Origins: Philadelphia Lawyer

Subject: Philadelphia Lawyer
From: MandolinPaul
Date: 25 Jul 99 - 09:08 AM

Does anyone know the lyrics to this Woody Guthrie song. The first verse is something like:

Way out in Reno, Nevada
Where the romances bloom and fade
There was a Philadelphia lawyer
Making love to a Hollywood maid


Also, I've been told that a "Philadelphia lawyer" used to be the term for a con-man. Is this true, or did Woody just not like lawyers from Philadelphia. I suppose the latter is a definite possibility.

P.

Subject: RE: Philadelphia Lawyer
From: MandolinPaul
Date: 25 Jul 99 - 09:09 AM

Whoops! Just found it in the database. Sorry.

P.

Subject: RE: Philadelphia Lawyer
From: Sourdough
Date: 25 Jul 99 - 10:58 AM

I wondered about "Philadelphia Lawyers", too, but couldn't find anything definitive. Clearly Woody Guthrie was not a fan of the legal profession, distrusting anyone with the power to make change based on cold law and interpretation of regulation rather than on the justice of a particular instance. He wrote that wonderful line in Pretty Boy Floyd about the two kinds of thieves, "One will rob you with a six-gun, one with a fountain pen". Anyway, I have seen period references to Philadelphia Lawyers meaning "sharpies", people who push the law for their personal reasons, especially greed and power, without regard for justice so we know that the term didn't originate with Woody Guthrie.

I'll bet the Philadelphia Folk Society has tracked this down!

Sourdough

Subject: RE: Philadelphia Lawyer
From: Frank of Toledo
Date: 25 Jul 99 - 01:27 PM

This, from the notes of "This Land Is Your Land", The Ash Recordings, Vol. l, on Folkways CD

...." In the summer of 1937, Woody Guthrie and his cousin Jack Guthrie landed jobs on a radio show over KFVD, Hollywood, California. Jack left the show, and a mutual friend, "Lefty Lou" Crissman, became Woody's singing partner on the "Woody and Left Show." One day she showed Woody a newspaper article about a jealous cowboy shooting a "Philadelphia Lawyer" in Reno, Nevada (during Woody's time, the term meant a shyster or am ambulance chaser). Woody thought it was funny - a cowboy shooting a lawyer. Originally calling it "Reno Blues" he apparently set his words to the traditional American Ballad, "Jealous Lover(Florella)' (Laws F1). He included it in the song book WOODY AND LEFTY LOU'S FAVORITE COLLECTION OF OLDTIME HILL COUNTRY SONGS (Gardena, Ca: Spanish American Institute Press,circa 1937, P 8. Woody and Jack Guthrie sang it in bars, Rose Maddox learned it from their singing. She & her brothers entertained and recorded as "The Maddox Brothers and Rose", and "Philadelphia Lawyer" became a popular song when they recoroded it with Rose doing the vocal (Four Star 1289, 1949). I'm pulling out the guitar now and re-learning an old but great gem. Thanks for bringing the Philadelphia Lawyer back to me. Woody" recording of this date was done on 19 April l944 on Folkways "The Original Vision" Smithsonian Folkways SF 40001.

Subject: Lyr Add: PHILADELPHIA LAWYER (Woody Guthrie)
From: Bugsy
Date: 25 Jul 99 - 10:17 PM

G'day from Australia.
It's years since I sung this song, maybe 1967-8 back in the UK, but as I remember the words they go something like this:

PHILADELPHIA LAWYER
(Woody Guthrie)

Way out in Reno Nevada
Were the romances bloom and fade
There was a Philadelphia lawyer
Makin' love to a Hollywood maid

Come love and we'll go rambling
Down where the lights are so bright
I'll win you a divorce from your husband
And we can get married tonight

Now Bill was a gun-totin' cowhand
Ten notches was carved on his gun
And all of the boys around Reno
Left Bill's Hollywood sweetheart alone

One night when Bill was returning
From riding the range in the cold
He was thinkin' of his Hollywood sweetheart
Her love was as lasting as gold

As he drew near to her window
Two shadows he saw on her shade
'Twas the great Philadelphia lawyer
Makin' love to Bill's Hollywood maid

The night was as still as the desert
The moon hangin' high overhead
Bill listened awhile at the window
He could hear every word that they said

"Your hands are so purty and lovely
And your form is so rare and divine
Come go back with me to Philadelphia
And leave this vile cowboy behind

Now tonight back in old Pennsylvania
Amongst her beautiful pines
There's one less Philadelphia lawyer
In old Philadelphia tonight.

Subject: Origins: Philadelphia Lawyer
From: GUEST,Inukshuk
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 09:19 AM

There are all sorts of claims that Woody wrote this song based on a newspaper article. I have not been able to come up with that particular item. I'd sure like to get the exact details of the newspaper's name, the date, and hopefully the text. I would also love to discover the final outcome. Was Bill ever brought to justice? What became of the two-timing Hollywood maiden?

Subject: RE: Origins: Philadelphia Lawyer
From: Louie Roy
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 10:53 AM

As far as I can determine Rose Maddox wrote and recorded this song.Anyway if she didn't she made a big hit out of it in the late 1940s.Don maddox still lives in Ashland Oregon and he belongs to the Oregon Old Time Fiddlers so the next time I see him I will try to find out more details Louie Roy

Subject: RE: Origins: Philadelphia Lawyer
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 11:17 AM

Woody Guthrie wrote this one.

Subject: RE: Origins: Philadelphia Lawyer
From: GUEST,Inukshuk
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 02:22 PM

Yup, Woody wrote it and Rose made it a big hit. I'd just like to get the actual facts of the case.

Subject: RE: Origins: Philadelphia Lawyer
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 03:18 PM

Go to the library of Congress site and go to the "search by keyword". Type in "Philadelphia" and you can read Woody's own words about the song.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: Origins: Philadelphia Lawyer
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 03:19 PM

Should have said: Type in "Philadelphia" in the "Searc Full text" box.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: Origins: Philadelphia Lawyer
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 04:01 PM

I do this song often. I think Woody left the ending a bit to the person's imagination on purpose, but it would seem that the lawyer never made it back to Philadelphia.
There was a PBS special about Woody in which Rose tells a bit about the song, but it was mostly about how she got it from Woody. It was a very big hit for her and her brothers, but she said that they made no money from it, except for the fame. I guess Woody was not the only one screwed by the record companies.
       Sandy

Subject: RE: Origins: Philadelphia Lawyer
From: GUEST,Inukshuk
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 07:55 PM

Great information. Thanks folks.
I was always under the impression that the song was about an actual murder. If that is the case, I'm hunting for dates, names and sordid details. I always like to include a bit of history when I present a song like this.

Subject: RE: Origins: Philadelphia Lawyer
From: open mike
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 10:15 PM

I remember this song as done by Peter Rowan.

Subject: RE: Origins: Philadelphia Lawyer
From: open mike
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 01:04 AM

Philadelphia Lawyer

Subject: RE: Origins: Philadelphia Lawyer
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 01:20 AM

Not much in the Traditional Ballad Index:

Philadelphia Lawyer, The

DESCRIPTION: "Way out in Reno, Nevada," the Philadelphia lawyer courts a "Hollywood maid." He tries to convince her to come back to Philadelphia with him. But her husband Bill, discovering them, kills the lawyer
AUTHOR: Words: Woody Guthrie (tune: The Jealous Lover)
EARLIEST DATE: 1937 (composed)
KEYWORDS: homicide lawyer courting derivative cowboy infidelity
FOUND IN: US
REFERENCES (2 citations):
Greenway-AmericanFolksongsOfProtest, pp. 283-284, "The Philadelphia Lawyer" (1 text)
DT, PHILALAW*
Roud #500
RECORDINGS:
Woody Guthrie & Cisco Houston, "Philadelphia Lawyer" (on OrigVis, CowFolkCD1)
Maddox Bros. & Rose, "Philadelphia Lawyer" (on Four Star 1289, 1949)
ALTERNATE TITLES:
Reno Blues
NOTES [32 words]: In one of the strangest lumps I've seen, Roud classifies this with the "Florella" family [Laws F1]. That, of course, provided some inspiration, but the actual text is pure Woody Guthrie. - RBW
File: Grnw283

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Subject: ADD Version: Philadelphia Lawyer
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 02:11 AM

I was looking for definitive lyrics for this song. It's not in the [Nearly] Complete Collection of Woody Guthrie Folk Songs (1963), and it's not in Hard-Hitting Songs for Hard-Hit People. It is in my Hal Leonard Woody Guthrie Songbook, with lyrics that are almost the same as Bugsy's version above, and the (only slightly different) version in the DT. John Greenway has a version in his American Folksongs of Protest (1953) that's quite different:


Philadelphia Lawyer
(Woody Guthrie)

Way out in Reno, Nevada,
Where romances bloom and fade,
A great Philadelphia lawyer
Fell in love with a Hollywood maid.

"Your face is so lovely and pretty,
Your form so fair and divine;
Come with me to the big city,
And leave this wild cowboy behind."

Wild Bill was a gun-toting cowboy;
Six notches were carved on his gun.
All the boys around Reno, Nevada,
Left Wild Bill's sweetheart alone.

One night when Bill was returning
Out from the desert so cold,
He dreamed of his Hollywood sweetheart,
Whose love was as lasting as gold.

As he drew near to her window,
Two shadows he saw on the shade;
'Twas the great Philadelphia lawyer,
Making love to his Hollywood maid.

The night was as still as the desert,
With the moon hanging high overhead.
He listened awhile to the lawyer,
He could hear every word that he said.

"Come, love, and we will wander
Down where the lights are so bright.
I'll win you a divorce from your husband
And we can get married tonight."

Tonight in old Pennsylvania
Beneath the whispering pines
There's one less Philadelphia lawyer
in old Philadelphia tonight.

source: American Folksongs of Protest, John Greenway (1953)

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So, we have three versions now - but I don't think I'm satisfied that we've found a definitive Woody Guthrie version. Anybody have a Woody recording of the song? I know it's on the Asch recordings and on a few Woody compilations.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Origins: Philadelphia Lawyer
From: GUEST,Heavy Thumb
Date: 10 Dec 21 - 12:38 PM

I added a last verse to remove any doubt:

Back In Reno Nevada
Bill sits on the porch with his wife
He's carving a notch in his six gun
Tm mark the end of the lawyer's life

Subject: RE: Origins: Philadelphia Lawyer
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 10 Dec 21 - 06:18 PM

And nobody ever found the 'real' newspaper article? Hmmmm, a fantasy?
Petioner/Plaintiff – Mary Esta (Jennings) Guthrie
Philadelphia lawyer – William Maxwell Burke
Cowboy – Woodrow Wilson Guthrie

Standard Guthrie bio:
Guthrie and Mary divorced in 1940….

Divorce was difficult, since Mary was a member of the Catholic Church, but she reluctantly agreed in December 1943….

...While appearing on the radio station KFVD, owned by a populist-minded New Deal Democrat, Frank W. Burke*.… [wiki](Cray mostly)

IIRC the divorce was filed in 1940 and finalized in '43… in Nevada… with the legal aid of one William Maxwell Burke. That would be Frank's brother; co-owner of KFVD; Los Angeles Asst. District Attorney and a behind-the-scenes player in Woody's obscene letters/harrassment conviction in L.A..

The elder Burke also taught at the Wharton School of Commerce and Finance, University of Pennsylvania (1906-1907.) That would be in Philadelphia.


* wiki article link is to the wrong F.W. Burke.