Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8

Subject: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 04:40 PM

I don't know if this will be allowed to stay on Mudcat...I sincerely hope it will.

I've just finished watching the videos on the Live 8 site and I felt that the link should be on Mudcat....and hopefully it will be passed on by loads of people TO loads of people.

It was the little baby girl who sleeps on the streets in the 'Toddlers' film that broke my heart....she's not yet two, but she can't walk as rats have bitten her toes. And Lenny Henry saying that "People are dying because they're too poor to live!" and Nelson Mandela telling people "Do not look the other way" And the two little boys who broke down in tears when they were talking of their Mum who had just died of Aids, how they didn't know what to do without her, and their Dad was sick too....he died a few weeks later.

So...please..if you've got a few minutes to spare, take a look at the site. Remember that 8 people in this world can make a vast difference to the people in those films and for hundreds of thousands of others. But those 8 people, the most 'important' leaders in the world, WON'T change things unless we DEMAND that they do!!

You can e mail Tony Blair from that site, the message is already written out for you, just put your e mail address in and 'send'. That's all you have to do, to add your name to the vast waterfall of people around the world who are trying to stop all this madness.

As Lenny said "If enough people make themselves heard, then the world can change forever!" Help them do it! They can't do it without us and we all need to change the way this world is.

I say this at the beginning of the Wimbledon Tennis tournament tomorrow, when one of the top young girl players will be appearing in a pair of trainers that Nike have spent £500,000.00 making. They are made with pure gold you see, with Maria's name picked out in pure gold on her heels.

Meanwhile, in Africa, another young girl, who has her bed on the pavement, has rats at her toes....not gold on her heels.

We need to change things!....Oh we SO need to change things!

Here's the site, the first is direct into the videos, the second is the main site:

http://www.makepovertyhistory.org/video/

http://www.live8live.com/

"Every 3 seconds......a child dies."

But for the Grace of God, that child could be mine...it could be yours....but we are the lucky ones, aren't we.

"Do not look the other way"

Lizzie x

Subject: Lyr Add: HOW LONG (Jackson Browne)
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 04:47 PM

I also wanted to say that today I watched Christy Moore singing Jackson Browne's song "How Long?" and how much I wished that Bob Geldorf had included people from the Folk World in his list of artists. The way that Christy interprets that song is wonderful.

That song, for me, encompasses what Live 8 is about. If those 8 Leaders were sat down and made to hear Christy singing it whilst watching those videos....well...who knows what might happen!!

Here are the lyrics:

"How Long?"
by Jackson Browne

When you look into a child's face
And you're seeing the human race
And the endless possibilities there
Where so much can come true
And you think of the beautiful things
A child can do
How long -- would the child survive
How long -- if it was up to you

When you think about the money spent
On defense by a government
And the weapons of destruction we've built
We're so sure that we need
And you think of the millions and millions
That money could feed
How long -- can you hear someone crying
How long -- can you hear someone dying
Before you ask yourself why?

And how long will we hear people speaking
About missiles for peace
And just let it go by
How long will they tell us these weapons
Are keeping us free
That's a lie
If you saw it from a satellite
With its green and its blue and white
The beauty of the curve of the earth
And its oceans below
You might think it was paradise
If you didn't know
You might think that it's turning
But it's turning so slow

How long -- can you hear someone crying
How long -- can you hear someone dying
Before you ask yourself why?
And how long will it be 'till we've turned
To the tasks and the skills
That we'll have to have learned
If we're going to find our place in the future
And have something to offer
Where this planet's concerned
How long?

Lizzie x

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: s6k
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 04:49 PM

Videos

Main Site

make poverty history

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: s6k
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 04:50 PM

i love that song too.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 04:57 PM

how much I wished that Bob Geldorf (sic) had included people from the Folk World

What is at issue is that no African musicans were included in the original line-up. Now they have been thrown the sop of their own concert, safely out of the way in some greenhouse in Cornwall. How fucking patronising. The aim of Live 8 (unlike Live Aid) is to raise consciousness, not money. There is not even the 'excuse' of needing to book so-called 'high profile' acts.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 04:58 PM

Thanks heaps for doing that ((((s6k))))

You can always rely on Mudcatters!

Lizzie x

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 05:56 PM

Dear 'Guest' above,

I've been to Eden...it is, quite simply Beautiful! An extraordinary place. Yet, just a few years ago it was just a hole in the ground, a gravel pit. Tim Smit had the vision and the courage to go ahead and do something when everyone around him told him it would never work. Bob Geldof tends to do the same.

Lets leave any form of anger or hatred out of this thread, please....keep that for the politicians who have had the power to do so much for so long and have turned away, back to their fine houses and their fine troublefree lives.

I can think of no better place for Peter Gabriel's WOMAD acts to take place. Eden shows what can be done in the face of insurmountable odds. And at night, the three huge domes are lit with floodlights of many beautiful colours against the velvet black backdrop of the vast bowl of hills all around them. Those lights shine up through The Domes to the stars, illuminating plants and trees from all around the world, shining on the waterfalls, the rainforest and the desert.

It is simply magical....it will be the most wondrous venue of any of the Live 8 concerts anywhere in the world and to see people like Tinariwen playing there will be incredibly special. It will put Hyde Park in the shade...as will many of the acts that will be appearing at Eden.

But I agree with you, the big acts should not be what Live 8 is about.
And the African artists should be as much in Hyde Park as they are all around the world. We are all one people. The sooner we all get to realise that the better the world will be. However, I think that Eden is by far the best venue of them all and just for one night it will belong to all those great artists appearing there and the people who go to watch it. And somehow, to have them all in one place brings a very much more powerful message than if all those acts were in different places. It will have far more impact.

Live 8 is really about all of the people who have too much helping all of those who don't have anything.....ordinary people, like us, taking control. It should also be about powerful songs that have the where-with-all to make people think.....and a lot of those songs are to be found in the folk world amongst our poets and our protest singers...because my word....do we need to protest about what is going on in this world right now!!!

So why not re-direct your anger to the Live 8 site and get your e mail on the way. Make a difference where it will actually help.

By the way, here is the Eden Project site and the list of great artists appearing there. I wish I was going.....it will be fantastic!

http://www.edenproject.com/245.htm

http://www.live8live.com/theconcerts/index.shtml

I need my Blue Clicky Angel again! :0)

And I'll leave you with some words I heard yesterday from someone's site who is also a Mudcatter...'El Greko'...otherwise known as George Papavgeris...

"In countryside like this, your God comes out to greet you. In hills and trees and stones and streams and waterfalls he's there. If you just take a look around you cannot help but wonder. For countryside like this is proof that somebody does care."

And THAT is what The Eden Project is all about. George's words ARE Eden!

It is not a 'greenhouse'....Eden is a way of life. It is about changing things for the better, proving you can make a difference, taking up the challenge, helping all the local people in a very poor community...and THAT is why, imo, it so fitting for Peter Gabriel, Angelique Kidjo, Maryam Mursal, Salif Keita, Thomas Mapfumo, Tinariwen, Daara J, Shikisha, Ayub Ogada, Modou Diouf and O Fogum to be in exactly that place, for Eden is a very special place and coupled with the artists appearing there, that concert will be the most special of them all....Eden is the concert I shall be looking out for most on Live 8 Day.

"Your God comes out to greet you....." No more so than at Eden on July 6th.


Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Sorcha
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 06:00 PM

Thank you Lizzie....this is just another atrocity....I shall click and send.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 07:16 PM

Thanks for the link, Lizzie. All I can do is send a picture, but I'll do that for sure. Funny, because it'll be a picture back to the land of my ancestors. No one deserves to die from malnutrition; no one deserves to die from poverty. Not with the vast riches of this world. I am happy you saw fit to post this thread.

Bruce Murdoch

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 07:25 PM

PS This may end up in BS, but I am sure it'll 'stay on Mudcat'.

BM

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Azizi
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 07:37 PM

Lizzie, thanks for starting this thread.

I'm not the 'blue' click angel, since for some reason my clickies are always red.

But, here are the hyperlinks to the websites you mentioned:

The Eden Project

Live 8 Concert

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Azizi
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 07:51 PM

Lizzie, here is the way that I make a hyperlink:

1. I copy the URL {website address}
2. I past the URL into an address field on the top of a page or
   search engine such as google and then pressed "Go"
3. When I get to that website, I right click on "Properties"
4. When a box appears, I click on "Okay"
5. With my mouse I then "highlight" the URL address for that website
6. I press "Cut"
7. I return to the comment box in the Mudcat thread and click on
   the "Make a blue clicky" feature on the bottom of this box
8. I paste the URL that I had highlighted into that box.
9. I follow the rest of the instructions in that box {decide
   what name, if any, I want to use for the hyperlink, type
   in that name, and then highlight the hyperlink that appears}
10.I copy this hyperlink into my comment

This usually works, but as I said it results in a red clicky.

Maybe your blue clicky angel will correct any errors I have made so that both of us will become members of the blue clicky crew.

Best wishes,

Azizi

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: michaelr
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 09:24 PM

Lizzie -- where did you see Christy sing that Jackson Browne song?

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 11:14 PM

Post quick Lizzie -- so we can start our lawyers on it Monday morning, crisp and bright (Browne people get no respect)

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 01:14 AM

Lets leave any form of anger or hatred out of this thread

. . . and leave you to enjoy your nice, white, worthy, middle-class, boring performers (like Coldplay for chrissake) sporting their trendy white armbands while the African musicians with their hastily-issued, afterthought sop invitations are belatedly and patronisingly shunted off to a greenhouse backwater, well out of sight and vision? Africa Calling actually happens on 2 July (not 6) and the line-up contains one of the finest musicians on the planet, Youssou N'Dour. Shows the extent to which it's penetrated your consciousness. Live 8 fails completely to respect the people of Africa, musicians and ordinary citizens alike. It's one day of token pity which impinges not at all upon the necessity for fundamental changes in economic, political and social attitudes towards people stereotyped as inferior because they have less money and different skins. A Live 8 discussion should be in the music section of the board, not BS, to promote serious reconsideration of the work of these musicians, not to pose for a day pretending to care about the plight of millions of people while watching mainstream rubbish on the television.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 01:22 AM

"and leave you to enjoy your nice, white, worthy, middle-class, boring performers"

The word is White.

I'm White. I ain't all that nice, I ain't all that worthy, I ain't middle-class, and not all the performers are boring.

That African performers were not given the respect or main-stage attention they deserve is bad. However, the cause is a good one, and I don't doubt that the screw-up will be rectified for the next concert. It may be one day of token pity, but if it raises millions, then so be it.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 01:42 AM

The stated motivation of Live 8 is NOT to raise money but to raise consciousness. It's hard to fathom which bit of that you don't understand but one thing is certain; it's failed before it starts.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 02:05 AM

The eventual goal is to change the thinking of G8 members who are meeting soon. That will--maybe--raise some cash and help people.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Kaleea
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 02:24 AM

I was in the Orient many years ago, and through friends, met a fellow who ran an "orphanage" for the orphans/street kids he found in the city of Taegu, S. Korea. Many of the children had living parents who could not care for them for whatever reason. Mr Yee, his wife and children lived in & slept on straw mats in the same large room, ate the same food, and considered the children as his own. He worked a full time job, and had few donations and managed to take in all the children he found or who came to him or were brought to him. It was such an amazing thing, that I decided to "adopt" one youngster--but from afar back in the states. Mr. Yee held the belief that the young people are valuable resources of the country, & that their country needed them to grow up & become respected members of society-that they deserved this. I sent Mr. Yee $10-15 a month (inflation over the years) until the young man had finished high school. After I became disabled & on a measly monthly amount, I was unable to send funds anymore.
   I realize that my situation was unusual, since I knew the people & saw the situation for myself. Perhaps there are some of you who travel and know of orphanages or agencies which are dedicated to the welfare of street kids &/or the many children in poverty of this world.
As I recall, Audrey Hepburn spent a great deal of time with "street children" and devoting much energy to this cause. Was UNICEF the agency? I would certainly suggest that one should thoroughly investigate the agency & how much of the $$ actually goes to the actual needs of the children. I knew that every won (penny) of the $ I sent to Mr. Yee went for the real needs of the boy-food, shelter, clothing. Somewhat an unusual situation, I'm sure.         
   Here's to people who care enough to try to make this world a better place.    Cheers!

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 07:36 AM

Azizi...thanks heaps! Listen...I've sat and read your instructions and tried to follow them as best as I can....so fingers crossed...here goes:

For Christy Moore


Michael the video is on the Radio 2 F&A homepage, just press 'video'. If the link above doesn't work, then their address is:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/r2music/folk/playback/

That should take you straight into the video page, but...with me doing it...that may not necessarily be the case of course! ;0)

Hope it works.

Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: s6k
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 07:44 AM

VIDEO PAGE

thanks for this! i will watch these eagerly later - christy, martin carthy, kate rusby!

PS - for the person that said they have red clickies instead of blue - they are still blue clickies, its just that you have already previously visited that link recently, and so links youve clicked on appear red.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 07:52 AM

Doh!! Sorry Azizi....let you down there. :0( ....I'm such a dingbat!

'Guest' above....the only reason that I didn't mention Youssou N'Dour is that you were talking about Eden and Youssou is, according to the details, appearing in Paris at the Palace de Versailles. Personally I'd have rather seen him in Eden as it means so much more in a spiritual sense than Versailles. And as to 'White' and 'Black'.....well there's only one 'colour' for people...'Human'...and the sooner we realise that, the better this world will be. So let's stop flinging words at each other. And yes you're right...the date I quoted was wrong for the concerts. It IS July 2nd.....July 6th is the date for Edinburgh. Apologies for that mistake. It was not intentional.


Kaleea...you sound a lovely person. What a wonderful thing to do. Good to read your story.

Brucie....thank you and it's great to think of your picture being among so many, many others. Well done you.

I'm off to study Azizi's instructions again and try to get it right this time!


Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 07:54 AM

Yay!...(((s6k)))
Lizzie x

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 07:59 AM

One last thing I forgot to mention, with regard to the Radio 2 link and Christy Moore...the first 9 minutes are the presentation of the Award to Christy...How Long starts right after that.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 08:02 AM

Africa Calling

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: s6k
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 10:39 AM

yossou n'dour is presenting the Eden concert.

but the official live 8 site says he is at paris too, so i dont really know whats going on there.

NEWS JUST IN - the sex pistols are reuniting for the London concert with the original lineup

CLICK HERE TO READ ABOUT IT

i disagree that it will be the highlight of the entire event, seeing as Pink Floyd will be there - but thats going to be interesting - considering Lydon once wore a "I hate pink floyd" shirt!

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Azizi
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 09:13 AM

Lizzie, it's probably my instructions and not you.

I notice my hyperlinks on this thread are showing up blue..I'm simply shocked since they usually show up red.

So this is a shout out to sk6, Guest, and others like Brucie who know how to make those blue hyperlinks.

Would you please read the instructions that I posted for hyperlinks for accuracy & clarity, and re-writing them as needed?

Thanks & Best wishes!

Azizi

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 09:34 AM

I see that life is going along as usual here. Only four posts posted until "GUEST" tries to switch the topic from the needs of children to the egos of adult males.
---------
A few months ago, my and the DH went to a performance by the African Children's Choir. The children were so delightful and the information given about their plight was so moving that we dipped into our pockets and put whatever we had in the basket.

I recommend going to hear them (and taking your kids and grandkids) if they come to your part of the world.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 10:30 AM

"GUEST" tries to switch the topic from the needs of children to the egos of adult males

The topic is Live 8, the purpose of which is to raise consciousness about and inspire respect for Africa and Africans. This is a music forum and thus a highly appropriate place to highlight the marginalisation of African musicians at an event which is supposed to draw attention to economic disparity. Unlike Live Aid 20 years ago, it is NOT a fundraising event and NOT about handing out short-term aid to children or anyone else. Emotive claptrap about "children's needs" is as patronising and imperialistic as the thankfully abandoned, post-colonial, church missionary approach of selling photographs of "cute piccaninnies" to "help" them. Do have a reality check; what the people of Africa need and deserve is the economic equality to engage with the rest of the world on an equal footing.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Peace
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 10:33 AM

And maybe the pressure put to the G8 members is a way to do just that, GUEST.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: s6k
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 10:40 AM

i will paste a simpler way to make the blue clicky.


go to the website you wish to include as a blue clicky.

in the address bar, click once and the entire address should highlight blue

right click it while it is highlighted blue, click copy

come to the mudcat window where you are typing your message. underneath the text, click "Make a Link (blue clicky)"

a new window will pop up. where it says LINK URL - right click in the text bit and click paste. it will paste the address you copied earlier.
now click in LINK TEXT and type in what you want - for example, if you type in VIDEO PAGE, then the words video page will appear in the message, but you will be able to click it and go to that link.

IGNORE the bottom 2 fields (mailto and link text) and click create link under where you just made it.
the page reloads and a mass of text appears. click and DRAG (hold down mouse and pull across the text) across the text underneath where it says "cut and paste this into post"
they will all start with a < and end with > so make sure you get these in.now right click it, as it will be highlighted blue. and right click... copy... then come back to your mudcat message and right click paste into this text box. then submit message as usual
done

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 11:23 AM

Good grief, what a palaver! All you need to is copy and paste the URL into your post and mark up the html, thus:

URL AGAIN

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 01:59 PM

Thanks Azizi and s6k. I'll try again in a minute!

Right then...yesterday something quite extraordinary happened. We went to Honiton in Devon, just down the road from where we live, in Sidmouth. Amongst other things we went into Oxfam to leave a few bits and pieces with them and I bought some more of the 'Make Poverty History' bands that they're selling and picked up a few of their new leaflets.

Then, I went into the health shop to buy a few things. It was an incredibly hot day yesterday and there was an elderly lady in there who was obviously 'feeling the heat' somewhat. I joked about the weather and she grinned and told me that her friend who was staying with her found the heatwave very cool! Then her friend came round the corner of the stand, a beautiful lady who apparently was from Tanzania. We laughed and that's when she noticed my Oxfam bracelet. Well....she took hold of my hand and squeezed it so tight, looked right at me....and then her eyes filled with tears!

Well....that was it! That sweet woman said more to me with her eyes than a thousand words could ever speak. We just stood there holding hands and then we wished each other well and said goodbye.

So...here for everyone to pass on is a new idea and a new website.

Oxfam is now doing its own 'Gift Catalogue' but this is unlike any other that you've seen before. These are the 'gifts' that you can buy, except you buy them for the people who really need them on behalf of your friends, (for birthdays), yourselves, the new bride and groom who already have everything, maybe instead of funeral flowers that just waste away:

Here is what your money can do:

.£6...School dinners for a child. Often their only meal.

.£6...2 textbooks for children

£10...Essentials for a child

£16...50 trees

£16...Fills a school satchel

£19...Health and hygiene kit

£24...A goat "You start with one and end up with a herd"

£24...Plants an allotment

£30...Building materials

£30...Textbooks for an entire class

£36...Training a teacher

£50...Starts a business for someone

£50...Services a truck

£64...Teach and support a farmer

£70...A cow for a family, the resulting calves go to the village

£95...A camel..."the most valued livestock in Somalia.."

£100..Basic medicines for an entire village

It goes on all the way up to thousands of pounds, buying an entire farmyard stock for villages, training and supporting carers, instilling water supplies etc. Everything is designed to educate people, make them self-sufficient, give them dignity and pride, all the things we take so much for granted.

Here's the site:

Oxfam Unwrapped.com

Fingers crossed that it works Azizi and s6k!!

So tonight we're all sitting round and deciding what we're going to get. My children are really excited about it and from now on I'm going to include this idea in people's presents too. Let's face it, how many toys..for big people or little people...do we actually need anymore? ENOUGH!

I'll let you know what we've decided upon shortly. Take a look at the site it's brilliant! If you had told me a few days back that I'd be on Mudcat urging people to go out and buy a cow....I'd have looked at you as if you were mad! But here I am!!

The words above all stem from that sweet lady from Tanzania who literally 'reached out and touched me' yesterday in a small Devon town.

I hope that through me she reaches out to you too.

Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 02:00 PM

Yes!!! I did it! Thanks Guys for all your help on that!

Lizzie x

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 04:09 PM

Lizzie Cornish....Why are the organisers of "Make poverty history" actively discouraging people from protesting at Gleneagles Hotel, where their protests should at least embarrass the the G8 leaders.

Instead we are invited to leave our brains at home and join the politicians at a "feel good " junket in Edinburgh.

Well I for one wont be listening to the ageing hypocrits singing of poverty and environmental disaster, while they gorge on cocaine and travel by private jet.

Like the anti Iraq war demo, this is an occasion when all we need to do is stand and be counted, and make the politicians understand that these issues can't be treated as a PR exercise, all bleeding hearts and rhetoric for a while, but then its back to business as usual.

It's the oldest trick in their book, rub the spiky corners off the protest, emmoliate the protesters with some meaningless figures, then when all the fuss has died down, let the African continue to die in peace.
I hope some of the party goers make the effort to get to Gleneagles and make a show of unity where it really counts...Ake

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Azizi
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 04:17 PM

Congratulations, Lizzie!

You're doing good {and I don't just mean joining the blue clicky crew}.

Yes, there are significant things that should have been done differently, but still IMHO this is a beginning step that will help some people who really need our help so that they can help themselves and their loved ones.


Peace,
Ms. Azizi

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Bloke in the Corner
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 07:07 PM

Of course help, of course end poverty.
It won't end while the EU subsidises their agricultural products to the extent that they are sent to Africa cheaper than they can be produced there.
But above all--- all the money in the world won't save a single life while it continues to pour into the pockets of the kleptocratic rulers of these countries and their foul minions, who watch their own people starve to death form their palaces, or start genocidal wars against their own countrymen because they come from another tribe.
Africa can save itself, we in the rich countries have succeeded in doing so little since live aid because so much of the money has been...stolen.
And Gordon Brown's writing off the billions of debt was really little more than a gesture. Almost all the poorest countries are already in default, being unable to pay because they are being robbed from within.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 04:20 PM

Rumours abound in todays UK press, that performers at Live 8 have been warned not to criticise Bush or Blair......"Surprise...Surprise".

Apparently the debt which is to be "written off" by the benificent West would never have been paid,as most of the economies are bankrupt.

The real crime being committed by the G8 leaders is failure to address climate change....They know what is required, they just dont care . Short term political survival is what's important to politicians, not protecting our environment or making this world a happier and healthier place to live..Ake

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: SharonA
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 07:54 PM

There's more political nonsense going on in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA (another site of the Live 8 simul-concert). Seems that some African-Americans there feel that it's not enough to raise awareness of Africa's dire situation; they want to use the concert as a means of making money for themselves (through selling food, such as soft pretzels, at vending stands) and are complaining because the city isn't making arrangements to suit them. Get this: they are saying that the fact that the city isn't allowing them to set up their food stands where they want IS EQUIVALENT TO the suffering of all the people in all the sub-Saharan African nations. Makes my blood boil!!! Here's a typical article about it (this one from Yahoo News):


Philadelphia Black Leaders Call on Geldof and Live 8 Talent for Support in Their Economic Struggle
Monday June 20, 2:09 pm ET


PHILADELPHIA, June 20 /PRNewswire/ -- A coalition of predominantly African-American business, civic and community leaders, working with Philadelphia's African-American Chamber of Commerce (AACC), today likened the economic exclusion of blacks in the City of Brotherly Love to the economic hardship suffered by sub-Saharan African nations and have called on the event organizer, Bob Geldof, and the entertainers scheduled to participate in Philadelphia's Live 8 Concert, to intervene on their behalf or to cancel Philadelphia as a concert venue.
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According to the members of the Philadelphia Coalition to Eliminate Economic Injustice from Live 8, the city of Philadelphia has made no public commitment to ensure that black vendors and businesses will fairly participate in the anticipated $40 million in expenditures that are expected to result from the concert.

In fact, the AACC sent a hand-delivered letter on June 14, to the City's Commerce Director, to Mayor John F. Street, to members of Philadelphia City Council and to Pennsylvania Governor Edward G. Rendell, requesting black vendor, business and workforce participation at Live 8 and at a center city vendor's mall, before, during and after Live 8. In response to that letter, the Commerce Director has replied that black vendors can begin doing business at the vendor's mall only "after July 4," and the city has made no public commitment that there will be appropriate levels of black business involvement in the concert planning and related business opportunities.

The Coalition points out that Philadelphia has a long history of excluding black businesses from full economic participation and that it is hypocritical of the city to participate in an event whose purpose is to bring economic equity to Africans while Philadelphia continues to actively discriminate against black businesses locally.

The Coalition further stresses that, while blacks constitute the city's largest population segment, at 43.2%, the city of Philadelphia has involved black businesses in just .7% (less than one percent) of annual government contract revenues. U.S. Census data also indicate that black businesses participate in just .9% (less than one percent) of the city's private sector gross receipts.

Commenting on the situation, A. Bruce Crawley, chairman of the African- American Chamber said: "Apparently, Mr. Geldof and his colleagues have some awareness of the economic challenges faced by blacks in Philadelphia. In fact, the Philadelphia Inquirer, in exploring the reasons why Philadelphia was selected as a concert venue over other U.S. cities, quoted event producer Tim Sexton as saying: 'You can't think about poverty without looking at the streets of Philadelphia, where that's an issue.'"

"With that understanding," added Crawley, "we call on Mr. Geldof, on Dikembe Mutombo, on Jay-Z, on Stevie Wonder, Bon Jovi, P. Diddy, Destiny's Child, the Dave Matthews Band and other talent related to the Philadelphia venue to speak to city government on our behalf and to demand that blacks right here in Philadelphia also benefit by the good work they intend to do for Africa.

"And, if for some reason, this city turns a deaf ear, on this critical issue, to the event organizers and to its entertainers in the same way that it has to the local black community, then we encourage the Live 8 concert planners to withdraw from the Philadelphia venue. The fact is that their participation will simply serve to perpetuate the economic exclusion that the Philadelphia black community has suffered under this and previous mayors."

"To come to Philadelphia and have an event to assist blacks in Africa, while ignoring and actively discriminating against blacks who are facing economic hardship right here is, at the very least, hypocritical," said Coalition member Debra Moore of It's a Family Affair, a local community-based organization.

The Coalition members say they will continue to work diligently to bring economic equity to their community, both for the Live 8 concert and beyond. They have committed themselves to have direct dialogue with the concert organizers and talent and to having continuous sporadic demonstrations throughout the city, leading up to the scheduled concert. They are also encouraging blacks and all Philadelphians who believe in fairness and equity, to contact the mayor and other elected officials to bring about fair levels of inclusion by blacks and other minorities in the city's business opportunities.

"In the same way that the Live 8 concerts have been designed to influence the G-8 nations, this ongoing local economic exclusion of blacks is an issue that must be addressed by government. It can no longer be swept under the rug, or hidden when polite company comes to visit," said Robert Gray, a Coalition member who heads the African-American Freedom and Reconstruction League.

"Black families and black neighborhoods in Philadelphia are suffering every day because of this issue. Now is the time to do something about it," said Stanley Crawford, a long-time vendor and Coalition member.

Founded as the African-American Chamber of Commerce of Philadelphia in 1994, the African-American Chamber of Commerce of Pennsylvania, New Jersey and Delaware is the leading private sector advocate for black-owned businesses and African-American economic development in the tri-state area. Headquartered at 1735 Market Street in Center City Philadelphia, the Chamber represents the interests of such businesses in both public and private sector forums. The organization also offers management and technical assistance programs to improve the effectiveness of black-owned businesses in the region. According to the Census Bureau, there are 16,010 African-American-owned businesses in southeast Pennsylvania, southern New Jersey and northern Delaware.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Burke
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 09:12 PM

So ignore Live 8 & get involved in your local Make Poverty History campaign to hold world leaders to their pledges to reach the Millennium Development Goals by 2015. Join with the rest of the world & wear your white band on July 1. Global Call to Action Against Poverty.

If you are in the US sign the
One pledge and send a message to President Bush endorsing the goals of more and better international assistance, debt cancellation and trade reform for the world's poorest countries.

Bob Geldorf did not start this campaign, he's just helping to publicize it.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 09:34 PM

Thanks, Lizzie Cornish. Getting politicians' eyes turned the right direction may make the world's inequities harder to ignore.

Someone once said: You can share without caring but you cannot care without sharing.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 05:35 AM

I repeat my question to Lizzie Cornish, and address it to Burke.
Why are the "Make poverty history" spokespeople discouraging protesters from going to Gleneagles?....Ake

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Stu
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 06:00 AM

I've posted this on another forum, but thought it was relevant here too in support of Lizzie's original post.

The idea of the concerts and march is not to raise money from the public to send to corrupt Africa governments, but to pressure the leaders of the world's richest industrialised nations, meeting near Edinburgh on July 8th, to write off the debt that cripples so many African countries. These events have already opened up this debate though - here we all are talking about it now. I agree it is flawed to some degree - not enough African music etc, but even that does not detract from the fact this is a publicity-generating exercise whose fundamental aim is to get this debate on the agenda of those who can influence events at the highest level.

Since the idea was proposed, 18 countries, mainly in sub-saharan Africa have been freed from this debt burden - that's 280 million people. This burden of debt was a useful tool for rich companies to gain commercial footholds in Africa through morally dubious relief schemes. Debt relief was (and still will be, if the G8 countries have their way) often tied to the privatisation of a countries nationalised healthcare and education systems. Instiutions run by African Governments for their people and in their interest was turned into a moneymaking machine that serves the interest of shareholders in rich G8 nations.

Many African governments are run on an undemocratic basis by corrupt individuals, but this is not unique to Africa. British firms now export arms worth nearly £1 billion to African countries, including £53 million to Nigeria, plus £30 million to Angola and the granting of a military export licences to Uganda, the latter two were singled out by Vic for criticism in his article. If they are so corrupt, why are our government so happy to sell them weapons? Doesn't that make us, a the very least, complicit in the misery heaped upon the innocent citizens of these nations by their leaders?

Live 8 represents the chance for ordinary people to influence decision-makers that act more often in the interests of unelected commercial organisations rather than their own citizens. This is democracy in it's purest form - the people seeking to impose their will on their leaders.

stigWeard

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 07:09 AM

Akenaton....please could you tell me where you got your information from, as I've just phoned Oxfam and told them what has been written here. They said that they are not discouraging people from going to Gleneagles at all. So...I'm a little mystified.

I don't want to go back to them again until I know your source. This will make it easier to sort out and hopefully I can come up with an answer for you. Meanwhile here is the part of their site that deals with the G8 Campaign.

http://www.oxfam.org.uk/what_you_can_do/campaign/mph/g8/index.htm

Thanks

Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 07:37 AM

OK....Bob Geldof was on BBC Radio 2 yesterday afternoon on The Steve Wright Show. You can 'listen again' to what he had to say by clicking on Wednesday's show here:

BBC Steve Wright

The show is 3 hours long, but don't panic! There is a fast forward button that comes up once you have pressed the 'listen again' title.

The show started at 2pm and Bob was on just before 4.30pm. So...click the '15 mins' button 9 times to take you to around 4.15pm,(at this point you should get Abba, almost finished singing 'The Day before you came') then click the '5 mins' just once which will take you to halfway through Rufus Wainwright singing 'Crumb by Crumb'...continue to listen to this and right after Rufus finishes...Bob comes on.

Obvioiusly this link will only work for the remainder of this week as Steve's shows start all over again next week.

Good luck. It's worth hearing...honestly!

Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 01:47 PM

Lizzie ...I've heard two spokespeople for "Make poverty history", when asked point blank if they would like to see protesters going to Gleneagles, reply that they were not encouraging this action.

One was on Channel 4 news , and as far as I remember the other was on Newsnight Scotland...

I'm sure your a good person and don't want to diminish what you are doing, but I think these issues, especially environmental degradation, needs more of a hard edged protest than a bunch of has-been pop singers entertaining politicians and the reality TV generation....Ake

PS just read Oxfam website.....not a word about protest at Gleneagles

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 03:47 PM

For 'has been' popstars they sure sell out alot of venues.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Burke
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 08:29 PM

I'm in the US & so have not paid any attention to what or what is not planned for Gleneagles.

My impression is that the UK organizers want to concentrate efforts on the July 2 rally in Edinburgh.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: *daylia*
Date: 24 Jun 05 - 08:10 AM

Hey, my home town of Barrie Ontario is so proud ... and shocked! ... to have been chosen for Canada's Live 8! We were chosen even over Toronto ... and now we'll be famous for more than our world-class pot plants!

Here's the lineup for the Barrie concert:

African Guitar Summit
Barenaked Ladies
Blue Rodeo
Bruce Cockburn
Bryan Adams
The Bachman Cummings Band
Deep Purple
DobaCaracol featuring Kna'an
Gordon Lightfoot
Great Big Sea
Jann Arden
Les Trois Accords
Motley Crue
Our Lady Peace
Sam Roberts
Simple Plan
Tegan & Sara
The Tragically Hip
Tom Cochrane


The African Guitar Summit? and Deep Purple?!? Wow, I'm almost tempted to go, but the 35,000 tickets they were giving away were gone in 21 minutes the other day. To me, that's scary! I do know what Molson Park is like in the sweltering heat, with 50,000+ half-baked partiers milling about. Been there, done that, got insulted, got assaulted, got away, bought the t-shirt, moved on ... but I'll be there in spirit. And make a donation, if there's someplace to do that.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 25 Jun 05 - 05:38 AM

Akenaton, thanks for your reply.

Well....I didn't phone Oxfam back. Not because I don't believe what they told me or what you say, because I do, but the long and the short of it is that it really doesn't matter who said what...where. Gleneagles or Edinburgh, it WILL get through to the G8 leaders because they will not be able to ignore it!

What really matters is how many seconds have passed since this thread began and how many children have died. Short and simple to me what Live 8 is about.....Changing things! Ordinary people changing things, putting pressure on our so called Leaders who should be hanging their heads in shame.

Wouldn't it have been a great idea if EVERY city across the Live 8 countries were filled with people, just marching in silent protest, not just Edinburgh?

I remember over here in England, when Mrs.Thatcher was in power, a lady in the West Country rang up BBC Radio Devon and complained about the Poll Tax, saying how wrong and unfair it was and that we should all protest about it. That story was taken up by every BBC radio station across the land and within days The Poll Tax Protests were taking part in almost every city. We went into Plymouth to join everyone and I'd never seen anything like it. Thousands of people, just marching in silent protest, no damage, no riots, although I think Rent-a-Mob was out in other places. It changed everything. The Poll Tax was done away with very hastily....and the Politicians realised that you can only push people so far, although just lately we all become so apathetic again that we need a huge kick up the backside!!

It needs all of us right across the rich nations to take Live 8 up and say we've had enough of all this madness! It's not right that we live in countries where food is piled up to the ceilings in supermarkets whilst others have nothing. We're destroying food because we have too much and others are dying because they have nothing. Imagine being a parent and just holding your child in your arms while it dies, for no other reason than it has no food. How must that feel??? We can only imagine.......we are very blessed over here.

I understand about the corrupt, evil Governments in some of these countries. It makes me as mad as it makes everyone else!! Just last night we saw on our news the graves of two children killed by Mugabe's men, when they decimated their homes. And yes, something HAS to be done about that too! My Dad fought in World War II, he was a kind, gentle, peaceful man, he spoke very little about his experiences, but I remember that he did say that sometimes things are just so evil that you have to stand up and do something. Something needs to be done about Mugabe and all the others like him.

Already, as someone mentioned above and Bob mentioned on BBC Radio 2, the Anti-Poverty Coalitions are growing ever bigger, 18 nations have had their debts wiped out, 280 million people freed of that, 9 more countries to follow...possibly more. Bob talked of how the papers are suddenly becoming filled with pages containing information on trade justice, tariffs, cashflow subsidies, debt relationships, aid-flow packages. This is despite them all saying it was madness to even think about it, five years ago.

He spoke about not wanting to be an old man and look back on his life and know that he could have changed things, he could have done this, but turned away. And he hasn't turned away...he knows how people criticise him, but he just keeps on keeping on, despite it all. I admire him hugely for that. As Bruce above said in another thread "You don't just talk the talk, you've got to walk the walk." Hope it's OK to quote you Bruce, but they were good words!

So...Akenaton...if nothing else, why not visit that Oxfam Gift page and take a look. We, as a family, decided on 50 trees, some clothes and shoes, a goat and a cow!! It's all ordered and done now. And no....we're not rolling in money, my husband has recently lost his job through redundancy....and no...I'm not putting it on here to make you think good of me...let's face it I should have been doing it years ago! Many people have been for years and years quietly, just getting on with it. But this is about changing how the rich world has been behaving for years. It's so easy to turn away and just carry on with your life….Live 8 are trying hard to make us think differently.

But just think if you decided to go for even the smallest item at £6 and told 10 friends, then those 10 friends told 10 more each, making 100, then those 100 told 10 each, turning it into a 1,000 people and then 10,000 and then 100,000 and then.......suddenly you have the Pyramid Effect and a Waterfall Of People all wanting to help. And that waterfall can turn into an entire Sea Of People, made up of the likes of you and me.

To quote Bob again from the radio interview above:

"It's about changing the dynamics between the rich and the poor world."

"It is maybe likely that with having all of us embarked on this adventure to change the world within the next two weeks that we might just get there."

"It's individual humans helping other people"

And THAT'S what July 2nd and July 6th is about to me. Not just about the politicians and wiping out the debts, but about all of us deciding to do things differently.

Daylia....your concert sounds great! Hope you enjoy it and that it achieves more than anyone ever thought.

And here's one more site to visit....well two actually. The first is Martyn Joseph, an incredible, committed, passionate man whose songs are making a difference everywhere he sings them. He's in Canada a huge amount of the time so check him out, because this man has the power to change how you view things in life.

http://www.piperecords.co.uk/martynj/community2.htm

The second is Harry Chapin's site. A man whose songs and attitudes I loved deeply when I was younger. Harry was incensed about world hunger and was determined to change all that in his lifetime. He started up the 'WHY' foundation 'World Hunger Year'..which is still going today, with Bruce Springsteen and others still taking up that challenge. Had Harry not died so tragically, so early in his life, who knows what he might have achieved. I've put the link through directly from Harry's site to the World Hunger Year site. Hope it works.

http://www.worldhungeryear.org/

And finally wouldn't it be great to hear Steve Earle singing 'The Revolution Starts Now' somewhere during the Live 8 concerts.

Apologies for the length of this post.

Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jun 05 - 07:21 AM

Mugabe is 'decimating homes', is he? Taht's a definite improvement if only 1 in 10 is being rased.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Piers
Date: 25 Jun 05 - 07:28 AM

Political leaders have been promising and failing to make poverty history for years. Why is this time going to be any different? Especially seeing as all that is being demanded are reforms to capitalism.

More and better aid might help some hungry people in the short term, but is unlikely to bring a decent standard of living. Dropping the debt will make things easier for the state in these African countries, but governments always act in the interest of the rich - be it by waging war or providing relief where the system fails to meet basic needs - not the majority of people. Making trade fair will provide a better deal for emerging African capitalists, so what? - it doesn't gaurantee better conditions for the emerging working classes in Africa. It takes no account of the fact that most people are poor because they don't own the means of producing life. Unless you challenge this fact, that is unless you challenge capitalism, you are hindering social progress toward a world where everyone stands in equal relation to the means of living and there is no poverty at all - let alone promising to halve poverty in twenty years time when most of the kids starving now will be having children of their own. Demanding concessions from the representatives of the rich through praying, pleading or direct action will get us nowhere. If we want a society for ourselves, we have to take power by ourselves.

The world for the workers!

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 25 Jun 05 - 05:27 PM

Piers....I agree with you. So go to the Oxfam Gift site here:

http://www.oxfamunwrapped.com/

Buy SOMETHING so that a farmer can become independant, buy 50 trees which will not only feed the family but which will provide fruit that they can sell on, start a business for someone, sponsor a teacher who can educate so very many children to want a better life and show them how to get it.....but Piers.....DO SOMETHING and make a difference to some people's lives. We can all do it if we want it badly enough!

So this time....MAKE IT WORK!

Help those people to work for themselves and make their lives better for their families.

Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Piers
Date: 26 Jun 05 - 05:52 AM

Lizzie, Charity will not change the fact that where profit comes first - be it 'independent', state or privately owned - people will come second. The things you suggest might help today, but tomorrow we will be faced with the same problem. The idea that one can somehow trade or work one's way out of poverty is a fallacy. Maybe somebody does work their way out poverty, but then the exploited becomes the exploiter and the majority of people are still in penury. Capitalism is like Death Monopoly.

I agree wholeheartedly that everybody should be doing something but following the myth that capitalism can somehow be made to work in the interests of everybody is merely prolonging the disease. Capitalism means minority control of resources, production for profit and allocation of goods and services according ability to pay. Unless we negate the system with one based on common ownership and democratic control of resources, production for use and free access to goods and services then be prepared to continue begging your 'benevolent' masters for a little grace forever, while poverty, war and environmental damage continue unabated.

There is no reason why we can't have a world of plenty for everyone, a world of co-operation amongst equals. But to do this we have to stop clinging to the decrepid ideas of leaders and followers, our nation and theirs, and then take power by ourselves for ourselves.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 05:09 AM

Well I don't know Piers....I'm confused.

Aren't you saying what I'm saying, but more eloquently? Aren't we all pretty much saying the same thing here? This isn't about charity it's about us all saying what you're saying, but saying it together.

The whole point of the Oxfam 'Gifts' is to enable people to stand on their own feet, and be in control of their lives, not just to dish out food and clothing as they've done in the past. All the aid agencies have learnt so much over the years, but unless everyone gets behind them how do they move forward?

The whole point of Live 8 is to get our so-called 'Leaders' to realise that they are there to do what WE want them to, but surely that will only work if the majority wants it to work. Bob Geldof and all the other hard working people involved, are working their socks off to try and get us to do just that.

Maybe, just for once...we all need to leave the usual cynicism behind and just go for it!!

Who knows what might yet happen if we do.......

Lizzie

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 07:16 AM

Didn't lots of us protest and march against the war in iraq? Hmm, where was the huge impact there...?

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Piers
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 08:25 AM

Hi Lizzie, I don't think we are quite saying the same thing.

Oxfam is saying that people can be in control of their lives and stand on their own two feet by becoming small business people or what have you. I think this is wrong. It fails to take into account that in capitalism wealth tends to migrate into the hands of a few as it is in the developed world - huge inequality. In the UK one of the most adavnced capitalist countries, almost two thirds of all wealth is owned by 5% of the population. This wealth is constituted of the means of producing things that we need to live: food, shelter, transport, computers etc.

You cannot be in control of your life if someone else is in control of the things you need to live. I'm not suggesting a return to small scale production or hunting/gathering, I'm suggesting using that the productive resources that exist should be controlled directly through democratic decision making. We have the productive facilities for there to be enough for everyone on the planet. Developing regions do not need to go through the slow development process they could have the resources now but the market, i.e. the capital owners need for profit, says they cannot.

This is the material base that the political system is built on. Politicians merely regulate the different sectors of capital. Unless we can get MPs that are mandated by those they represent then MPs will go on acting for those who fund their parties (the rich) and fund the state (the rich). Government can only exist for

Make Poverty History, Live 8 and Oxfam want Africa to become an developed capitalist society. This has the support of rich popstars and capitalist politicians because it leaves their privilege unscathed. This is the society we are in now, we don't have the extent of abject poverty that Africa has, but they are talking halving (absolute) poverty in tens of years when it could happen in a year or two with an immediate increase in agricultural production and healthcare (it can't happen, it is not profitable - millions are condemned to death by capitalism), but we have immense relative poverty, war, environmental destruction, waste, unfulfilling jobs that produce nothing to do with real human needs but are simply about making money (for the rich). In abolishing capitalism and having a society based on common ownership of resources, democratic control of those resources and as a result free access to the goods and services produced, poverty will be abolished for good.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 08:15 AM

Well put Piers.

I thought I'd refresh this thread as we're just starting to watch the Live 8 coverage which has just begun on the BBC. U2 are on at present.

Let's hope it makes a difference and that all goes well around the world.

Bono is just saying that the rock-stars and the hip-hop stars can't make much of a difference, but their audiences can as it's us that vote in the politicians and us that CAN change things He said he's not asking us to put our hands in our pockets but he IS asking us to put our hands in the air and be counted.

Right..I'm off to watch for a while.

Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Tam the man
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 08:24 AM

There is an English butcher in Edinburgh and he is all worried because he will lose £400 today because the marchers in Edinburgh,

Well to him and his fellow capitalist sod you all. Human lives are more important than money.

Tom

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 08:30 AM

Live streaming of Africa Calling (as opposed to the 'orgy of the bland') here.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 09:50 AM

Is it just me, or have Coldplay earned the title of 'most boring band in the world'?

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 03:32 PM

'Scaramouche'...you watched the wrong concert!! Get yourself to the link about in Countess Richard's post and watch some highlights of the right one! Diane....thanks for the 'Africa Calling' Eden link. I watched that last night, tuned in just as Tinariwen were playing. It was fantastic! By the time Daara J had finished I was so angry about the lack of TV coverage they'd been given from Eden. That concert should have been filmed and shown in its' own right. Those musicians were just incredible!

We tried to get tickets, but to no avail.

This morning they were showing highlights on the internet, so I got to watch even more acts that I'd missed last night. There are 7, out of 21 who took part, that BBC Cornwall is showing over the next few days. I was so impressed by Geoffrey Oryema. What an incredible voice he has and he's a superb guitar player. Hearing him sing his song 'Bombs keep falling' just bowled you over! Also Thomas Mapfumo talking about Zimbabwe and how we have to get rid of all the Dictators in this world. What an impact he would have had in Hyde Park. The BBC should be ashamed of the miniscule amount of coverage they gave Eden on mainstream television. And to hear and see Shikisha playing inside the Domes of Eden was spectacular! While I'm sitting here typing this I'm listening to Modou Diouf and his family...ALL drummers and the sound is just...well....you HAVE to listen to them...in fact you HAVE to listen to EVERYTHING on here!

Eden was Live 8 to me. Hyde Park was egos.

Wouldn't it be great if 'Africa Calling' now became a major programme to be screened to coincide with July 6th.

Don't give me Elton John EVER again...OR Velvet Revolver!!!.....Just give me Geoffrey Oryema singing these words of his, which he sings with such conviction:

"Bombs are falling, our nations are burning

Bombs are falling and leaves are drying

Bombs are falling, what a careless world

Our mothers are crying, where are all the children?

The wind keeps blowing, expensive bombs keep falling

The wind keeps blowing, it will blow your worlds away

Give me your number I will call you tomorrow

I don't want your number, we have to talk face to face

Bombs keep falling, people keep dying

Fields are burning, mothers keep crying

Bombs keep falling, mothers keep crying

Fields are burning, mountains are falling"

And the way he sang that would have had more impact than almost all those Hyde Park egos rolled into one! Go and listen to him...second song in his act...and that is followed by Peter Gabriel and Johnny Kalsi joining him for a song about exiles. "In this land of another...." Very, very moving.

And finally....Radio 3 are playing two hours of highlights from Eden's Africa Calling, tomorrow, Monday 4th July 7.30 to 9.30pm on their 'Performance on 3' programme.....here's the link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/performanceon3/pip/v2br5/index

Hope you enjoy it all.

Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 03:41 PM

Sorry...seem to have 'Blue Clickyed' over-zealously there.   Don't know what I did wrong!

I also forgot to say that the most moving moment, for me, in the Hyde Park concert was when Bob Geldof showed us the film of Live Aid 20 years ago, with all the children starving in their mothers' arms. Then the film closed with one child seemingly drawing her last breath and just about to close her eyes. It was incredibly upsetting, everyone became silent, Bob included.

Then he told us about that little girl. Twenty years ago she was given just a couple of hours to live, but miraculously she survived. She has just finished her University education and he brought her on stage. She was the most staggeringly beautiful, dignified young woman and it literally made you choke back the tears.

Let's hope those 8 men were watching last night and saw how many people want this crazy world changed. They are only there to serve us and it's about time they woke up to that fact as well as us.

Lizzie

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 03:47 PM

We saw that footage over here, Lizzie. It was stunning, the tears did not cease to fall for quite awhile. Thanks for all of your postings and links. You others as well. THIS gives one hope for this sorry auld world...so MANY people gathering together for such wonderful reasons and making their voices heard. If we keep that momentum and cohesiveness going they cannot ignore us!!

May Peace Prevail,

kat

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: GUEST,Canadian
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 03:48 PM

"They are only there to serve us and it's about time they woke up to that fact as well as us."

Respectfully, those eight men connected with international money are there to serve their masters, and we ain't the masters. People do NOT matter to them. Never have and never will. They worship power and dollars.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: GUEST,Canadian
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 03:49 PM

PS Bless all of the folks who tried.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 04:52 PM

Which has more power.....a million dollars or a million angry people?

Napoleon, when talking about China, was supposed to have said:

"There lies a sleeping giant....let her sleep, for when she wakes, she will shake the world".

Well, that 'sleeping giant' could also be apathy. It has kept us all silent for decades. But there comes a time when all 'giants' wake up and I think that we've reached that moment.

If those 8 men choose to look the other way and continue to run this world purely for power and greed then watch this world begin to 'shake'

Lizzie

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 05:09 PM

Capitalism can mean all kinds of things - a group of people lending money to someone who wants to set up a workshop to make something useful, that's one kind. A bunch of rich crooks organising to exploit and steal the resources of a community on the other side of the world, that's capitalism too.

The point of this whole operation was to send a message to the people who run the planet that they need to watch their backs, because while they are cosying up to their bosses in the corporations, there is a groundswell of ordinary people who are wanting something different, and the clock is ticking.   And that message is mostly aimed at Bush - and the people who pull his strings on behalf of the people who his proprietors.

I taped most of the London show, because I had other stuff to do, and I knew that there'd be a whole lot of it I'd sooner let the tape machine listen to than listen to it myself. I've found myself fast forwarding over much of the music; the best bits tended to come in between the music, from what I've seen so far. The Eden Concert looks pretty good though - and the little snatches I've seen from Canada and Jo'burg.

Philly - well, mostly not my kind of music from the bits I've seen. Why should it be? Yes I know if, we on the Mudcat were choosing the muusic it'd be a far better concert to listen to (though we'd fight like hell about what to inclkude) - but people out there wouldn't be listening to it. Strange but true.

Anyway, if someone comes up with a link to Neil Young closing the Canada concert, it'd be good to to see that. Great to hear that he's back making music again.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 06:56 PM

What a sad reflection on the impotence of our great "democratic" society.

As my favourite pundit ...Simon Jenkins, said to day " A song in their hearts, and not much at all in their heads".

It turned out much as I expected, the message lost among the hype, the egos and the polite applause of the politicians.

The most tragi-comical part of the pantomime,was when St Bob gave the clenched fist salute to an audiance who must have thought it meant "something completely different".

As I watched him stand to attention, I remembered the newspaper pictures with his tousled head on Blairs shoulder and I started to throw up.

Geldof will rise in my opinion if he joins us at Gleneagles and gets the shit kicked out of him by the "polis", but I wont hold my breath....Ake

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jul 05 - 10:50 AM

"...St Bob gave the clenched fist salute to an audiance who must have thought it meant "something completely different".

I rather doubt that. The clenched fist is still pretty widely recognised and used as a symbol of solidarity and defiance.

No it's not going to change the world the way it needs to be changed, but it might make it a little easier to get it moving that way, and a bit harder for the people in powewr as they try to stop that happening. And there now lot of people who know a lot more about the issues, and a care a lot more then there were before and than there would have been without it. That's worth while.

All right, there are a lot of people with dodgy motives climbing on the bandwagon. But people with dodgy motives only try to climb on a bandwagon when it looks as it might actually be going to get somewhere. Or going to roll over them.
..............

That clip of Neil Young in the Canadian Concert - it's on one of the AOL sites about Live 8 - here. Only thing is, Firefox doesn't seem to be able to play the clips, so I had to use Internet Explorer for once. And for some reason Neil in that list on the page I linked to, along with a lot of other people (such as Great Big Sea - that Canada concert looks to have been a bit different), including those from the concerts in Japan and Jo'burg.

But you can get them via the search engine on the page.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: dianavan
Date: 05 Jul 05 - 09:41 PM

Those 8 men are listening but they cannot commit to a dollar amount for future aid. They may not be around then.

Seems to me that Geldof should have asked for immediate action. Asking someone to commit to something in the future is a bit 'starry eyed.'

BTW - Hats off to Ireland for already contributing the largest percentage of per capita income.

Did you know the Pink Floyd's CD is off the charts? Thats what I call a benefit! How much will they be contributing?

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 05 Jul 05 - 11:20 PM

Pink Floyd have already said they will be donating their extra royalties and are urging others to do so:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/4651309.stm

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 01:36 AM

Miss your shot this morning?

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Piers
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 04:08 AM

I had enjoyable day in Edinburgh on Saturday. It was great that so many people (~225,000) turned up. However, the goals of MAKE POVERTY HISTORY are about a useful in making poverty history as beating up policemen or trying to close down the G8.   If they do not understand that poverty flows from the wages system, that production is restricted to where it is likely to produce a profit for the few who own and control the means of production, how can they make poverty history?

Between 1990 and 2003 Sub-Saharan Africa's national debt repayments have fallen by 30%, to 2.2% of the GDP according to the World Bank. In real terms aid to Sub-Saharan Africa has increased. This is what MAKE POVERTY HISTORY want. But life expectancy in the region declined from 50 to 46. The number of malnourished people has increased between 1991 and 2002 by 24%. In a world of potential plenty all Make Poverty History can do is ask for EXTREME poverty to be halved in TEN years.

More than twenty years after Live Aid there are even more hungry people in Sub-Saharan Africa. It is highly likely that in twenty years time Bob Geldof, or someone like him, will be organising another concert for the hungry. Just as 'Make Poverty History' replaced 'Feed the World' they will have to come up with another slogan.

We have to stop believing that leaders and governments will ever act benevolently towards towards working people, they never have. We have to stop supporting capitalism to make poverty history.

Piers

PS Eliza Carthy was there and I offered her one my leaflets. She refused. Piers was very dissappointed.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Peace
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 04:18 AM

Well said, Piers. Bravo to you and the folks who turned out. You tried.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 04:32 AM

Eliza Carthy was there and I offered her one my leaflets. She refused.

No doubt she was being offered leaflets left right and centre and you can't take 'em all. Doesn't mean she wouldn't be interested in what you have to say and possibly debating it another time. She's more than capable with her keenly reasoned views on many a subject . . .

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 04:58 AM

lol to keenly reasoned views.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 06:21 PM

Well....it's 11.10pm here in the UK and I've literally just finished watching the incredible Annie Lennox deliver her speech about Making Poverty History, to tens of thousands of people in Murrayfield Stadium and that fine lady spoke every word with such heartfelt passion that it made me get up and come here to write this.

Her words 'Piers' and her views are what this whole campaign is about. (Well done for being there, by the way!)

At times she could barely hold back her emotions but the crowd went absolutely wild at the end of her speech. She outshone everyone else that I've seen so far in the whole of this spectacular week. You felt that she meant every single word, espcially when she finished with her words for the politicians which were that if they still choose to ignore how the world is feeling about all this, then they do so at their own peril.

Good for you Annie!....You tell them!! Thank you for putting into words what so many of us are feeling!

If ANYONE has a link to the concert and Annie's speech I'd be very grateful, as I'm sure that others would like to hear what she had to say and how she said it.

Lizzie

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Piers
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 03:49 AM

I've no doubt that Annie Lennox and most of the people involved in MAKE POVERTY HISTORY and LIVE8 genuinely do care about extreme poverty. However, the strategies they support have failed in the past and unfortunately they are unlikely to work in the future and everyone will forget about it for another twenty years. That's what I was in Edinburgh to say, and I did my part of distributing 10,000 leaflets, 1,000 magazines and lots of little cards putting the case for really trying to make poverty history.

More than 100 years ago Oscar Wilde wrote: "Their remedies do not cure the disease; they merely prolong it. Indeed their remedies are part of the disease. They try to solve problems of poverty for instance, by keeping the poor alive; or, in the case of a very advanced school, by amusing the poor. But this is not a solution: it is an aggravation of the difficulty. The proper aim is to try to reconstruct society on such a basis that poverty will be impossible."

Leo Tolstoy wrote the perfect analogy: "I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back." As long as the productive resources which we all depend upon are owned and controlled by a minority of society then there will be poverty. The need to dump the bosses off our backs is greater than ever.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: s6k
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 07:12 AM

miss dynamites speech was also brilliant, and bob geldofs where he brought out that girl and said tell me we are not helping.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 07:06 PM

Surprise surprise....The much vaunted G8 produced next to nothing.

Most of the aid turns out to be "old money" spun as "new money", nothing on trade reform, lack of urgency in tackling AIDS/HIV, and most importantly no progress on climate change....the Americans are calling for a "long term solution".

The aid agencies are unanimous in stating their disappointment in the strongest terms.
"We expected a roar from our leaders ,and got nothing but a whisper"

One positive aspect to come from the summit is that Blair seems to have grown tired of his role as Bush's poodle and decided to acquire one of his own   "Greyfriars Bobby " Geldof.

Its all been so predictable, and I feel sorry for good people like Lizzie, who's infectious energy and enthusiasm have been so cynically betrayed.
Piers is right, to defeat poverty we must first defeat the systems which produce inequality hatred and injustice....Ake

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: s6k
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 08:43 PM

errr.... i thought nothing had been decided over in scotland yet? blair came back to london after the bombings.... so what are you on about?

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Piers
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 02:50 AM

In their final communique, the G8 agreed to:
- Double development aid to $48bn (�28bn) by 2010. [Piers notes: This will still not come near the 0.7% of GDP demanded by Make Poverty History if my calcs are correct]
- Write off debt initially for 18 African countries. [Piers notes: MPH asked for full debt cancellation for poor countries of which there are more than a hundred]
- Provide "as close as possible" universal access to treatment for HIV/Aids; tackle malaria, TB and polio; education; and train a further 20,000 peacekeeping troops.
- Open dialogue between the G8 and emerging countries on climate change, with the first meeting in London in November, but no targets for cutting carbon emissions.
- Provide $3bn a year for the next three years for the Palestinian Authority to help build up institutions.
- Establish a "credible end date" for a trade agreement to eliminate export subsidies. [Piers notes: MPH asked for a new trade rules, the end to damaging subsidies and laws to stop big business profiting at the expense of people and the environment]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g8/story/0,13365,1524773,00.html

"The section on climate change in the Gleneagles communique published yesterday is not fundamentally different from that contained in G8 communiques since 1990, with lots of expressions of concern, but stopping short of proposed action: no targets and no timetable."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g8/story/0,13365,1524737,00.html

The white bloc got a more promises than concessions, the black bloc got a crack on the head and a prison bed, and everybody just ignored the reds. What's the point, eh? I'm just going to look after me from now on.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: Peace
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 02:53 AM

No, Piers, you won't just look after you from now on. That is not the kind of person you are. But I sure know the feelin'.

Subject: RE: Every 3 seconds...a child dies...Live 8
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 03:56 AM

Every 1.18 seconds a child is BORN

Don't worry your child will find a spouse to marry

And the Good Lord willin you should have great-great-gran-chillin by the millin!!!

Obla Dee, Obla Dah, life goes ON!!!!Hahhhh

Yes,

Sincerely,

Life Goes On