more session rudeness

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,FolkisCool
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 03:06 PM

I'm sure Otis can sing on campsite until the twentysomethings arrive to take over :P

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,Guest - WrightOldRacket
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 03:05 PM

G-Folk is on the rise Oat.

One of the bands I'm in (props Nic) has a rapper now? Maybe you'd like him in a session with our beatboxer?

Brap

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 03:04 PM

That sounds cool Otis lol

You gonna be singing on the campsite at sidders again?

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,FolkisCool
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 03:04 PM

No Lisa I dont think I have your number in my phone, I never need it I can always find you in the pub!

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,Guest - WrightOldRacket
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 03:03 PM

Nee bother F-I-C. I shut my phone off at night when I'm NOT at a festival now. I enjoy listening to C&H on the answerphone in the morning...

T x

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,dizzyLisa
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 03:02 PM

But it's usually your idea to call me and play that totally unknown and unplayable tune Upton-on-Severn !!! lol

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,Otis Luxton
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 03:01 PM

I'd like to go into a tune session and play the entirety of the music from "hair" back to back - just to piss everyone off. Then there would be no fussing and only one person to dislike. - Im halfway there already. Or i might just to go every session at sidmouth and towersey this year with a really loud boombox playing some Funkadelic or some really obnoxious Psy-trance. Just for shits and giggles.

Oat

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 03:01 PM

He does, Houston - I was mixing him up with a very tall boy with a celebrity girlfriend who dances with Bristol morris...

"Noone'll get into the ship as our ego's will block the door"

That is equally funny and true! :)

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 03:00 PM

I should really refresh this more often lol

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,FolkisCool
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 03:00 PM

...and a little off topic perhaps but it was not my idea to call WrightOldRacket in the middle of the night during a wiltshire festival.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,R2D2
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 03:00 PM

I will make everyone angry.

I LOVE YOU ALL

Please smile for the camera. It's a Kodac moment.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,'cool as folk' brigade
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 02:59 PM

now you cant beat a bit of folk love can you?

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,FolkisCool
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 02:57 PM

Not meant to sound threatening at all, just venting my frustrations at this crazy argument which I dont feel will ever be settled I've seen the conflict and it's best solved by the offended parties to stay away from each other unless they are happy and content to do otherwise.

Much folk love and nothing too threatening.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 02:57 PM

Doesn't "the other whose name resembles a chain of children's toy shops" live in South Devon lol

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,Guest - WrightOldRacket
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 02:54 PM

I'm addicted!!!

FolkisCool, you sounded a little threatening then!!! I'm sure it wasn't mean to be.

I love you all.

t x

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,FolkisCool
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 02:54 PM

Plus as I recall we drank most of what they had to offer last year, so no beverages for anyone else either!

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,'cool as folk' brigade
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 02:52 PM

Noone'll get into the ship as our ego's will block the door

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,dizzyLisa
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 02:51 PM

Schhhhh.....remember how small that bar is......you'll have the whole of Mudcat there, either joining in or waiting for feathers to fly !!!!

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,'cool as folk' brigade
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 02:50 PM

ruth, derbyshire dancer was on a stag do and Toyz'r was there. but te ginger king of wales didn't make it

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 02:49 PM

This thread is hilarious.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,FolkisCool
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 02:47 PM

I know the individuals who this thread is aimed at and I think they're all very talented I have enjoyed attending sessions with them for several years and I'm making my best effords to join in with them now.

If you liked what you heard or you want to up your game or just have it out with us/them then come to The Ship in Sidmouth we'll be there.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,Guest - WrightOldRacket
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 02:44 PM

He who resembled a toy shop was there.

t x

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Def Shepard
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 02:44 PM

irishenglish SAID, " Uh oh...going to get WAV in here now for that one!"

Oh plese don't, please don't :-D

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: irishenglish
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 02:40 PM

Uh oh...going to get WAV in here now for that one!

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 02:39 PM

Crikey, I'm loving all this mystery...

Were the other two melodeon players (one of whom dances Cotswold morris and comes from Derbyshire and the other whose name resembles a chain of children's toy shops) not in attendance?

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,Guest - WrightOldRacket
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 02:38 PM

None of them have ever been on the folk degree. The giveaway is that, if they WERE on the folk degree, you'd ot have heard any morris tunes.

T x

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,Guest - WrightOldRacket
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 02:36 PM

Jeez ok Here goes:

The Guitarist lives in Sheffield and plays sessions there a fair bit. He can also be found in Newcastle from time to time playing there.

Mr Fiddler lives and plays in Bristol
Miss Fiddle lives and plays in Portsmoth

The accordionist (who can also be found playing the Tuba) lives in London but tours the country al the time. good luck finding him in a session!!

The melodeon player lives in South devon.

All of the people listed can be found as artists, guests and just punters at a load of festivals over the summer...

Warwick should be the next reunion.

T x

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,billydo
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 02:35 PM

Folk Degree, perhaps?

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Acorn4
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 02:35 PM

One point about the session that hasn't been made is the location. It was actually in a corner of a marquee just in front of the stage, and unless a singer had a voice of Brian Blessed proportions it was hard to project outside the circle, the bar being in close proximity, whereas the fiddles etc were able to do this, and quiet singers did not really have much of a chance. This was not any fault of the instrumental musicians.

Sometimes a good "Heinz 57" session will attract an audience of punters -the famous sessions in the Bedford at Sidmouth being a classic example - it was difficult for quiet singers to project to do this.

Acoustics are very odd sometimes very strange - a group of Leicester musicians regularly do a charity busk at a shopping centre in a bandstand, and the sound projects really well because of the roof - a tent is probably the worst possible venue acoustically.

The Festival is only young and the orgainiers overall did a great job -perhaps if they note the problems that occurred on the feedback forms, something will be sorted for next year.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Banjiman
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 02:33 PM

"more session rudeness"

I thought the thread title was an invitation..........

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 02:31 PM

I sat in the open sessions in the back of the bar and really regretted not bringing my fiddle. I thought the twentysomethings (in reference to age not numbers. There were only 5 or 6 of them) were inspiring and aside from a small number of tunes which were played most i knew and are trad.
Does anyone know where they come from and if they play at a regular session anywhere?

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,Guest - WrightOldRacket
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 02:29 PM

Good points Mr B.

I think that "open sessions" is the main issue. It would have appeared that there were two schools of "how a session should be" at the festival and they didn't gel as well as could have been hoped.

I personally don't recall an incident when any of (maximum of 6) twentysomethings deliberately avoided conversation with anyone although I may be wrong.

As far as "modulations" are concerned, I'd like to think that the twentysomething's session etiquette when it come to shouting keys, etc is pretty good.

I'm sure we will all learn from this and, in future, things will run more smoothely.

Jeez as far as knicking someone's chair in a session is concerned, it happened to me as well over the weekend. it can only be a mistake. It happens. Move on...

T x

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 02:27 PM

"(*Tuba player looks even harder at the fiddler*)"

LOL! That is SO true.


"Maybe the reason that Ruth was welcolmed and Charley was not was down to Ruth being a beginner"

I think it was just cause we're mates...but we only became mates through me meeting them at festivals. And if they can accomodate an old fart like me (socially or musically) they can't be all bad.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 02:19 PM

I think those who are maligning Charlie need to re-read his opening post. If "Open sessions" were promised, they weren't delivered, and if "keeping sessions going" was what the people were booked for (incidentally, I first read "twenty something" as referring to the number of them) then what they did was not the same, and making faces at others' performances (TDL excepted) is not polite or welcoming, and nicking someone's chair is distincly rude.

Not replying to conversation in sessions is a bit more debatable - many feel that conversation in sessions is rude, but a short politeness beteen tunes is surely appropriate.

Sessioning one's own tunes without including known tunes is not engaging: it limits participants to those who know those tunes and that seems not to have been what the payers were booked for. But there is a place for new tunes - they have to start somewhere.

It does look as if there may have been a crossed wire about the nature of the sessions - some non-singers interpret the expression as excluding singers whereas I would suggest that it should include them (but not if all they want to do is solo) so that accompanied song (with the accompaniment staying in keeping) is as much part of a session as joining in with the played tune of another (and again you should not walk all over it).

It is helpful to those joining in if modulations and variations are preceed by an indication of the new key, by the usual finger gestures if necessary.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 02:18 PM

Seriously Ruth... you don't wanna smack that Tuba player on the bottom!!! oh dear!! the thought is sending ssshhudderrs though me :s

Thanks T Wright Racket, I like your point too, about how regions gettin a bit too arsy about other region tunes being played...

Just appreciate the music...

I have seen my Dad start a traditional tune and end up playing the Troggs "Wild Thing" (for eg.) from the mid-70's on and the "traditionalists" used to jump on his back while another section of people (late 20's, early 30's at the time) embraced it and realised the potential of moving with the times.

It's that same old argument... and it wont leave...

the egos wont let it ;)

Keep the traditional music alive but not the argument please.

Peace, Harmony and Tranquillity (PHAT for short) ;)

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Rasener
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 02:09 PM

Acorn
Ruth appeared at Faldingworth Live about a year and a half ago, and I was very impressed with her voice then as well as her musicianship.
She has come a long way since then and has an excellent future.
Go get Ruth.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,Guest - WrightOldRacket
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 02:06 PM

I'm slightly surprised that anyone would even consider being intimidated by another musician in a session (*Guitarist stares fucking hard at the floor*). I freak out whenever I go to work cos I play with amazing musicians every day. I hope that the twentysomethings were invited to play at the big session because, although they get over excited and play too fast or play tunes that aren't that well know sometimes, they do sessions well and are accommodating as musicians (maybe not as people).

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,dizzyLisa
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 01:59 PM

And they REALLY don't need to mark their territory.....
Sorry, didn't mean to be anonymous before - I clicked prematurely (I even had a d) but have now forgotten it !!

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 01:59 PM

Maybe the reason that Ruth was welcolmed and Charley was not was down to Ruth being a beginner and Charley, possibly a percieved threat ...don't know , I don't know what you do mate, by the way how old are you ? (could be another interesting factor me thinks ??!!)

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,'cool as folk' brigade
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 01:57 PM

(*Tuba player looks even harder at the fiddler*) Charley, can I ask which day you had your experience?

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Acorn4
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 01:56 PM

On the question about my computer, it's almost as old as an Acorn but not quite.

I think all of us who attend sessions of any kind have an ego.

Perhaps we just get better at disguising it as we get a bit older!

On the positive note about the Festival - I think Ruth Notman will be about for a very long time -she's still a bit nervous and not quite the "finished article , but once again, still young but has one of the best voices around clubs and festivals at the moment. Great to see her playing alongside Roger Wilson.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 01:53 PM

"I can hardly ever keep up with them but they have never been rude to me...."

indeed - I was welcomed into the circle last year only a week after buying my melodeon! They are lovely boys really - even if one or two need a smack on the bottom sometimes (*looks hard at the tuba player*)

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,Guest - WrightOldRacket
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 01:52 PM

Cheers Ruth.

Figured a bit of diplomacy was in order. Houston, great points well made dude. See u soon buddy.

I neglected to say before: I heard some awesome songs this weekend by some great singers who I'd never met before and I hope I will see again.

T x

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,Phil J
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 01:52 PM

Charley, did you ever think that these young buggers saw you were a reasonable player and were scared ? I'ts just a thought , maybe by playing their flashy tunes and being less than friendly, they were making a feeble attempt to mark out their territory, sad really

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Def Shepard
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 01:48 PM

Some of the more interesting musicians and interpreters, these days, are the young'uns, I wonder if this is what has some of my fellow 'old farts' so worried:-D

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 01:48 PM

Tom: well said.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 01:44 PM

Gosh, this has moved on apace.... there have been another 1/2 dozen posts in the time it took me to write this so apologies if I am repeating anyone else!!

I also know who you mean. I am an old git who loves the music this lot make...I can hardly ever keep up with them but they have never been rude to me....even though I can often only play the first & last notes !!

I'm in agreement with Houston's TV analogy.....and I've never been to a festival with just ONE session. They're like buses, there's usually another one just round the corner - or if necessary start your own elsewhere.

And as for top class musicians - you will often find "names" playing with them - because they're
a)good
b)fun
c)not taking themselves too seriously

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 01:43 PM

Acorn4, are you using an Acorn computer hence the name? lol

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,Guest - WrightOldRacket
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 01:43 PM

It's very interesting to read everyone's opinions of how Folk Sessions, Jam Sessions, Singarounds and open mic's should be run. There is never really a right or wrong answer. Arrogance is, of course, completely unnecessary but sometimes these so called twentysomethings will come across that way just by having a good time.

FYI People: The group of "Twentysomethings" at the Big session Festival 2008 were invited by the festival organizers to keep the momentum of the sessions going during the weekend. They are a professional or semi professional musicians who work with some of the country's leading traditional ensembles. There were some self penned tunes played over the weekend but, on the whole, that material was deliberately kept to english trad tunes. Hell they even played the Shepherd's Hey for a fuck of a long time too!!!
I think there was a slight conflict of interest throughout the weekend due to the fact of the majority of people wanting to play the session were guitarist/singers who were enjoying playing with each other. The Twentysonethings were fully aware of this and, by the Sunday, chose only to play when invite to by the gentleman running the session (loved the A-min version of "Get Back" by the way. Cheers for the break!!).

Maybe it's easier when a session is better defined to start with. I know if I go to the Cooperage in Newcastle and rip into a set of morris Jigs they'll rend me in twain but if any of those chaps were to play a kicking set of Scottish tunes at the Kelham in Sheffield then they'd be equally poorly received.

I suggest that, if the big session wants sessions, they should define them in the program better. "Open Session" is a dangerous thing at a festival as it causes this kind of conflict in the first place.

There. Had my say.

T x

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 01:41 PM

Dear lord!!!

This seems to be an age old argument that never seems to go away de to hissy fitting people who throw there rattle (or other instrument) out of their pram when no-one's giving them attention.

Phil... sentence containing black, pot and a water boiling device?!

PEACE & LOVE people... we're supposed to be folkies... just kiss and make up and be grateful these "kids" or should I say young adults are carrying on the tradition (including this silly argument lol)!

Love you all