 sj |
||
|
||
Show of Hands - Bellowhead
|
|
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Gervase Date: 19 May 09 - 03:36 PM booootiful The catchphrase of the man who invented the turkey twizzler. Says it all, really. |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: VirginiaTam Date: 19 May 09 - 03:29 PM What I want to know is where people get the time and energy to carry on these wars, after a full day of work. Decided I had better listen to both SoH and Bellowhead. Several videos of each later I concluded that if I had to chose between SoH and Bellowhead live performance it would be Bellowhead. Bellowhead seems fresh and fun and SoH a bit samey and stagnant. As I am whacky over very trad rendering of trad songs, I would probably not by CD of either group. |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: The Borchester Echo Date: 19 May 09 - 03:20 PM booootiful Odd turn of phrase for someone so abysmally ignorant about East Anglia's tradarts. Now infamous for not having heard of Walter Pardon and caring less, madlizziecornish also once speculated that Sam Larner's rendition of Lofty Tall Ship was taken from a SoH composition. This is someone with the temerity to insult and bully industry activists until they withdraw their input from these forums in despair. And wifty-wafty airheads without the braincells to assimilate the tragedy of their enforced absence continue to wail that "it's not her fault". Yes, it bloody is. Joe Offer says "it's only one person". Personally, I remain unsure that it's a "person', rather an entire bank of spam generating machines. What concerns me is the result, the loss of the input of valuable activists who are just too sickened by the glutinous hassle. They, and the music, do not deserve this. |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Folknacious Date: 19 May 09 - 03:06 PM Yup. He's right. Don't feed the troll is the usual advice. Must learn to follow it! |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Joe Offer Date: 19 May 09 - 03:01 PM Oh, shit. I see this has turned into another one of "those" threads. I get all sorts of dramatic complaints about so-and-so being an attention-seeker and how so-and-so is singlehandedly ruining folk music in all of England, destroying EFDSS, and burning down the Cecil Sharp House. I know I've done English folk music a horrible disservice by failing to silence said attention-seeker. But I'm not likely to change my mind. Max says you can try to convince him, if you like. I follow precedent; and I see no precedent for silencing somebody, simply for being obnoxious. Max sets the precedent, so maybe you should try to change his mind. But did it ever occur to you that perhaps the best way to deal with an attention-seeker, is not to give any attention to the person seeking it? I will admit that Everybody's Favorite Attention-Seeker does go overboard quite regularly, but there's really no serious problem until the usual people get all hysterical about the Attention-Seeker's comments. It's the hysteria that amplifies those comments into something damaging. It's not one crazy individual that gives people such a negative impression of the English folk community - it's the lynch-mob mentality that so often prevails among a number of UK folkies. In other words, why get in a tizzy over Lizzy? She's just one person. -Joe- |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 19 May 09 - 02:15 PM "...Yes there are still some with a comprehension level lower than that of an educationally-challenged mud beetle whinging that "it's not all her fault". Yes it is...." Ain't she boooootiful! :0) |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Bonzo3legs Date: 19 May 09 - 01:26 PM At least the speaker has resigned, now for brown! |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: GUEST,Silas Date: 19 May 09 - 01:08 PM Well, Diane, I never ever thought I would say this, but I agree with you entirely. Very well put. |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: The Borchester Echo Date: 19 May 09 - 01:03 PM "madlizziecornish" is not Cornish. It's neither her name nor nationality. She comes from Pinner, Middlesex (allegedly). She knows nothing whatsoever about English music yet takes some sort of pride (of the scattergun variety, thanks Frau Krump) in snatching piecemeal this and that from anywhere (doesn't matter, sans fences is the mantra), and ramming it down people's throats even when (a) they've been aware of for decades, thank you, or (b) they didn't much want to know in the first place. She's got delusions of spreading out music like some sort of fairy godmother, like her fantasy related above of being wholly responsible for sales of a CD which was practically sold out by the time she's heard of it and the band want her only to bloody well shut up. She embarrasses the hell out of scores of performers who dread "endorsement" by her as a kiss of death and has bores thousands across cyberspace on scribbling boards which have tried, with varying success, to slam down drawbridges when she drifts into tirades of highly dangerous social policy bollocks. There are a number of complex issues associated with this thread to do with the ethics of using Downfall in order to make yet another satirical point and it has thus generated a number of additional contributions way above her head. What she has done is use it for two of her perennial themes, a vendetta against the Artistic Director of a world-renowned festival and to heap even more syrup on her fave "boysies". Gervase, among many, is bloody sick of it. It's attention-seeking bilge serving no purpose than what she erroneously imagines in personal aggrandisement. Yes there are still some with a comprehension level lower than that of an educationally-challenged mud beetle whinging that "it's not all her fault". Yes it is. Today, this forum has probably lost for good the wise and knowledgable contributions of Joan Crump / Ruth Archer. Presumably are are still some out there who will be proud of this too. Shame on you. |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Rifleman (inactive) Date: 19 May 09 - 12:30 PM Nice cheap shot, GUEST, delivered from the safety of anonymity, how brave of you! |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Banjiman Date: 19 May 09 - 12:21 PM Gervase: very dignified. Thank you |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Spleen Cringe Date: 19 May 09 - 12:19 PM But Wackboodsman (as you are from here on to be known, Copyright Will Fly), Jeri dragged herself in! I suspect she loves it... Anyway, any fule no that most English folk (in both senses) are totally bonkers and justly proud of it... |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Gervase Date: 19 May 09 - 12:16 PM Sorry, it was intemperate. But sometimes there is just so much a chap can stand before letting rip, and I didn't think it fair to kick the entirely blameless terrier currently snoozing under my desk. I'm afraid, though, that the thoughtless gushing shown by one poster does get to me - particularly when, on another thread, they seem never to heave herd of Walter Pardon, and go on to 'blame' the EFDSS for not giving a gold badge to her heroes. Honestly, there are times when I am embarrassed to have been born English... |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Backwoodsman Date: 19 May 09 - 11:55 AM Oh puh-leeee-e-e-e-e-eese, don't drag the poor Americans into this, guys. For once they're the innocent parties! :-) |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Spleen Cringe Date: 19 May 09 - 11:41 AM What Banjiman said! |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Rifleman (inactive) Date: 19 May 09 - 11:22 AM From: Gervase - PM Date: 19 May 09 - 10:11 AM It;'s probably entertaining to you, Ms Cornish, because you are an inveterate attention-seeker whose vanity is in inverse proportion to your intelligence. How I wish you'd had your musical epiphany while listening to Mantovani or James Last instead of English music, then we'd be spared this incessant and irritating blather. For fuck's sake, woman, give it a rest - Show of Hands, Seth Lakeman and Kate Rusby need your sort of flamming like they need another orifice. As it is this thread is now 140 odd posts long, which is remarkable considering it was simply started to draw attention to yet another subtitled romp through the last reels of Downfall. As far as I can see no-one has said any particular musician or band is 'crap', and the only person belittling and denigrating anything is you - and your target seems to be yourself! It's little wonder that the American users of this site regard the English as mad. Did you mention insulting? You're every bit as bad as Lizzie Cornish, I think you both need to give it a rest! Jesus, nothing changes round here, filming, editing and running around tearing my hair, hoping we've got it right, this time, seems positively normal by comparison to this. |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Backwoodsman Date: 19 May 09 - 11:09 AM "This is in marked contrast to another forum that I frequent, the Mandolin Cafe, where this type of rude behaviour is not tolerated at all." Agreed Zen. Similarly the Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum. Very civilised - we disagree, sometimes strongly, but we do it in a civilised, adult manner. But then the majority of contributors to the UMGF are American - very few are Brits. |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Banjiman Date: 19 May 09 - 11:02 AM "It's little wonder that the American users of this site regard the English as mad." "Gervase, want to know why I this makes the English appear mad: Prior to this message: Lizzie Cornish 26 Other people: 116 ...and you seem to truly believe it's all LC's doing--that's what's nuts. " Erm, please don't tar all of us with the same brush...... or we might start having to believe that all Americans are Right wing, gun toting, reactionary Red Necks. Which we know is no more true than that all the English posters are mad! Your name calling of all "The English" should be no more acceptable than the mad rantings of CERTAIN English contributors. Thank You. |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Zen Date: 19 May 09 - 10:53 AM Whatever one may think about SoH, Bellowhead, the video clip in question or certain people who have posted to this thread, some of the name-calling and nastiness is totally inappropriate on a forum like this and I am surprised it has been tolerated by the moderators. Unfortunately, it seems to be on the general increase which is one reason why I am spending less and less time here. This is in marked contrast to another forum that I frequent, the Mandolin Cafe, where this type of rude behaviour is not tolerated at all. Zen |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Jeri Date: 19 May 09 - 10:37 AM Gervase, want to know why I this makes the English appear mad: Prior to this message: Lizzie Cornish 26 Other people: 116 ...and you seem to truly believe it's all LC's doing--that's what's nuts. |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: TheSnail Date: 19 May 09 - 10:22 AM I think the Roots video is even funnier. I especially like the moment about 25s in where Phil's ample form is caught in profile gazing whistfully out to sea. In the face of Steve's overacting he always looks as if he is sending the whole thing up. |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Gervase Date: 19 May 09 - 10:11 AM It;'s probably entertaining to you, Ms Cornish, because you are an inveterate attention-seeker whose vanity is in inverse proportion to your intelligence. How I wish you'd had your musical epiphany while listening to Mantovani or James Last instead of English music, then we'd be spared this incessant and irritating blather. For fuck's sake, woman, give it a rest - Show of Hands, Seth Lakeman and Kate Rusby need your sort of flamming like they need another orifice. As it is this thread is now 140 odd posts long, which is remarkable considering it was simply started to draw attention to yet another subtitled romp through the last reels of Downfall. As far as I can see no-one has said any particular musician or band is 'crap', and the only person belittling and denigrating anything is you - and your target seems to be yourself! It's little wonder that the American users of this site regard the English as mad. |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 19 May 09 - 09:53 AM This thread is getting even more entertaining than the video.... I love it! :0) |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: theleveller Date: 19 May 09 - 09:51 AM "F*** peace, love and understanding. I'm off to Sidmouth with the death squad . . . " LOL!!!!!!!!!! |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 19 May 09 - 09:50 AM Best to wait until August.... :0) Now, now folknacious, just because you've realised you can't pin the Joanie rumour on me, 'tis no good you gettin' all a bit upside down about it... ;0) |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: glueman Date: 19 May 09 - 09:47 AM I still say SoH is a Punt and Dennis sketch. |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Folknacious Date: 19 May 09 - 09:42 AM Aaaaaaaaaarrrggghhhhhhhh! Where's my AK47 . . . F*** peace, love and understanding. I'm off to Sidmouth with the death squad . . . |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Smedley Date: 19 May 09 - 09:40 AM the Adolf roll -------------------------------- I wonder what flavour filling this has in it. |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 19 May 09 - 09:37 AM "Scene: outside the Bedford in Sidmouth, madlizziecornish: Through one window are musicians, through the other, PJD. And so on . . ." Nice try, Diane, but...if people can be bothered to check the Live From Sidmouth thread on the BBC board, about page 50 or so....they'll find that I made that wonderful gaff in error, then spent ages apologising to PJD for it...It was hilarious, as Ralph Jordan himself agreed...and....it was where Ralph and I became kinda 'friends' before all the nastiness took off..I then went on to praise PJD on many threads about them, all of which I started...and gave great support to their music. Get the facts straight, kid...otherwise people may be misled and I know you'd never want to do that to me. Joan....could you put these 'personal attacks' I've made about you, on here please...I is a little puzzled. If you check back, you'll see that the only personal attacks have come from you. Ian Anderson is free to make as many sniggery posts about me on his board as he so chooses...I won't fall over sideways in shock, neither will Ian if the same applies to him. He's a great sense of humour, and loves ALL publicity..in fact, the more funny and naughty it becomes, the more he loves it. Anyway, just needed to clear those parts up...and as to the victim bit, please see the post on 'prey' above. I ain't no-one's victim, sorry to disappoint you. |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 19 May 09 - 09:29 AM OK, I need to clear something up.... This is taken from the thread below, on the fRoots board, written by Diane: The fRoots thread on this video "....My original reservation was not that the adaptation was purposely aimed at those involved in organising Sidmouth (and I am quite certain that it was not), but that A Certain Resident would try to use it as such. Which has indeed occurred but I feel the tide (ha!) has indeed at last turned irrevocably against such a narrow, airheaded, embarrassing-to-performers stance. If the perpetrator's efforts have indeed achieved that too, all hats are hurled as high as possible into the ether, waving Fare Unwell to both the HoC Speaker and the Mad Sidmouth Seagull on their interstellar, one-way journey to oblivion. [A pic of her face when she finally discovers the identity would really be one for the photoboard though . . . ]"<<<< First of all...if you check through this thread, you'll see that not ONCE have I referred to those in the film as being from Sidmouth folk week. I have merely referred to the film in general and the great humour coming from the maker of the video. This was the first reference to it being about someone from Sidmouth, on this thread: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Frozen Gin - PM Date: 17 May 09 - 02:08 PM Now the rest of us know what Joan Crump looks like....cute moustache *LOL*<<<< Then...Diane followed it up with this, where she too refers to the video being about the Sidmouth team, despite her saying above that she didn't feel that at all.... ???? From Diane: "As I already commented earlier on another thread, I am wondering how exactly the current Sidmouth organising committee feels about being likened to the 3rd Reich." I think the video is an absolute treat because it smacks of the very attitude which has followed Show of Hands for years...and the attitude that has followed people who love their music. And *that* is why I love the video. Of course, Joan's now infamous words did come into my mind....and that's why I quoted them (in a German accent)......but so far as doing what Diane claims I've done, on her fRoots thread...nope, Sweetums, you did that almost all on your own, with the help of the above poster and of Joan herself of course, who has slid into the Adolf roll seemingly quite willingly, even choosing to reflect the character in the video on this thread itself, in some of her posts to me... Ain't life just grand at times, huh? LOL ;0) |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Smedley Date: 19 May 09 - 09:25 AM PS Any word on when SoH are recruiting their black lesbian piper? ------------------------------------- No idea, but this unsubtle but funny jibe at tokenism irresistibly reminds me of the presence of Bishi at the Women of Albion concert I saw in Brighton last year. She ticked all the 'equal opps' boxes but heavens to betsy her songs were ghastly. A good example of when well-intentioned political point-scoring overrode taste and talent. |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Ruth Archer Date: 19 May 09 - 09:22 AM Lizzie, I have not been a contributor to Mudcat for 3 months, largely because you and your vendettas scare the shit out of me. I only joined in on this thread because of the backhanded and nasty swipes being made by you at me and the festival that I work for. I decided not to be bullied by you any more. As someone who works in the industry, Mudcat can be quite a dangerous place, thanks to you and one or tweo other cranks. Poor Ian Anderson bore with great dignity your character assassination of him on another thread last week - your response to his silence was to keep chipping away, to keep goading. As someone astutely observed up the thread, if the object of your vendetta responds, you instantly play the victim. Why you are allowed to constantly make vicious, wholesale (not to mention largely ill-informed and slanderous) attacks on people whose only crime is to work their arses off in the folk industry, I have no idea. You had another go at EFDSS recently as well, and were forced to acknowledge within that thread that you have never been to CSH, nor do you have any direct experience of the organisation. So why the endless attacks? Why cant you just giuve it a bloody rest? Be under no illusion: Show of Hands have no issues with me. I have no issues with them. It's all one big folkie love-in. The only one shit-stirring here is you. Stop it now. That's it - I'm outta here. |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: theleveller Date: 19 May 09 - 09:22 AM "I can assure people that The Oysterband have fans who are *anything* BUT 'Daily Mail' readers" We're the ones shouting "Bastards" in Bells of Rhymney. "Socialism's orphan child, Unimpressed, unreconciled Some people think I'm crazy, but I'm not" Or am I? |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Backwoodsman Date: 19 May 09 - 09:20 AM LOL Will! Sory too here taht. Muts tyre hadrer ni futrue. :-) |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: The Borchester Echo Date: 19 May 09 - 09:19 AM PS Any word on when SoH are recruiting their black lesbian piper? |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: The Borchester Echo Date: 19 May 09 - 09:17 AM if you can't say anything nice about musicians, then best not to say anything at all, Scene: outside the Bedford in Sidmouth, madlizziecornish: Through one window are musicians, through the other, PJD. And so on . . . Actually, I'm intervening here merely to forestall Frau Krump from entering the fray with her Festival Artistic Director hat on. Point is, madlizziecornish, what grounds have you to utter a single word about artistic merit and creative programming? Exactly. Do go away and read the message Simon Care, with exemplary patience, has written for you on the EFDSS thread. |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: GUEST,Silas Date: 19 May 09 - 09:04 AM Well, back to the video... I thought it was tremendous fun and bloody clever, so whoever actually did do it, hats off to 'em. As for SoH - utterly brilliant. (But only with Miranda Sykes though) |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 19 May 09 - 09:03 AM "Instead of sticking pins in small effigies of one another, why not simply celebrate all that's great and good in the musical world?" Couldn't agree more leveller and backwoodsman.. And THAT is *exactly* what I've been trying to get 'them' to think about for the past five years or so. This continuous hatred for various artists, in the English folk world has always puzzled, upset and eventually...pissed me off! I love ALL kinds of folk music, be it traditional, folk rock, acappella, vibrant folk, or orgasmic folk...What the f*lk does it matter? Why this constant group of people who want to hurt and wound, put down, belittle and denigrate...? I don't have rules, I don't have boundaries, I simply love great music! And *if* I come across music that doesn't do a great deal for me, as in the musicians who are performing it, then I'd rather keep my mouth shut and not mention it, instead of the vitriol that gets poured out over SoH, Kate and Seth. I can assure people that The Oysterband have fans who are *anything* BUT 'Daily Mail' readers...yet many, MANY of them now love the music of Steve and Phil..and love it even more when The Oysterband and Show of Hands team up at gigs. I've seen them all performing together, jumped up and down with The Oyster fans to the combined music of the two bands and I know that people of all ages, all walks of life, love it all! Include, never Exclude.. And...if you can't say anything nice about musicians, then best not to say anything at all, particularly if you're in the Festival Business, and choose to visit messageboards in your Festival Organiser hat. |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: GUEST,dan leno Date: 19 May 09 - 09:01 AM Oh for the love of whoever. Both bands good if you think so. Clip hysterically funny. Folkies too up their own arses in some cases. Lighten up. (Jeez, bet the Boosh don't have fans like these...) |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Will Fly Date: 19 May 09 - 09:01 AM Sorry Wackboodsman - ist nto posiblee... |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Backwoodsman Date: 19 May 09 - 08:55 AM Now then - is it possible to go back into one of your own posts on Mudcat and edit mis-spelings? Anyone know? |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Backwoodsman Date: 19 May 09 - 08:54 AM artiste(s). F***in' hell! Dyslexic Fingers! |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Backwoodsman Date: 19 May 09 - 08:52 AM boting?? WTF? boring!! |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Backwoodsman Date: 19 May 09 - 08:51 AM The Voice Of Reason - at long last! Thanks Leveller, you beat me to it. Too much of this thread smacks of schoolgirl-playground-yah-boo-sucks. As it happens, I like one of the two bands in question, I hate the other, but I'm happy for those who like the one I dislike - if it's what turns them on, great, go for it! It's a big world, there's plenty of space for all kinds of music and all levels of performer, and it would be a boting place if everyone liked the same artite(s). Instead of sticking pins in small effigies of one another, why not simply celebrate all that's great and good in the musical world? You know it makes sense. |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: theleveller Date: 19 May 09 - 08:25 AM "What really gets my goat, however, are the audiences " Why? What's wrong with people listening to the music they enjoy, whatever their age? I think it's ridiculous to compare the two bands; they simply take a completely different approach to folk music and it is perfectly possible to like both (I do) and, from my experience, I see the same people in the audiences for both. Just because you, personally, don't like one band or the other doesn't mean that they are any less accomplished. There are plenty of highly accomplished folk musicians whose style I don't enjoy, but that doesn't mean I would imply they aren't good musicians. One man's meat, horses for courses etc. |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Gervase Date: 19 May 09 - 07:52 AM I've got a lot of time for Steve Knightly and Phil Beer as individuals. Phil is an extremely good musician who gives a huge amount of his time to helping other musicians and venues, particularly in the South West and who, with commendable modesty, doesn't make a song and dance about it. Similarly, Steve is an excellent songwriter and a good performer. It's just that, as Show of Hands, I find their material hackneyed (or, in the case of the covers, often dimply dull) and their production values both samey and OTT - does there have to be so much echo/sustain on everything Steve sings, for example? What really gets my goat, however, are the audiences - comparing a SoH crowd to a Bellowhead crowd is like comparing a coach outing for Daily-Mail reading Saga louts with a real cross section of ages, colours, classes and creeds. I might be approaching my Saga years myself, but I know which crowd I'd rather be with... |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Will Fly Date: 19 May 09 - 07:12 AM Out of curiosity, I took a short peek at the YouTube video of the "Roots" song. Not my cup of tea, but it was interesting to see how the YouTube comments trail was attracting quite a bit of BNP support and anti-BNP reaction. |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: glueman Date: 19 May 09 - 06:48 AM Jim Eldon and Kate Rusby do Georgio Moroder and Donna Summer. Folk is united and we get a definitive English version of I Feel Love. |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Folkiedave Date: 19 May 09 - 06:40 AM Lizzie you are predictable. Fancy you posting a link to a video of Roots by SOH. No, I haven't looked - I just know that's what you would do. "I hope you haven't been given any grief from that quarter and am sorry if you have." Beer or Knightley? |
|
Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Bellowhead From: Jack Blandiver Date: 19 May 09 - 06:35 AM So that's what Show of Hands sound like - I've often wondered... English Roots? Give me Jim Eldon any day! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2u1SMdJ9a8 |
| Share Thread: |