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Welcome to Mudcat

Bert 22 Feb 99 - 02:20 PM
katlaughing 22 Feb 99 - 07:43 PM
Joe Offer 22 Feb 99 - 08:51 PM
katlaughing 22 Feb 99 - 09:28 PM
Craig 22 Feb 99 - 09:46 PM
Charlie Baum 23 Feb 99 - 12:30 AM
Night Owl 23 Feb 99 - 01:04 AM
Joe Offer 23 Feb 99 - 02:30 AM
Steve Parkes 23 Feb 99 - 03:37 AM
Joe Offer 23 Feb 99 - 03:49 AM
Philippa 23 Feb 99 - 07:38 AM
puzzled 23 Feb 99 - 11:05 AM
Joe Offer 23 Feb 99 - 12:26 PM
Bill D 23 Feb 99 - 03:35 PM
Mippy 23 Feb 99 - 04:28 PM
Joe Offer 23 Feb 99 - 04:39 PM
Ian Kirk (inactive) 24 Feb 99 - 01:20 PM
Steve Parkes 25 Feb 99 - 03:16 AM
catspaw49 25 Feb 99 - 12:12 PM
25 Feb 99 - 03:23 PM
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Subject: Welcome to Mudcat
From: Bert
Date: 22 Feb 99 - 02:20 PM

Hi, Welcome to Mudcat!

If you are looking for the lyrics or the tune to a song, you have come to the right place.

If you include the name of the song in the thread title you will get results much quicker. The reason for this is that some people don't have the time to look at all the threads, so they just look at those that catch their attention. And if the see the song in the thread title and know the words they will jump right in.

If you don't know the name, at least include the part that you do know.

Bert.


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Subject: RE: Welcome to Mudcat-PLEASE READ THIS
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Feb 99 - 07:43 PM

Just wanted this to go back to the top for newcomers to see and, I copied Joe's words, to reiterate:

Subject: RE: Need lyrics: From: Joe Offer Date: 22-Feb-99 - 01:15 PM

Today there are about 4 threads with titles like "lyrics requested", but with no hint of which song the person is seeking until we actually open the thread. time-consuming...please try to give threads more specific names.

Do not post any more messages in this thread. First, search for your song in our database and forum. If you can't find your song, start a new thread with a specific title, and we'll do our best to find the song for you.


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Subject: RE: Welcome to Mudcat
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Feb 99 - 08:51 PM

Yeah, but Kat, we're trying to work up a standard reply that is pleasant and understandable and concise. What would be ideal is if we could come up with a very brief caveat to be added to the "create new thread" page. maybe something like this:

Create a New Thread

Welcome to the Mudcat Cafe!
If you're looking for a folk or blues song, you've come to the right place. Please help us find your song by following these steps:
  1. Search our Digital Tradition Folk Song Database: Click here
  2. Search our Discussion Forum: Click here
  3. If a search doesn't work, start a new thread, using the box below to enter a thread title that identifies your song. Click the grey button to create the new thread, and then give us an introductory message that tells us what you already know about the song. (hint: Be sure to give your thread a good title. Generic thread titles like "lyrics requested" or "desperately seeking lyrics" won't help us find your song)
 

 Name of thread:  



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Subject: RE: Welcome to Mudcat
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Feb 99 - 09:28 PM

That would be grrrreat, Joe! I like that a lot! And, that would be the right spot to put it, too. Thanks,

kat


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Subject: RE: Welcome to Mudcat
From: Craig
Date: 22 Feb 99 - 09:46 PM

katlaughing-could you turn it down, you're hurting my ears.*grin*

Craig


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Subject: RE: Welcome to Mudcat
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 12:30 AM

Joe-- It's a nice message. Perhaps to give people an idea of what to to name their thread, you might suggest, "Use the song title, if you know it, or the first line, or any other line; the more obvious the better." Some instruction that helps those without a song title come up with a thread title.

Also, how many characters can you use in a thread title before it truncates the title? (How much abbr needed 2 make it fit?)


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Subject: RE: Welcome to Mudcat
From: Night Owl
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 01:04 AM

Thanks for the thought Joe & Bert...I'm new to Mudcats and am delighted to find that I know a few answers (well, maybe one)to questions in the forum, but don't have time to read everything listed. I think your draft instructions would be VERY helpful to us newcomers and the tone is encouraging... what does "Truncate" mean?


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Subject: RE: Welcome to Mudcat
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 02:30 AM

"Truncate" Means to cut something off before it is finis
I'm still not completely happy with the wording of the "create thread" page I put in above here. I followed Charlie's advice and changed it a bit, but I'm still not happy with it. It has to be clear, friendly, and concise. I'm open to suggestions. Then, maybe if we get something hashed out that's really great, we can talk Max into making it into the "create thread" page. Any more ideas?
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Welcome to Mudcat
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 03:37 AM

Not guilty your honour!

I posted a thread which started "Lyrics wanted:" and included the title and writer/performer's name, but it got chopped off at two words. I thought about starting a new thread to try and get the full text in the title, but I thought that would be a bit of a waste of resources, so I left it.

Steve


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Subject: RE: Welcome to Mudcat
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 03:49 AM

Hi, Steve - I had suspected that the newly-overhauled 'Cat was eating thread titles that contain colons. You've confirmed my suspicions. I guess the six people who started "Lyrics Request" threads today weren't all bad. When I saw your name as the person who started that thread, I figured the mistake might be a technical problem, not yours.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Welcome to Mudcat
From: Philippa
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 07:38 AM

I also apologise to the people I scolded for truncated thread names, now that I realise that the fault was not theirs. I guess none of the six people were bad, not all bad anyhow.
If instructions are to be added, I think they should appear after one clicks on 'create a new thread' rather than on the main forum page. I can see both sides of that issue, but there's a lot on the main page already, and also I hope newcomers browse existing messages before they get ideas about making their own. The instructions should be fairly concise, but it might be worth including specific wording for 'Lyr request' 'Lyr added', whatever; if most of us use the same wordings, I expect it will ease the work of the DT compilers
See the 5th and 16 Feb (Doppelganger/Philippa/Pete M) entries at a threadiquette thread for discussion of another suggestion re wording of message
Also - if Mudcat Help is working - clickable links to information about HTML and ABC/Midi could be added to the heading at that site.


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Subject: RE: Welcome to Mudcat
From: puzzled
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 11:05 AM

one of the threads i tried starting was truncated the other deleted the thread title and subject completely leaving a blank.
I think you all are definitely on to someting about having this info on the create new thread page. I wonder if a standard system request could be suggested. i.e. calling a lyrics request thread
?lyrics? to (song title, composer, artist or phrase here)
or something like that?

this might get around the truncated colon problem (did i just open myself up for one of Art's jokes *pun intended*)

even though I am a newbie to mudcat, i can see that the web growing pains are going to hassle youall. I esp. like having the discussion forum info and the DT search info so readily available. Finding that info has helped me feel more comfortable in using mudcat.
a big thanks again for this most wonderful service!!!


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Subject: RE: Welcome to Mudcat
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 12:26 PM

Well, Sherlock Offer solved the Case of the Truncated Thread Title - quotation marks in thread titles make everything after the quotes invisible. Since people are very likely to put quotes in titles, this is a real problem. I hope Max & Mike can make the 'Cat a little less fussy about the characters we post.
Until the problem gets fixed, I'll try to transfer things over to threads with proper names, so we don't have such a problem. In the meantime, don't use quotation marks in thread titles.
I have some questions about using introductory abbreviations in thread titles like LYR ADD: TUNE ADD: LYR REQ: CHORD REQ: and the like. I know a lot of people like the idea, but I think it's nice if we usually keep to just one thread per song, one song per thread - and discuss anything and everything about that song in that thread. It seems to me that just the song title is a pretty good title for a thread. It sure makes things easier to find, and keeping things all in one thread usually seems to make for a more interesting discussion. If I had my druthers, I'd use my magic edit button to consolidate multiple threads to keep all information about a song together. Haven't found my druthers yet, though - maybe they'll turn up somewhere. It seems that there are many people who prefer separate threads for adding tunes and lyrics, and some will even start a new thread to respond to a request. Since this opinion seems to be pretty strong, I don't think it would be right for me to take it upon myself to consolidate what somebody else has created separate. Still and all, I think I'm right, and all those people who want multiple threads for one song are wrong, wrong, wrong (in my not-so-humble opinion).
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: not-so-humble opinions
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 03:35 PM

*grin*..seems like humbleopinions are rare items in here!!

seriously..I have lobbying for over 2 years for a "how to" page for Mudact...and Joe has made a right fine start! It needs the 'welcome' and a general model of how this whole maze is laid out, some brief guidance about titling threads, the explanation of how to do both database and forum searches..(along with why forum searches are so important), some HTML basics..(with links to full guides), a link to the history of Mudcat,...and maybe some more...

scattered about the forum history are many already existing well-written treatises on various tricks and guidance...perhaps the best of these could be collected and re-posted as part of the "how to" page...it seems to me that most of what we need has been written - we just need it collected in a place that does not disappear when a thread gets old...(like the page on links to other sites)...come to think of it, we could even put links back to THIS site there, but that would get pretty circular, and I am pretty dizzy already!

Anyway...I'll be gald to see all this persued.. and will help anyway I can..


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Subject: RE: Welcome to Mudcat
From: Mippy
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 04:28 PM

Hey Joe! I don't know anything about the history of this page. Are you Mr. Mudcat?


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Subject: RE: Welcome to Mudcat
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 04:39 PM

Well, Mippy, Max Spiegel (click here) is Mr. Mudcat, but I guess some might say I'm the most prolific poster.
Max is a blues fan, and started the 'Cat as a blues page in late 1996. About that time, Xerox had dropped its sponsorship of a Web site for the Digital Tradition Folk Song Database, a 10-yr-old collection of 7,000 songs which is shepherded by Dick Greenhaus and a mysterious person known only as Susan of DT (she'll get me for that). Max graciously gave the Digital Tradition a Home on the Web, and gave us this wonderful forum. Aren't they nice?
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Welcome to Mudcat
From: Ian Kirk (inactive)
Date: 24 Feb 99 - 01:20 PM

Slang in the UK for a person who is altitudinally challenged is - short arse.

Hmm - truncated colon I suppose is another way of saying the same thing

Ian


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Subject: RE: Welcome to Mudcat
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 25 Feb 99 - 03:16 AM

Nice picture of Max; they say you know when you're getting old when the DataBase Administrators start looking younger!

Steve


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Subject: RE: Welcome to Mudcat
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Feb 99 - 12:12 PM

Before this thread runs too far afield, may I throw my 2 cents in and say, "Go For It" re: Joe's sample message (third post this thread)? Okay...GO FOR IT !!!!!!

catspaw


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Subject: RE: Welcome to Mudcat
From:
Date: 25 Feb 99 - 03:23 PM

Hey, Craig, sorry it took me so long to respond. I tried posting this the other night, but gave up because everything was taking soooo lllooonnnggg and I was sleepy. Anyway, here's what the original was supposed to say:

"I'se jist playin' wid the HTML what I jist learnt! And, making sure Joe heard what I had to say! Hey, I was the youngest of five, so I learned to "speak up"! ***grin back atcha***

Kat


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