BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: mandotim
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 03:50 AM

I wasn't going to get involved, but I feel I should. There is a long term historical perspective to this. The history of powerful civilisations shows us that as wealth and prosperity grows, there is an increasing reluctance on the part of the indigenous population to carry out the less edifying tasks that keep the society functioning. The consequence is that such societies tend to seek labour from outside their borders; examples include the Roman Empire (read Gibbon's 'Decline and Fall...'), slavery in the United States, the economic boom in the 1950s in Britain which stimulated Caribbean and Asian immigration, the current migration of Filipino labour to the West and the Middle East, the UK recruiting nurses from overseas; the list is long. There is a parallel process whereby those who live in less prosperous areas see the opportunity to improve their lot, and move by whichever means they have to hand (boat people, Cuban refugees, asylum seekers et al.)The whole system can be seen as humanity trying to reach some kind of equilibrium, where there is enough food and other resources to go round. I suppose what I am trying to say is that there is a historical inevitability to all of this; the principle of entropy ensures that civilisations, like all systems, decay over time, despite efforts to shore them up. Rather than trying to preserve some kind of racially and culturally static situation, the real trick is to try to assess what the next point of equilibrium will be , and move swiftly towards it, using the tools of statehood as necessary. A good primer for this thinking is Francis Fukuyama's book 'The End of History and the Last Man'; before the racists jump in, he's a third generation American. To give my own background, I live near Stoke, and I'm originally from Saddleworth. I'm deeply saddened by what has happened to my home town, especially the lack of tolerance. A musical link; go to www.webfolk.net , and have a look at Geoff's song 'Reclaim the Flag'. As an example of misunderstanding; he was accused of being racist when someone heard this for the first time.
Regards to all
Mandotim (Tim from Bit on the Side)

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 08:24 PM

Tripe? I'd sooner eat the stomach of a cow.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Mr Happy
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 07:13 PM

loada tripe!!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Chris Green
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 06:40 PM

Still, you have to laugh, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 03:56 PM

But the holes are rather small...

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 03:48 PM

Not the Albert Hall. It has holes already.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 03:40 PM

Oh, hell...as much as it takes to stop braindead nazi pricks getting elected. A pint of liquid shit, a yard of liquid shit....a veritable river of liquid shit. Enough liquid shit to fill the Albert Hall...

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 03:37 PM

Only a pint?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 03:30 PM

Um...hey! Could you please send some of these immigrants up to Scotland, if you don't want them? We've got a falling population problem, and we're not to bothered about our English heritage being destroyed...:0)

I'd rather drink a pint of liquid shit than vote BNP (braindead nazi pricks?) but maybe that's just me...

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 12:46 PM

"Does the BNP really propose sending everyone back to their places of origin?"

Spend the first nine months trying to get out of it and the rest of yer life tryin' to get back in.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Mr Happy
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 11:52 AM

Does the BNP really propose sending everyone back to their places of origin?

How many generations back do they intend to start from?

Is everyone presently residing in Britain was sent back,the country would be empty & there'd be piles of space for immigrants!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 07:08 PM

I'm not a kangaroo, but I enjoy the occasional jump......

I feel (as ever) i can add nothing constructive to this debate, however I will trade insults with anybody for your right to say it.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 06:23 PM

Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Josh
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 06:21 PM

Brucie boy! That's gotta be the longest headache ever!!!!

OK I'll start a new post in the morning.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 06:10 PM

200 josh go play with the traffic.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 06:06 PM

I am getting a headache, Josh. You won't like me when I have a headache.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Chris Green
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 05:40 PM

This is not a cheap shot, Josh, or an attempt to get a rise. But if you genuinely repudiate all the stuff above, why refresh it by adding to a thread that's been dormant for two months? Particularly since your post of 09:41 doesn't really have anything to do with anything that has come previously. Wouldn't it perhaps be better to start a new thread on this topic? If you do I'll gladly join in a debate on the pros and cons of the coming election with you!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Josh
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 02:43 PM

Ok guest... I'm going to rise to ur insult for the first time in this forum and on this thread and say to u, fuck off, show ur ill ridden face and log in as ur true self u dumbshit and then talk contstructively rather than taking a rather cheap shot at me. Arsehole.

Richard, I don't know who to vote for anymore....

Com... just step back from my previous postings, I'm looking at the present and future now for my siblings and future children's sake.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Com Seangan
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 01:46 PM

I dunno. Josh's post is so bereft of reason that it hardly merits getting all hot and bothered about.

But don't abuse the eejit. If he wants to make a point, let him make it. I am interested in what he says: ""THEY should adapt to ours if they want the priveledge of living in the UK. I would do exactly that if I was in their country. And now they're building a Bank of Islam in the UK...""

So, Josh, if you went to an Islamic country you'd have the British missus Or girl friend) wear the hejab and cover her pretty face ? Fair play. Not many Brits do that. But it is a matter of choice.

"And now they are building a Bank of Islam"... oh dear! But what on earth is wrong with that??. The Bank of Scotland is in Ireland for years - and nobody has made a fuss. And I don't think the Scots have any ambitions of taking over the country. But - still - you'd never know what they have under their kilt.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 01:41 PM

Well ,,,,

There will soon be an election and the two main parties are quite beyond the pale. I would have great emotional pain to vote for New Labour, simply to keep the Conservatives out. But I am in difficulty finding an acceptable alternative.

Incidentally, it would be interesting if we did have some hard statistics on immigrants, and types of immigrants - and indeed sections of the population. Are those with identifiable characteristics disproportionately represented in particular sectors?

What do we actually know? It is easy to assume that you have seen what you think you have seen, but in Gravesend, my home town (I live a bit outside actually), we have seen the newapaper reports of the deadly knife fights on the trains - apparently between Kosovan gangs. A friend of mine's daughter has twice been threatened with assault. Both times by persons whose English indicated they were not native English speakers. So I am told. Conversely the only person recently to have threatened me with a knife was plainly a native English speaker, and he did so because I was (rashly) objecting in a pub to a BNP diatribe. Do we actually know whether immigrants, or any particular identifiable group, are more likely to use edged weapons?

What about the drugs trade? In Gravesend there was a well known local family that was an important factor in the local drugs trade. Their name might have made it sound as if they were from one particular ethnic group, but in fact they were from another.

Whatever happened to Eysenck's research on IQ related to nature/nurture? Was it rigorous? I always assumed it was self-selective, but if it really did stand up, should something similar be repeated, or do we have to take it on faith that all men are equal, and if we do, does that apply to women too? Is it sexist, for example, to say that men are by nature more attracated to visual pornography, or to violence, than women are?

Indeed, if we go to "class" as well, why should not those who advocate social mobility not adopt the civilities of the classes into which they seek to be mobile?

I think I'll stop now and toss this over for discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 10:17 AM

Josh-Fuck off.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: greg stephens
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 10:15 AM

Still as interested in folk music as ever, eh, Josh?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Josh
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 09:41 AM

Ooooh election time's coming along soon guys (UK) Who ya going to vote for? I'm voting Labour, purely cos they're ok, not brilliant, and even though they're screwing over Students with top up fees, the policy makes sense....

But then so did going to war with Iraq at the time...

Josh (yes I'm back and I've re-encarnated the thread)

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 05:08 AM

You don't have to be a racist to vote BNP. There are plenty of racists who don't. Being misguided is enough.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 05:00 AM

Anway, just out of interest, the nationality of the highest number of illegal immigrants currently in the UK is Australian!

I bet the BNP won't mention that in their leaflets!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 04:49 AM

The idiots at the BNP recently booked a black DJ for a disco at their annual conference, they reckon he sounded white over the phone!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 06:31 PM

Timbo,

Shit happens. Your years in the military taught you that.

The thing about getting your knickers cut off--I'm still working on UK English, so I hope knickers is/are an appropriate paraphrase for that disgusting reference to the testes-hangers-orbs word that was used above in such an uncultured manner . . . well, someone said it's not a death sentence. Fu#kin' well would be to me! Anyway, hie yer arse back and get in the game.

m

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 01:45 PM

LOL, Sir John!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Chris Green
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 11:25 AM

Re Thatcher - "She sorted out the country, but she left it in a mess"!? (Oxy) MORON!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 01:11 AM

Them bloody darkies!, they come over here, get all the best new houses built for them, goverment give them free cars, and they've ALL got moblie phones!
its a bloddy disgrace, rate payers, national service, wasn't like this in my day, national service, that'll teach em, bring back hanging, never like this in my day, leave your door unlocked all day, no respect, clip 'round the ear, Enoch Powell, two bob for a haircut, national service, bloddy darkies.
There, now I've covered all the points you had to raise [josh & Timbo], now kindly fuck off.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 08:01 PM

WLD, you're obviously starstruck on Heseltine and Portillo, so no point expecting you to appreciate John Major's qualities. But for me he is the guy who, together with Albert Reynolds, showed enough courage and vision to start the process that brought peace of sorts to Northern Ireland. Something Wilson, Heath, Callaghan and Thatcher had all attempted without success. (Let me repeat, for the benefit of anyone who doesn't know, I am a socialist, not a Tory.)

Josh, I've never doubted your existence, nor confused you with Timbo, nor thought you were merely peddling BNP propaganda. (For a start, I don't think any true BNP apologist would have lost heart in the cause so quickly.) Admittedly I did have the advantage of having seen your earlier post in another thread (the one where you signed in as "Aston University" I think). But don't be surprised that the slightest evidence of support for the BNP should provoke an extreme reaction. You noted at the outset its thuggish element, and if you got closer to them you would see that this thuggish element prevails in everything they're about. They prey on people's fears, and exploit ignorance. A thoroughly bad crew. (Anyone who classes them alongside communists, SWP, etc as Cllr and brucie have done above is giving them a respectability they don't deserve.)

And frankly Timbo, if Leadfingers does indeed tolerate your stupidity enough to count you as a friend, then you have just lowered him in my esteem. You know precisely what the BNP is all about. To know that, and yet still to give them your vote is crass beyond words. I notice you have made only the most pathetic of attempts to explain why you chose to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Cllr
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 07:03 PM

I know who you are timbo and you are not josh. I just didn't want to draw attention to it. The comments from josh are regurgitated BNP propaganda.
WLD- John Major was an excellent politician and a nice bloke to boot I was lucky enough to meet him sevral times and a university friend of mine wrked with him for six months. His intefrity is peerless ( intended joke for those who get it) he managed to operate a government that had a negative majority. Kinnock for all his faults was a great orater and produced some of the great speeches of the twentieth Century (from an accepted academic view point) He also started off the modernisation of the labour party to enable it to become New labour. Of course any one of the hard left woould say this was a crime of an unforgivable nature, Any one who despises our current system won't have a good word to say about any of the politicians from any of the major parties, and the word democracy gets banded about without consideration for the meaning of the word. Its a bit like good taste and bad taste = bad taste is what I don't like and good taste is what I do like. Some people seem to think this applies to democracy as well. I can understand why people vote BNP but it is racist and I abhore the methods they use. in this thread some people are confusing nationalism with racism they are two different ideologies but rascism has been around a lot longer. generalising on the web and in this sort of thread rarely allows anything but the briefest of opinions unless you are blessed with a clarity of style way beyond my humble abilities or my level of patience. Night all Cllr

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 06:01 PM

John Major - the glory years!

You're quite right of course - he had none of the advantages life can bestow upon a politician. He had no original ideas, no charisma and he sounded like a speak you weight machine. That somebody who resembled a presentable human being like Michael Hesseltine or Ken Clarke wasn't leading the party at this point is entirely the fault of the twats in hats at the party conference. certainly made John Smith and Blair 's job a damn sight easier.

Major did have the advantage of fighting an election against the one bloke in England who had even less skill in constructing a coherent sentence - Neil K.

Every time you heard questions in parliament and Kinnock went for that 3rd alliteration , your heart sank...."Does the Prime Minister agree that his policies are sanctimonious, sociopathic and sun dried tomatoes....." You could almost hear the nation go as one , "What a flipping idiot!"

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Josh
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 05:15 PM

Read my earlier posts and u may heed that remark you just made. I would never vote for the BNP again however I thought it would provide some positive discussion. However many just seem to be close minded.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 04:48 PM

Well Timbo, FWIW, I could be wrong but I still believe you are sincere and that you are not Josh - a poster who to be honest, I am very suspicious of.

I'm sorry to hear you feel that way but at least from my side there is nothing even close to a "death sentance" being considered.

That however does not alter my view that to even give an organsiation like the BNP one second's support for what ever reason is at best misguided.

Good luck,

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Timbo
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 04:33 PM

brucie

I was introduced by friends from the folk scene. They said it was good fun in the chat rooms. Seems they were wrong, I feel as if I have been sentenced to death by voting once for the BNP for very good reasons. Funny old world isn't it.

I must say that some people on mudcat can't read, refuse to listen or possibly don't understand English. (Not a crime really) However when I am being accused of being Josh and being a racist and that I should have my balls cut off, I wonder if I should bother to try to put any form of debate forward. I have plenty of other things that will keep me busy in my life that will not insult me and my intelligence.

So its fare thee well I am afraid. Hope you find your God and that you achieve everything that you want in life.

For those of you that know him, I am a friend of Leadfingers. Ask him if I am Josh.

Wishing you well,

Timbo

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 01:38 PM

Josh,

Obviously I was tryin' to tell you something. I have no idea what, because you ARE logged on with a real name and stuff like that. It's the meds, son, it's the meds.

Welcome to the 'cat.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 09:56 AM

weelittledrummer, I am not a conservative (as if that needed spelling out) so it's not really my business, but I've never understood the contempt John Major atracted.

To me, a socialist, he was an ordinary decent bloke, born into circumstances that gave him no advantage whatsoever, who made it to the top on the strength of his own ability and who tried to do his best for his country by his own lights. That's quite a lot more than could be said for the present leader of the Labour Party, which is why I refused to campaign for Labour in the 97 election.

Moreover Major was not a loser in any meaningful sense. Thanks to our crazy voting system, it was his lot to govern with a tiny-to-nonexistant majority, despite the Tories getting more votes in 92 than those that got Labour its landslide in 97. And Major could hardly be blamed for 97 - by then Labour was wearing Tory clothes, promising to stay wtihin Tory spending limits (which the then Tory chancellor Ken Clarke has admitted even the Tories would not have done).

Getting back to the subject: anyone who, like Timbo, might be thinking of voting BNP as "a warning shot" should remember that Hitler was elected, and no doubt many of the votes he got were intended as "warning shots." When he was asked to form a government it was because he was the only party leader in a position to do so. It was only after becoming chancellor that he changed the rules.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Josh
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 08:27 AM

She sorted the country out though didn't she? But admittedly, she left it in a mess. Politics is swings and roundabouts. Your never going to find a party u totally agree with. Diplomatics and politics are all about compromises and meeting the needs of the many. Ofcourse you're not going to like everything. It's impossible. Every person has different needs.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 07:03 AM

no I don't.

I think conservatism is good idea. but I think a load of right wing idiots hi-jacked the party, they're there at every party conference looking and sounding stupid.

John MacGregor was the best education secretary since the war, but he soon discovered Keith Joseph's plans for a national curriculum were crazy - so they sacked him and put a yes man in the job.

Hesseltine took a principled stand over Westland, and because he opposed Thatch the looneys chose a loser like Major .

Portillo is the only one who could lead the party to victory and they won't choose him , because he was frank aboout a youthful sexual indiscretion.

And yes I think the NF were feeling pretty shot up the arse, when Thatch came up with that line about polluting our national blood (or whatever it was) in 79. You can't deny she nicked their best line.

I bet Josh would have voted for her. He who sups with the devil....etc

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Josh
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 06:31 AM

My datd? If u meant date I'm still not sure what u mean... sorry old boy!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 08:05 PM

Let's use a racing analogy. At first, Josh tested the waters. It was a pit stop of sorts. He has returned to the race, and despite the time lost he will continue.

Josh, ya have to enter your datd when you frist log on to the 'cat.

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 07:56 PM

Hey, I like Josh. He didn't once lose his cool which is a helluva lot more than I can say for myself. He will come along.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Cllr
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 07:36 PM

Im a conservative I voted thatcher I don't vote or believe in the values of BNP, Wee little drummer I accuse you of THREAD DRIFT. You want a debate over it lets do it over A pint. If you want to imply that the conservative party are the same as the BNP then you are as big a bigot as the national front, SWP and the rest of that ilk. Cllr

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 07:18 PM

There goes the neighbourhood....

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Josh
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 06:53 PM

Done. My email is [e-mail].

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 06:10 PM

Josh,

Get a membership. Love to see you and Timbo in the same room together.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: greg stephens
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 05:51 PM

Well Josh I am continuing with my work which involves making beautiful music with asylum seekers. Who bring something very lovely to this fine country of ours, unlike the pondlife party you vote for.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Josh
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 05:47 PM

Just to let u know, I have got a job and money to work for which is why I have been away. Also, I cannot access this website oddly enough and also my wireless connection sometimes plays up. Plus I thought my thread had died, but obviously not.

Peace out lads.

Take care.

Josh

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: M'Grath of Altcar
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 03:46 PM

It's a troll conspi-race-y.