if you could listen to "When I Survey the Wonderous Cross" and "The Water is Wide" on myspace , and focus on the timbre of my voice (rather than the keyboard accompaniment), I hope you'll get what I mean.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 04:47 PM

You would NOT mean that I love lousy performances, I hope!

My problem, Foolstroupe, is that you think the recordings of so-called source singers are somehow lousy.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 10:37 PM

"you think the recordings of so-called source singers are somehow lousy"

I think that the 'recordings' are fine for the technology of the day.

Some of the singers, recorded well past their best, really DO sound lousy. They may have sounded great in their younger days, same as some of the old instruments players, suffering the outragesous stings of old age, lack of practice, arthritus, etc too...

"Coarse Music" has nothing to do with a coarse sound, once again WAV reveals that he just doesn't get it - I am beginning to agree with mandotim... BTW, if you haven't READ Michael Green, you have no idea what 'Coarse Performance' means either...

But as I said, it is not their voice or instrument sound, what WHAT they are performing (the CONTENT, not the 'style') that is what the scholars which to preserve. Since WAV says he definitely TRIES to make his voice sound terribly lousy (just imitiate the recorded noise), he should be congratulated, perhaps, for having achieved his aim... but scholars will never remember him for the reasons that he intends...

Does anyone remember the name of the litle old lady who used to hire some place like Albert Hall each year and give a personal concert of warbly tunes all lousily sung?

Now THAT's a REAL Coarse Musician! Just like The Portsmouth Sinfonia!

:-)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 01:42 AM

Yes, well, you still haven't heard Chongo attempt to play the saxophone...

Now THERE is coarse music!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 01:55 AM

I have to revise what I said about what kind of recorders I used to have when I was younger. I didn't have wood recorders made by Aulos (they probably don't even make wood recorders). My baroque recorders were made by Kung.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 01:56 AM

LOL

What tripped my memory was a thread title above the line about Kung Fu.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 02:50 AM

If I was going to make a recommendation for any make of wooden recorder, I think this is the one I would recommend: Moeck.   They're a step up from Kung recorders, but more affordable than makes like von Huene. At least that's how it was when I was playing the recorder seriously.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 04:09 AM

"But as I said, it is not their voice or instrument sound, what WHAT they are performing (the CONTENT, not the 'style') that is what the scholars which to preserve. Since WAV says he definitely TRIES to make his voice sound terribly lousy (just imitiate the recorded noise), he should be congratulated, perhaps, for having achieved his aim... but scholars will never remember him for the reasons that he intends..." (Foolestroupe)...if you're confused, please don't try and confuse others about my attempts/intentions.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 06:40 AM

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: irishenglish - PM
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 10:47 AM

"Voices is great WAV, but it is more of a revival collection-Maddy Prior, Martin Carthy, John K, etc. It is not the same as listening to Harry Cox, Walter Pardon, Fred Jordan, etc. Just as I said in the Glastonbury thread. And unless someone beat me to it, 100 up!"
...Harry Cox, Fred Jordon and other source-singers were on an anthology special "Travelling Folk" programme, BBC, last Saturday, which some of you may be able to get on the BBC iPlayer.
(And thanks for more wooden recorder info., CC.)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 08:36 AM

"
"But as I said, it is not their voice or instrument sound, what WHAT they are performing (the CONTENT, not the 'style') that is what the scholars which to preserve. Since WAV says he definitely TRIES to make his voice sound terribly lousy (just imitiate the recorded noise), he should be congratulated, perhaps, for having achieved his aim... but scholars will never remember him for the reasons that he intends..." (Foolestroupe)...if you're confused, please don't try and confuse others about my attempts/intentions."

I'm not confused at all, and from what they have said publicly, neither are some others, mate.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,s&r without cookie
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 02:27 PM

WAV I listened to the two examples you gave. It didn't clarify the rather convoluted sentence, but in all honesty I probably knew what you were attempting to convey.

As to the examples - I couldn't tell any difference in style or timbre.What I did notice is that you are ducking the high notes; everything towards the top end of your register is flat, by as much as a quarter tone.

Stu

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Jul 08 - 05:45 AM

Re: my post Date: 06 Jul 08 - 03:20 PM, I'm surprised, frankly, Stu - quality aside, I think there's quite a difference in timbre between my folk and hymn singing. But, as for quality, I'll keep your remarks on intonation in mind.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Jul 08 - 09:28 AM

"think there's quite a difference in timbre between my folk and hymn singing"

Sadly, you miss the whole point again - the 'timbre' of the voice is irrelevant and important ... unless it just reveals an untrained voice badly used.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Jul 08 - 09:56 AM

We can all sound more earthy or sweet if we wish to, Foolestroupe, and that's what I understand to be changes in timbre - which I do when I go from folk songs to hymns (here's the link, again).

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 09 Jul 08 - 10:53 AM

You can also sound like a wheezing and spluttering octogenarian from the parish workhouse if you like to.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Jul 08 - 11:09 AM

I guess he likes to....................

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Jul 08 - 04:34 PM

You don't have to take singing lessons, WAV (but it would certainly help!). Just get a good book on singing, vocal techique and such, and learn the meanings of some of the terms you insist on using.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 09 Jul 08 - 04:40 PM

Instead merely quoting them, as if you know what you're talking about (which you don't)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Jul 08 - 05:22 PM

Here's "timbre" in more detail (but NOT at odds with my above understanding) from Wiki..
And are you, Don and Lord, not just trying to lord it over someone, in this case..?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: s&r
Date: 09 Jul 08 - 06:17 PM

I once worked with a guy with almotst non-existent colour vision. He refused to accept that his vision was in any way lacking becauase he saw what he'd always seen.
Perhaps there is such a thing as inborn tone deafness, where you normally hear a different sound to the rest of us.

Stu

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 09 Jul 08 - 06:24 PM

First off Wikipedia is not a reliable source, the accuracy of many of the entries has been called into question, on more than one occasion.

Second off, accusing Don and I of 'lording' it over YOU would be laughable if it wasn't so pathetically hypocritcal on your part, what with your I have this degree and that certificate, I have this website and that myspace space, and your self important attitude, you need to do some self examination before you accuse others!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Jul 08 - 07:57 PM

WAV - Wiki says

"Timbre has been called "a wastebasket category""

which is also where many of your 'eclectic' "Folk Music" concepts unfortunately belong.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Jul 08 - 08:03 PM

"We can all sound more earthy or sweet if we wish to"

But it's kinda funny how those Operatic Singers with their decades of voice training tend to all sound clear, distinct, and of a similar level of clarity with a total lack of buzziness, off-keyness, etc...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Jul 08 - 05:25 AM

For what it's worth, FT, I've enjoyed some opera singing (if not as much as some, in-key/on-song, folk singing), to the point of being moved to song by it! There's a note, above, from a mod. saying I'm only allowed to post one piece/per week here, so here's a link to #130 - "Entree".

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Jul 08 - 10:21 AM

I'm pretty sure that you can post your poems in the context of conversation now. As long as you don't start many threads you were violating no rules. the "one a week rule" looked like another "penile" prank to me. Hopefully the prankster has found someone else to tease.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Jul 08 - 05:58 PM

...Poem cum (very brief) song 130 of 230: ENTRÉE/AT BOLTON'S ALBERT HALL: OPERA SONG - WINTER 2000/1

From novel, and play,
To opera,
La Traviata
Was my entrée...

To a media
I find is a
Fine way to relay
Human drama.

From walkaboutsverse.741.com

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jul 08 - 10:30 AM

Medium

Stu

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Jul 08 - 11:01 AM

THE WEEKLY WALKABOUT, E.G.
(Tad early this week, as I'll be at the Rothbury Traditional Music Festival tomorrow.)

Poem 16 of 230: A BEAUTIFUL STAGE

If a couple, with plans to wed,
    Asked me, off the top of my head,
For somewhere I thought well in tune
    As a place for a honeymoon,
It would have - flashing back - to be
    Beautifully-honed Italy.

From walkaboutsverse.741.com

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 12 Jul 08 - 05:34 PM

Enjoyed my day at Rothbury, by the way - it was a tad damp, but most of the events (comp's and sessions) were indoors, anyway; and, more importantly, on the bus home, I over-heard some first-timers say how much they'd enjoyed their day.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Jul 08 - 07:39 PM

Walking about in a weekly fashion
I nibble on my spartan rations
A bit of watercress on rye
Suffices well for such as I

And in the distance there I see
An owl has perched upon a tree
To take his rest beneath the sun
Now that his nightly work is done

Perchance I'll amble down to Kent
And find a pleasant spot to rent
At which I can on foolscap fashion
New routes for my weekly walking passion

Tis well I have these pleasant hours
To wander here amongst the bowers
With not a care, I have no worry
And that is why I never hurry

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 13 Jul 08 - 07:16 AM

Out yesterday, home today - just enjoyed your poem, thanks, LH.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 19 Jul 08 - 06:57 AM

THE WEEKLY WALKABOUT, E.G.
The Open is on at Birkdale, hence...

Poem 221 of 230: MAJORS

If golf taps the world for its players
    (And few would deny that so),
Why, then, are three of four majors
    A United States Tour show?

From walkaboutsverse.741.com

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Jul 08 - 02:39 PM

A tad early this week as I'm out tomorrow at the Durham Folk Party -
THE WEEKLY WALKABOUT, E.G...

Poem 48 of 230: THE PROMS

We walked through Kensington Gardens,
    Then made a left for Albert Hall.
Promenaders were in their tens,
    While others had found their stall,
As we took our pre-booked seats.
    The seats were of restricted view -
Three-quarters of the orchestra.
    But the music sure bettered par:
The beautiful sounds of Mozart;
    The daring drama of Ravel.
And we liked it - me and a belle.

From walkaboutsverse.741.com

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Amos
Date: 25 Jul 08 - 03:00 PM

I do not care for rhythm much,
Or scansion, depth, or human touch,
And beauty is not much my suite,
I'd rather write about my feet.

My feet go forth, across the hills,
Through valleys, mountains, streams and rills,
And up and down each village street;
My being hinges on these feet.

I wrap them up in socks of cotton
And change them when the smell turns rotten;
Oh, keep true love, and spring's sweet breeze
And let me have feet such as these!

These feet are firm, and stout, and strong,
One third as wide as they are long,
And unlike dreams of love and palaces,
My feet are real, and lined with callouses.

Oh, keep the love that makes hearts quail,
Give my yellowed, ragged nails!
And no perfume want I as sweet
As that which rises from these feet!

And while yon poets Truth are stalking,
My shoes and feet will stick with walking,
On ordinary path and street,
No heart need I, for I have feet!

Archflat Peduncle,
Songs for Tired Feet5
Little Leathery Booklets, Fowkus-on-Toeses, 1987