Guitar-Buying Advice

Subject: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: bbelle
Date: 09 Sep 99 - 04:41 PM

Okay ... many of you know that I have a 30+ year old Gibson B25, which I absolutely adore! I have, however, been reading all the guitar threads and am feeling strongly that I should have a "travel" guitar. I discovered ebay.com today and checked out their guitars, in what I consider an affordable range for me, now. Tell me what you think of the following and the minimum bids:

APPLAUSE AA-32 ... $55.00 YAMAHA FG75 w/ CASE & DIGITAL TUNER ... $75.00 JOHNSON DREADNAUGHT ... $59.00 OVATION AA51-4 ... $75.00 JOHNSON 610 ... $50.00 EPIPHONE PR-350 ... $75.00 EPIPHONE PR-100 ... $75.00

thanks ... moonchild

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Sep 99 - 04:53 PM

Everybody bitches about Ovation, but they travel well and some older ones have an excellent sound.....Not too bad a price on the Epiphone.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: Songster Bob
Date: 09 Sep 99 - 05:02 PM

Of the ones listed, I'd check out the Epiphones first, but wouldn't go much higher. Look closely at photos, check on shipping (you'll add up to $20 for that alone), and with till last minute to bid. Bid what you're comfortable with, and don't get into a bidding war, 'cause you'll end up over budget for sure. Try seeing if local stores have similar models, so you can see what a similar instrument feels and looks like. If they don't "turn you on," wait for another auction. There are lots of 'em, every day, and you don't have to bid today if you're not sure you want it. And good luck!

Bob Clayton

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: bbelle
Date: 09 Sep 99 - 11:27 PM

Thanks, guys. Anymore advice out there? moonchild

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: Bert
Date: 10 Sep 99 - 09:00 AM

I've had a Yamaha for years, I love it.

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: Allan C.
Date: 10 Sep 99 - 09:33 AM

I have had a few Yamaha's too and never found them to be especially lacking in any significant way. But, I am easy to please. It doesn't seem like so very long ago that I had a piece-of-junk import with frets so high and rough that barre chords and bleeding were the cost of playing it. So nowadays, nearly any guitar looks pretty good to me. My main requirements are that it stay in tune for at least a few minutes at a time and that I can hear all of the strings when I pick them.

My favorite guitar that I have ever owned is one I picked up for $15 dollars at the Salvation Army. It is gut strung and was made in Czechoslovakia.

I suppose all of this might possibly disqualify me as someone who could give good advice on guitars. But I agree with Bob in that if you haven't actually held it in your hands, (or one like it,) don't buy it.

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: Neil Lowe
Date: 10 Sep 99 - 09:39 AM

Being an Ovation owner...I'm kind of partial to them...I have small hands and its relatively thin neck fits well into them....Ovations are cheap enough that if you scratch them it's no major catastrophe, yet imbued with enough quality to keep you interested and motivated. The sound quality is good. Plus, like 'Spaw says, they're rugged....mine has been shipped from 95 degree jungle heat to -21 January in Colorado and the only thing it suffered was a crack in the laminated finish.... I've had my "entry level" Ovation for 15 years and still haven't outgrown it....but then again, I'm not a good guitar player either. The round back causes problems if you are "round" yourself, because the guitar wants to slip out of your lap....but Ovations are a good enough guitar to me that that is in itself an incentive to control my weight...

I also own an Epiphone (electric, however) and for a midpriced guitar (which is $400-800 U.S. in my book) I am very satisfied. The neck is its most redeeming feature...the tuning system its worst. The tuning pegs seem to have a lot of "play" or slack, in them.

If it were me, then, I'd bid on the Eppy or the Ovation....the prices on either don't sound too bad to me.

Happy bidding...Neil

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: Mudjack
Date: 10 Sep 99 - 10:00 AM

I'd stay with the Gibson B-25. You can count on it playing and sounding well. Care has to be taken when camping.I've never been happy with a "camping guitar" My main ax goes where I go. It's always faithful and reliable.
Mudjack

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: bbelle
Date: 10 Sep 99 - 10:33 AM

Here's another questions ... what does "dreadnaught" mean as applied to a guitar? moonchild

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: Bert
Date: 10 Sep 99 - 10:42 AM

big

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: bbelle
Date: 10 Sep 99 - 11:03 AM

"Big" ... that's what I was afraid of! With my short arms, I'd have to have extensions! Well ... I was going to try to get another guitar before the fsgw getaway, but think I will do some "personal" research before I buy one, i.e., handling and seeing which one I like best. Reckon I'll be bringing my Gibby to the getaway, but I do want one to take on "real" camping trips. I am continually amazed at the wealth of knowledge and info on the mudcat and it's wonderful to be able to "tap" into it ... moonchild

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: Peter T.
Date: 10 Sep 99 - 11:42 AM

I am not expert but I think anyone who would buy a guitar they hadn't had in their hands would be asking for trouble, whatever the price. This may also be why computer dating makes no sense to me.
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: bbelle
Date: 10 Sep 99 - 11:46 AM

I agree with you, although I know several people who have bought instruments via ebay.com and are very happy with them. I also agree with you about computer dating ... it would sort of be like buying a pig in a poke ... moonchild

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Sep 99 - 11:51 AM

Hi Moon.......As Bert said Dreadnoughts are larger sized with less waist...the classis Martin that most people think of like the D-28 (D meaning Dreadnought). There are several makers using different "codes" for sizing, but the most commonly used is the basic Martin system of (from small to large) O,OO,OM,OOO,OOOO(M),D,J(Jumbo). The numbers represent a difference in dimension of not only width at the upper bout, lower bout, and waist, but also depth and some variations in shape as well. You also consider neck scale and width when choosing another guitar. Since you're used to one, another may feel very different. Different sizes have different tonal qualities also and then it IS important to take your body into consideration. Does the guitar fit you? Sometimes people get used to a guitar that is not a great fit, but becomes so after "getting used to it." (I think of Emmylou Harris who almost always uses a Jumbo) Playing that B, you're unlikely to find that a dreadnought is comfortable.

Try before you buy. If you have played the same model that you're looking to buy sight unseen, at least you know something about the "general" characteristics of sound and fit, but it is always a risk to buy sight and heard unseen.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: Chet W.
Date: 10 Sep 99 - 08:12 PM

I agree with taking the instrument you love to festivals and such where you camp. But if you want one for regular camping, I'd take the Ovation, even though I normally don't like them because many minor repairs are impossible because of the space-age ultra glue that they put them together with. But that is the very thing that might make them good for camping. They are relatively hard to crash, and you can't go too far wrong for $75, but I would get some idea about the action first (beyond the adjustability of the neck, it's almost impossible to adjust).

I have an old one that I'm going to convert into an acoustic guitar-cello. Will report success or lack of it.

Chet

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 10 Sep 99 - 10:57 PM

Hi Moonchild. I've been off the Cat for a few days for personal reasons, but this looked like a good place to jump back in. Buying an instrument before playing it really seems risky to me. Now granted there are dozens of things I look for in an instrument before I would consider it even on the short-list. And I don't mean only in "high-end" stuff. Two weeks ago I found an absolute diamond in the rough, in a used instrument store. It looked like the standard Korean import from a few feet away, but 'cause I know a little about these things I made a bee-line to it. It was one of a few very high quality Japanese "Martin knock-offs" made in the early seventies. Beautiful aged spruce top, abalone and pearl hand-inlayed "tree of life" design on the neck, and a lovely very "Martin D-41 look and sound". During this period the Japanese companies were seriously competing with Martin (and totally copying their "look". This instrument (which I've now purchased) should certainly be worth around a 1000 dollars, but my price was closer to 150.
If I were you I'd try and get an experienced guitarist to go hunt one down for you (even if they live in another city). You could explain exactly what you want (body size, neck width, bassy or trebly or mid-rage, as far as sound, and give them a bottom line price-wise. If you lived in Toronto (or near by) Michael Miland or I would probably love to find you a low priced gem. That's the fun part!

Good luck

Rick

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: DonMeixner
Date: 10 Sep 99 - 11:05 PM

I would go for the Epiphone or the Yamaha if I were buying a camper from the list you show. I, on the other hand, view Ovations as the bottom of the food chain and not worth serious consideration at any price other than free. I also agree with Mud' take the Gibson and take care of it while camping.

Don

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: bbelle
Date: 10 Sep 99 - 11:21 PM

I've decided to take everyone's advice. I'm not going to be in a hurry to do this and I will try some different guitars to see how they fit and sound. Then I'm going to decide what my top price is and will definitely elicit help from a guitar player/buyer. Rick ... that's a very good idea and really Toronto is not such a long way from Tallahassee, as the crow flies... moonchild

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: MichaelM
Date: 10 Sep 99 - 11:50 PM

To add to Rick's post: Rick or I or both would love to play guitar safari for you. We know most of the store owners in this city and can screw deals out of them.

Michael

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 11 Sep 99 - 12:11 AM

Or Michael could sell you one of his "campin' and travellin' Laskins. Shouldn't cost more than 5 or 6 grand.

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: bbelle
Date: 11 Sep 99 - 10:22 AM

Wish we had the internet and this wonderful mudcat network 25 years ago ... I would probably never have stopped performing ... but, as I believe, things happen for a reason, and back then I loved performing and the accolades, but I'm not sure the passion and love for the music was there. Now, I'm a bit older and wiser, and I'm going back in because of the music ... moonchild

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 11 Sep 99 - 12:40 PM

Moonchild, glad to have you back. And the ratio of good to bad folk people is still the same. You meet nine great ones for every DORK! Still much better than the national average.

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Sep 99 - 04:38 AM

..........And now that you've met me, Rick, Swan, Mick, Leej, Banj, Bert, Mario, Zimmy, and Joe Offer...............Well now you know you're going to meet at least 99 REALLY FINE FOLKS!!!!

Yeah, I know the math don't seem right, but Joe counts for two.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: Easy Rider
Date: 12 Sep 99 - 10:43 AM

Moonchild:

As I understand it, the Gibson B-25 was a very cheap, student guitar, in its time. Granted, the years have mellowed it, and it has sentimental value to you, but it may not be worth enough for you to worry very much about. It is not sought after by collectors. You should have it appraised by a knowledgable dealer, to put it in perspective.

The B-25 is also a small bodied guitar, @14 1/4" across the lower bout, similar to a Martin 0 or 00 size. If that size is what you are comfortable with, then stay away from dreadnoughts and jumbos. I'm bigger than you, but I'm still much more comfortable with my OM (000) size guitar, with its 15" lower bout, than I ever was with my 16", Gibson J-50 dreadnought. It's not just the inch or so. The whole guitar is smaller, shallower and easier to wrap my arms around.

EZR

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: bbelle
Date: 12 Sep 99 - 11:50 AM

Easy Rider ... Tread carefully ... the B-25 is a collectible and worth a few thousand. I've mad many Martin owners lay down their Martins to play my small, lowly, cheap, student guitar Gibson B-25. And, these were big men and accomplished musicians, who apparently didn't think they were venturing to the other side of the tracks to play my sentimental little guitar ... moonchild

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 12 Sep 99 - 12:06 PM

In an effort to grab a few young folks away from Rock and Roll, Gibson (and their subsidiary, Epiphone) started making some REALLY thin necks at the beginning of the 60s. Although they had huge problems with sinking tops (resulting in a number of years of over-bracing to cut down on the free warrenty work) these tiny necks tended to stand the test of time, and for anyone with small hands looking for ease of playing, finding one of these small old Gibsons is like discovering gold. The stores are catching on though. Prices are headin' up!

Rick

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: bbelle
Date: 12 Sep 99 - 12:17 PM

Rick ... thanks you for putting it eloquently. I was heading "over the edge" and decided clicking on "submit" was the better part of valor ... moonchild

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: Mudjack
Date: 12 Sep 99 - 05:25 PM

Putting monetary values is much like putting a price tag on your favorite pet. I'm still wondering why anyone would sacrifice quality sound when out camping. Camping should'nt be a reason to leave your favorite instrument home. It feels good, sounds good and by habit you will enjoy your outing more using your Gibson, if it is that valuable, maybe leaving it in the case forever to preserve it's antiquity value is more important.
You have a beautiful instrument, use it. If you have to constantly worry about it's value and possibility of damaging it while out and about, then you are moving in the right direction. I got rid of 4 different Martins over the years and frankly feel better about ridding myself of the "worry, worry worry" crap that goes with toting an expensive instrument around. Glad they're gone because it was much harder to leave them home in their cases than not having them with me when I needed them. Going to different music camps I see the best of instruments come out, the listening ears even at a campgroud deserve the sweet sounds of that Gibson.
Mudjack

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: bbelle
Date: 12 Sep 99 - 05:40 PM

Mudjack ... thanks! I heartily agree. I've toted my Gibson many thousands of miles over the years and always knew what it was going to sound like and what it was going to do when I needed it. Of course, years ago, I could run it through baggage and really didn't feel a need to worry. I wouldn't do that now, but we're in different times. Come to think of it, though, it appears baggage handlers are more concerned with dope that with a guitar, as far as stealing it is concerned. As you say ... it's my main axe ... and deserves to be heard ... moonchild

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 12 Sep 99 - 07:23 PM

I'm thinking of buying a "Blues king" remake Gibson that the fretted Instroment of amherst has ..It might be $1000.00 but its new..Thats what I would use as my travel around guitar...It sounds wonderfull and needs some serious playing to break it in!!!All thoughs old Martins and Gibsons that sound so good got that way after 1452 square dances and bar gigs in a row...Crazy I know but someone needs to open them up...Make them live!! It's only money...Ah well nice dream anyway<<<>>>>> Good luck getting something great>>>Cheers Guy

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: DougR
Date: 13 Sep 99 - 11:57 AM

Anybody know anything good or bad about a Yamaha model G231-2? A fellow is advertising it for sale for $75 with a case. I haven't seen the instrument and thought I might ask for advice about that particular model before making the trip. He said it has no cracks or blemishes. He does not play himself and he bought it at an auction.

Thanks,

DougR

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: Easy Rider
Date: 13 Sep 99 - 12:45 PM

Moonchild!

Relax. I am not discounting your guitar's value to YOU. It may indeed be very sweet sounding and easy to play.

The B-25 was made from 1960 to 1977, and I think they all had bolted on bridges, maybe made of plastic or wood, all with adjustable porcelain saddles. Does that describe YOUR guitar? My 1964 Gibson J-50, which I bought new, for $125 (What did your B-25 cost?), and value highly, on the sentimental scale, was made that way.

In the Summer of 1998, I had the plastic, adjustable bridge removed and replaced by a standard, glued on only, solid ebony bridge, with a fixed saddle. I can not begin to tell you about the vast improvement in tone, volume and sustain that this simple modification produced! It astounded me. I highly reccommend it, if you really like your guitar. You won't be sorry. Just find a competant luthier, to do it!

Enjoy, EZR

Subject: RE: Guitar-Buying Advice
From: DougR
Date: 13 Sep 99 - 12:50 PM

Sorry folks, forget the question about the Yamaha guitar I requested information about. I called the fellow back to get more details and learned that he has a Classic Yamaha for sale. I don't need another classic guitar.

DougR