Intellectual property

Subject: RE: Intellectual property
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 14 Sep 98 - 12:19 PM

Bert, I like your policy, but why make it "official" at the Cat? Some people may have different preferences. To simplify things, I just made my own modest lyrics public domain (at least some of them).

Subject: RE: Intellectual property
From: Ewan McV
Date: 14 Sep 98 - 03:31 AM

Re collection agencies for song performance. The British agency is PRS. The committee is all song publishers and big name writers. It is surprising to report that their distribution policy documents give exhaustive detail on why their payout policies mirror closely the interests of publishers and big name writers. Oh, all right, it's not really surprising at all. They give out a little token money to good causes too, of course, and employ PR people to keep up appearances and defend their approach and values. I get a bob from them now and then, but they signally fail to collect on most of my potential earnings, even by their own rules. I've challenged them in the past - they even appointed a minder to keep me sweet - but life is too short to put all one's energy into trying to beat City Hall. In theory they are on our side if we are songwriters, but in practice only if we have significant recordings etc. Ewan McV

Subject: RE: Intellectual property
From: Barry Finn
Date: 13 Sep 98 - 11:17 PM

What I'd been told was bars that had sessions were being targeted if any tunes were copyrighted or if a pool hall played music over the radio then the pool hall had to shell out money, knee jerk reaction, no more music heard in any place of business, no matter the medium, no matter the busines, no matter if it's public domain. No more music played by live groups, no money or work for recording copyrighting singers/songwriters/musicains, sad state of affairs. Barry

Subject: RE: Intellectual property
From: Roger Himler
Date: 13 Sep 98 - 08:46 PM

Barry,

I do not know about Ireland, but part of the work of BMI and ASCAP is to go around to businesses that play music and make sure that they contribute to the royalties for them. They can be a very intimidating group and are quick to threaten legal action.

This is precisely the approach they took with OLGA, the on-line guitar archive that once offered lyrics and chords to hundreds of songs.

They have done the same to small venues who are not making money off the music.

The following story may be apochryphal, but I suspect it is not. A local park sponsored concerts on summer evenings. They paid the performers, but did not charge admission. Twenty or thirty people would show up. ASCAP came by and saw the large field where these concerts occurred. They said it could easily hold 400 people and they wanted the park to pay royalties to ASCAP based on that number, not on the 20 or so who really came. They threatened legal action if the park did not comply.

The result? No more concerts in that local park. So, Barry, be aware that the rights of songwriters are being defended, and perhaps much too vigorously.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: Intellectual property
From: BSeed
Date: 13 Sep 98 - 07:56 PM

Gargoyle, did the posting you responded to get dropped from the thread or something? I don't see the antecedent. --seed

Subject: RE: Intellectual property
From: gargoyle
Date: 12 Sep 98 - 09:48 PM

BS

Stop hoping - Go out and sing the song yourself....on street corners if need be. Or, continue writing AND continue singing. You act like that song is some sort of "lottery-ticke" which is going to get lucky some day.

Subject: RE: Intellectual property
From: Earl
Date: 11 Sep 98 - 05:17 PM

I think Bert has come up with four simple, humble, common sense rules. It's all the protection I'll ever need, sign me up.

Subject: RE: Intellectual property
From: Barry Finn
Date: 10 Sep 98 - 11:19 PM

Recently I had heard that in Ireland there are a bunch (excise men? - plenty of room here for new songs) going round to bars, barber shops pubs, any place of business & charging the owner of the establishment royalties for music played on the radio, jukebox or by session musicians that happen to be playing a tune/song that someone holds a copyright on. Say it ain't so, tell me my legs being pulled. Barry

Subject: RE: Intellectual property
From: Chet W.
Date: 10 Sep 98 - 08:38 PM

As a teacher I know what it feel like to be vilified because of my profession and the responsibility I'm supposed to accept for other peoples' mistakes and the general less than perfect state of the world. If you really want to kill all the lawyers (I'm sure it was a joke), then if you ever get in trouble maybe your mechanic or dentist can get you out of it.

Thin-skinned today for some reason, Chet W.

Subject: RE: Intellectual property
From: BSeed
Date: 10 Sep 98 - 08:02 PM

That's very close to the policy I stated regarding a request to use a song I posted on the thread Movement songs except I said any performance was okay--based on the idea that performances would serve to introduce the song and make it more likely that it earn publication and/or recording royalties.

--seed

Subject: RE: Intellectual property
From: Dave T
Date: 10 Sep 98 - 07:19 PM

Bert,
I like your thinking. Sounds like something we might come up with the day after we get rid of (non-violently of course) all the lawyers. I'd apologize to any "Lawcatters" out there, but it might be construed as an admission of guilt or intent to do something to feel guilty about or ...
Dave

Subject: Intellectual property
From: Bert.
Date: 10 Sep 98 - 09:27 AM

This is a branch from the "foreman's job" thread.

There have been several discussions on copyright legalities but I think it would be an idea for us Mudcateers to develop our own rules.

Sort of - "We know what the laws are but here is how we want to do it".

Here are my thoughts.

1. I would consider it an honor if you sing one of my songs for any non profit reason.
2. I won't get too upset if you sing one at a bar and get paid a buck or two as long as you are not getting rich at it.
3.Give me credit when introducing the song.
4. If you make a recording (cassette or CD) I won't charge you for the first 500. More than that would be standard royalties.

How about making this, or something like it, the Mudcat code of honor?

Bert.