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From Max: State of the Union Address
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: redsnapper Date: 12 May 06 - 07:07 AM My point Lynne is that if everybody did that on a regular basis for every single local event (I would exclude "start-up" club threads and news about Mudcat Gatherings from my comments as that seems fair and proper as opposed to a "weekly calendar" for a very local event), the forum would be quickly inundated given the number of folk clubs, performers and gigs there are in the UK and in dozens of other other countries. And why should they not, since the precedent is already set? I've seen this abused over the years by the same few individuals (not you I hasten to add) and I don't think that's really on for a world-wide site. Surely this is why individual clubs have their own websites and local folk networks? As I mentioned, I'd be happy to see the "What's on?" permathread further developed for this use rather than the general threads which are intended mainly for wide-ranging musical discussion (which used to be the case six or seven years ago when I first joined up). This is, however, just my personal opinion and I don't run the site! Others will undoubtedly disagree with what I have said. Love and best wishes, redsnapper |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: MBSLynne Date: 12 May 06 - 06:42 AM Not very happy at Red snapper's comment about "Gall and Cheek". I don't feel I'm being cheeky or having gall when I post my thread about our sessions. I bet I've never heard of any of your sessions due to them not being publicised at all on Mudcat. P'raps I might enjoy them if I knew they were there. At our first session we not only had a car load from Hull, we also had Mudcatters from the US and Shanghai who happened to be visiting the UK and new about the session due to the thread. It wasn't particularly local to where they were going, but they came anyway. Love Lynne |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: Emma B Date: 12 May 06 - 06:41 AM Well I already have my raffle prize ready for the Yorks Gathering... If anyone is co-ordinating the UK contributions - include me in |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: Susan of DT Date: 12 May 06 - 06:37 AM Max - You will be getting all my auction money and I will throw in more. Some of the rest of you must have LPs that you would rather send to new homes. LP mailers are still available, which was my biggest issue on doing this, and LPs are legal for inexpensive media rates on US postage. |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: John MacKenzie Date: 12 May 06 - 06:04 AM Well done Roger for proving Max's point. G |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: Lin in Kansas Date: 12 May 06 - 05:56 AM Oh for God's sake, Shambles! Get a grip, will you? Max, thanks for the much-needed message. And many, many thanks to you and to Dick and Susan for all the wonderful songs I've learned over the last few years--you've broadened MY horizons, for sure. I will admit to not hanging around the 'Cat nearly as much lately--I have gotten seriously fed-up with all the whining and the political bullshit, and haven't felt the need or desire to attempt to contribute anything to those many threads. I tend to browse the info in the Music threads and occasionally try to find a tune for MMario and the Great Tune Hunt. Frankly, I miss the fun folks used to have here--I'd forgotten how wild some of the Tavern threads could get, and the flights of fancy indulged in were priceless--don't see much of that anymore. Everyone seems to be much too busy complaining, whining, or just being cantankerous! Never thought I would agree with anything Gargoyle said, but "The opportunity to participate in this community has been a true gift from your soul to the international world. May you find klein-geld for one of the finest OPEN net-forums of the past decade." pretty well sums it up for me, too. (Thanks, Garg.) Lin |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: The Shambles Date: 12 May 06 - 05:50 AM You do this purposefully to prove a point, but in the end, you are a distraction from the real point of this site. Max - Perhaps you can re-state for all of us what the real point of the site is? Whatever the point of the site - I have always been led to believe that the real point of the bit of your site that you have provided as a public discussion forum was to encourage the public to post to it. Perhaps you would agree that our forum now seems to have changed to where the point appears to be to encourage other posters to intentionally find way to judge the worth of, to complain about, restrict and generally try to inhibit others from posting? |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: The Shambles Date: 12 May 06 - 05:33 AM Censorship and Attitude rolled into one Is closing threads censorship? Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum Do you need to be censored |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: The Shambles Date: 12 May 06 - 05:08 AM Dear Max Nice to see that you have not been bound and gagged in the cellar. Shambles: I just don't care anymore. You press your point, time after time, until you press too far and then complain about the check. You do this purposefully to prove a point, but in the end, you are a distraction from the real point of this site. You too, should bid farewell. Perhaps you could understand - I do care and that partly the reason why I have pressed the point is to obtain (or provoke) this public statement from the organ grinder rather than the monkey? An earler public statement of intent from you would have prevented me from pressing the point to the extent that I have recently felt I had to. If you can provide (publcly or privately) the answers to the follow few questions - I can then decide if I wish to continue posting here - unless you are banning me after all these years? It is difficult to see how our heads can be banged together - if you are now publicly saying that one of should go ( i.e' me). As I am the one who likes your terms and conditions and does not need to impose changes to shape our form to my requirements. For I admit I am guilty of posting and encouraging others to post and this would appear to be now out-of- step with the currently encouraged example of finding ways to inihibit and complain about other posters. The only 'complaints' that are now thought a problem are any posts questioning any of our moderator's conduct - any other complaints would appear to actively encouraged - especally if they are in agreement with the personal views and complaints of the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team. I have not made a habit of ever posting abusive personal attacks on any fellow poster nor of responding in kind to the many I am encouraged to be subjected to and not protected from. Whatever the provocation. I post what I mean and I mean what I post. Am I the kind of poster that should now 'bid farewell' because other posters are encouraged to try and find way to prevent me (and other posters) from contributing? The intentionally destructive posters - be they guest or members are not a problem and can quite easily be dealt with - but this cannot be done if (some of) those you select to protect us from abusive personal attacks set the example of indulging in this and of responding in kind. Perhaps setting the example that encourages this combat on our forum will now end? I consider that far from being anti-Mucat, anti anything - or that I have ever contributed anything that could be described as anti-Mudcat posts - that I have openly been the longest supporter of your pubicly stated aims for our forum. For this I (and others) have been subjected to what is clearly personally motivated censorship and special treatment from those whose stated aims for our forum is now to change the free invitation to shape our forum you have always extended to the public. Can you confirm if the Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team's latest proposal to restrict the BS posting to members only and to 'review' all the Guest posting on the Music section - is going to be finally accepted by you or not. And if this not going to happen (in the near future) - is our forum going to continue to be divided by and subject to the current imposed and personally motivated censorship actions that the Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team has recently and publicy admitted have failed to impose the required 'peace'? Or is there now going to be a change to this approach? An end to anonymous editing button perhaps? |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: alanabit Date: 12 May 06 - 05:06 AM I just want to mirror the sentiments of most of the other posters. I am very grateful for Mudcat and I wish I could contribute more. As my financial situation - which would currently bring tears to a glass eye - improves, I certainly will. The comment about Mudcat being seen as a UK forum is something you could not have forseen in the early days Max. I take no offence at your comment, indeed, I read it more as, "We would welcome more Americans". That is the beauty of it though. People are welcome from everywhere. The UK Catters have the advantage of living within relatively short distances of each other. Inevitably, the word spreads faster there. If, say Max in California, Deckman in Washington, Don Meixner in New York and Jed Marum in Texas want to meet up for a lunch time pint and sing, you ain't going to get there on the number nine bus! I have found some of the rudeness and spite tiresome at times, but I have been able to spot trouble coming and simply move on to other threads. The good has far outweighed the bad in my experience and I am deeply grateful to many in this community for their kindness, wisdom and generosity. My life has been much richer for it. I hope the same ultimately proves to be true for you Max. |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: John MacKenzie Date: 12 May 06 - 04:56 AM Thanks Max, I knew you would be thinking along those lines, and I'm glad to have confirmation. I too will try and send you some bucks, I know it's been too long since my last payment. As has been said, the UK FoM has been dormant, but we have had a little local difficulty regarding an office bearer being over the horizon recently. I have spoken to Micca and John Routledge about this, and things are in hand, anything I can do to help Micca? I am home all day most days, so have time on my hands, so I am available to help as required. Let's go back to being friends and if disagreeing do so as politely as possible, it isn't necessary to descend to the gutter to find words to express your opposing views. Yes I know certain posters will say, "Tough that's life Giok, get real" I know that's life but it doesn't have to pervade every corner of it does it? Giok |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: redsnapper Date: 12 May 06 - 04:49 AM But if everybody who could use it for local events did so in that way Mr Happy, we'd simply have thousands of threads of local rather than general interest. I don't think that's what the 'Cat was conceived for. I would, however, happily endorse an expansion of the "What's On? - Who's performing where?" permathread for such use rather than the main threads. RS |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: Mr Happy Date: 12 May 06 - 04:41 AM I echo & endorse the sentiments of Micca, Richard Bridge, gargoyle, Jenny O, & MBS Lynne, on the merits of Mudcat. If not for this fantastic resource, I'd never have met so many kindred spirits all around the world - later to meet some in the flesh - both of 'Limeys' and visiting folk from the antipodes & the Americas. Also I don't regard myself or any other catters in any location as being 'offenders' if local events are mentioned. Part of the attraction of MC for me [& looks like many others] is the wholesome exchange of both local & international about folking about all over the place!! Many thanks Max! |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: My guru always said Date: 12 May 06 - 04:24 AM All of what's been said & much more. I'm not able to verbalise my thoughts just now but I'm so glad for what's been said in this thread. Those of us who use (rather than abuse) the MudCat have have been able to expand our lives and our music beyond my dreaming and this has been priceless! In my small way I've tried to raise awareness and funds in the UK and shall continue to do so though I have little to give myself. Micca you know where I am, my assistance is available for FoM - you want references? |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: redsnapper Date: 12 May 06 - 04:13 AM P.P.S. Taking what Micca said... isn't there a special "What's On?" thread for that kind of thing? Maybe that part of the forum could be developed a little more? RS |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: redsnapper Date: 12 May 06 - 04:09 AM P.S. I also regret the use of the Mudcat repeatedly by certain individuals to advertise purely local events. I am also on the East side of the pond where the main offenders are. I also organise folk and blues events on a weekly basis but would never have the gall or cheek to use a world-wide forum to advertise them. I use my own resources and my own money for that. redsnapper |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: redsnapper Date: 12 May 06 - 04:01 AM Dear Max, Paypal contribution sent! Thanks for the message and thanks for the site. Long may it continue! redsnapper (long-time member with a new name) |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: GUEST,micca at work Date: 12 May 06 - 03:45 AM First and most important, John Routledge and I , as Officers of the "Friends of Mudcat" (an organization founded to channel contributions from the UK to Mudcat central regularly in a manner not to incurr excessive Bank Charges) are currently discussing ways of reviving and re-publicising the activities of "FoM" and holding elections of Officers. Secondly, I support what Max says, but would add that what may appear to be superficially "of Local interest" only is often Very Useful if one is travelling to other parts of ones own country and also if travelling abroad, the "Local" thread gives names of contacts in an area, for instance, I know who to contact if I can raise the money to visit Sydney in Oz, Partly through posts, partly through Secret Santas, and partly through being contacted and hosting visiting Australians!!! all Thanks to Mudcat, Similarly my "annual" visits to the Getaway, The trips would be IMPOSSIBLE without Mudcat, I would have never been to either the Getaway or to the Press Room in Portsmouth NH (which I learned about from Mudcat, local news stuff) and I would have missed out on meeting and making friends with a wide range of interesting people. It is one of the beauties of the Internet that I think Mudcat epitomises, it is both International and local and Can and Should be, because you never know when YOU might end up in Manchester!! (either NH or Lancs,) and be looking for an evening of Folk Music. Many thanks Max, you are an Hero and much appreciated by Your Friend Micca |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: MBSLynne Date: 12 May 06 - 02:48 AM One of the really good things about Mudcat is the threads on events that you may not otherwise hear about and also the chance to tell people about your own. Our Quarter session, which has been running so well for a year and a half now, was started due to conversation with someone I met on Mudcat and who is now a friend and who brought a whole car full of Catters to our first session. We've been supported by Catters from all over the country. All this because of a thread on Mudcat. Like JennyO, I wouldn't be able to do anything technological to advertise the event so Mudcat is a wonderful resource. Thanks Max, for starting this thread, and for everything. Hearing from you makes it a little easier to put up with some of the crap. I'm sad about the number of obnoxious people on here who seem to come in just to stir trouble, but on the other hand, I've met so many people I now consider friends since I've been here that it's all worth it just for that. And that does include the Americans and Aussies too. Love Lynne |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: Richard Bridge Date: 12 May 06 - 02:20 AM Some of the informational stuff (eg about song origins, or different forms of words) is truly wonderful and one of the great things is the ability to get information from all of the main English language nations, which sometimes can be of great help. The Digitrad is a resource beyond price. I do however think that another strength is the ability to notify a large possibly like-minded group of events: you never know who might be passing and be able to drop in. Certainly when my wife Jacqui died I had people come both to her wake and the barbecue deathiversary who I would not have been able to inform without mudcat, and who would have had no likelihood of searching the internet for a website of announcement, and I was very happy to be able to make a contribution out of the proceeds of her life insurance. Likewise I would be unaware of Wheaton Aston this weekend, which I happen to be passing, well away from my home, without the Mudcat. |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: JennyO Date: 12 May 06 - 01:56 AM BTW, Being somewhat technologically challenged, I wouldn't know how to set up a regional calendar website. However, this site JAM has most of the information about folk doings in NSW Australia, and is a great resource for us locals. I'd be happy to have a link to it put somewhere. You might notice if you look in the next day or two, that a story about a performer at my folk club, Chloe Hall, is currently the Top Story there. I hope I wasn't being too rude mentioning that ;-) Jenny |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: JennyO Date: 12 May 06 - 01:45 AM This thread is like a breath of fresh air, and gives me hope for the future of Mudcat. Being in Australia, and not having much cash to throw around, I have not contributed in that way. I don't use Paypal and am not keen to. If there was somebody in Oz that does use Paypal and is willing to be a representative, I'd be happy to try and raise some money and give it to them to pass on. Anybody? Mark Clark, I have to disagree with one of the things you said: To use Mudcat as a communication resource for small regional interest groups seems selfish and rude to me. I read with interest plenty of threads about things that are happening in other parts of the world. Most of it is small and regional, with rare exceptions like the Getaway, but I find it interesting - it expands my horizons. I was under the impression that Max was encouraging us to do this more than we have been actually: Max: We should use this place to meet each other, organize and/or promote events. I advertise my folk club through various sources locally, but have rarely posted on that subject here because there are only a handful of Sydney 'catters - except for instance when El Greko and Cloudstreet were at North By Northwest Folk Club in April. I was just starting to feel encouraged to do it more when I read what you said. Should I feel selfish and rude for entertaining the idea? I don't think so. Jenny |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: Ron Davies Date: 12 May 06 - 12:14 AM In persuading some who have left to come back, a big selling point may well be that the named sociopath--who drove a lot of people away--is gone--for good this time. I've already PM'd Don Firth. Anybody else who should be notified? |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: Mark Clark Date: 11 May 06 - 11:57 PM I just happened by, refreshed an old thread, then saw this thread. I'm one who used to try to contribute here and enjoyed both shared interests and exposure to new things. I think I'm pretty thick skinned but, eventually, I too became weary of the insults and shallow attempts to dominate the discourse without the prerequisite background. I think some of the information stored on Mudcat servers is a national treasure and should be preserved for all to share and research. Of course there is also a great deal of verbiage with no value whatever. I do think that some of the posters here should establish their own calendar Websites to advertise events of local or regional interest. To use Mudcat as a communication resource for small regional interest groups seems selfish and rude to me. Mudcat has a links page and links to regional calendar sites can be placed there. People with supreme confidence in the value of their own opinions can publish them free without fear of contradiction at Blogger.com. No doubt their readership will quickly outstrip the meager traffic here. There are some things that should continue to be supported in the world even if I have no immediate personal association with them. The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) is one example. The Mudcat Cafe (with The Digital Tradion database) is another. - Mark |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 11 May 06 - 11:55 PM
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: Janie Date: 11 May 06 - 11:41 PM What Bill said. Janie |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: maire-aine Date: 11 May 06 - 11:40 PM Good evening, Max. Thanks for your hard work and I support your plans. I, for one, would like to see more US content, particularly around the Great Lakes area and the Midwest. Although I sometimes find the political threads interesting, they seem to generate more heat than light lately. I miss the times when I could participate in an exchange of ideas with other folks who share my interests. I have sent along a few bucks now and then, so I don't feel like I'm taking advantage of anybody. Maybe we can return to the comfortable place we were in a few years ago. I hope so. Maryanne |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 11 May 06 - 11:21 PM Max: "I've got to tell you, I'm sick and tired of some of the crap that I've seen lately. " Thank you Max, you are not alone. Many people have expressed a similar thought. If there is any way you can use my technical expertise, just ask, I won't keep annoying you with endless offers. Financially, I am little able to do much more than I have. Because of the varying exchange rate, it also hits me much harder than US citizens at times. When I joined this place, there was a large imbalance of UK over US stuff, which appealed to me, and is why I hung around, but I support any efforts to restore the balance. I like music of all types. There have been many endless streams of 'suggestions' about 'improving' this place, I just hope you can eventually make the place more stable - in many senses of the word! As I have said, I came here for the craic, not the crackpots! And thank you very much for 'speaking from Mount Olympus'! Robin |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: Ron Davies Date: 11 May 06 - 11:16 PM Is there any way to contribute by Visa? |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: Max Date: 11 May 06 - 11:10 PM Our paypal account is: max@mudcat.org and is the preferred payment type for us. If you have hesitance to contribute through paypal.com, I certainly understand. You may also send checks or money orders to: The Mudcat Cafe PO Box 3006 West Chester, PA 19381 or Camsco Music 145 Hickory Corner Rd. East Windsor, NJ 08520 or our UK and Australian friends who will hopefully post their information to this thread soon. Non-US residents should not send foreign currency/checks/money orders to me. Bank fees make it a very poor method of contribution. Use paypal, work with our representatives in your country or convert you money before sending it. |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: Amos Date: 11 May 06 - 11:08 PM Another fundraiser is about due, eh? There's lots of stuff in the AUction! And if you don't have your set of Mudcat CDs you could email Dick and get them in time for Independence Day or a summer birthday! Thanks of speaking out, Max. An envelope is on its way -- a small amount for now, more later. A |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: Clinton Hammond Date: 11 May 06 - 11:03 PM Give a man a fish..... |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: artbrooks Date: 11 May 06 - 11:01 PM My PayPal contribution is on the way. |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: Bill D Date: 11 May 06 - 11:00 PM *absorbing and thinking* |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: open mike Date: 11 May 06 - 10:56 PM here, here. unfortunatley those who are no longer around will not see this. agreed we all need to help support this site if we use, enjoy and depend on it. buy a t-shirt, or a patch, or participate in the auction. the set of mudcat c.d's are great....get some! do we need to invent a new money making plan--there have been recipe books, and many other projects. thanks for your efforts, and your payments, Max. Remind us how to pay pal you. I subscribe to 3 music magazines... Sing Out, Dirty Linen and No Depression They all cost about $20-25 a year, and only come out every month or two. This resource is available every day, and is an interactive way to make contact with many like-minded folks. the networking available here is priceless. I am willing to pay pal $20 for the opportunity to access this site. Will any one else join me? Laurel |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: Clinton Hammond Date: 11 May 06 - 10:56 PM "I am footing the bill for over 50% of the expenses year-to-date." Maybe it's time for some adds... Or maybe to work in partnership with other Folk oriented music sites like, I donno, folkalley or others of that ilk? (Just thinking out-loud here....) "She ain't what she used to be." Things never are.... "We'll never get it back." Looking forward always beats looking back "This site should be about our eclectic interest in old-time traditional music from all over the world." There is an easy way to make it so.... Only allow on-topic posts.... If someone else wants to host an Off-Topic, sort of sister-board to Mudcat, let them.... This way you wouldn't have to 'sweat the bullflop' at all |
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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address From: bobad Date: 11 May 06 - 10:52 PM My cheque is in the mail. |
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Subject: From Max: State of the Union Address From: Max Date: 11 May 06 - 10:43 PM I've got to tell you, I'm sick and tired of some of the crap that I've seen lately. Martin Gibson: you have to pack up and go. Your knowledge and contributions are valuable, and it's a shame that your sociopathy prevents us from hosting you or taking you seriously anymore. Shambles: I just don't care anymore. You press your point, time after time, until you press too far and then complain about the check. You do this purposefully to prove a point, but in the end, you are a distraction from the real point of this site. You too, should bid farewell. Joe: Do I need to separate you two? Americans: We're losing to the Limey's. I attempt to lure American Folk artists, historians, archivists and enthusiasts to the Mudcat, and am repeatedly rejected because the Mudcat is now viewed as an UK Folk Forum. I don't blame the UK'ers, nor wish them to change anything they are doing, however, I'd like a nice balance so not to alienate either. Members/Users: We've never had a worse year as far as contributions. I am footing the bill for over 50% of the expenses year-to-date. We have maybe a dozen folks that contribute on any sort of consistent basis. I'd like to refuse any further contribution from these folks, because I feel they carry a burden that they need not if I did my job right. I would like to see a whole new set of folks step up to the plate and get us through a month or more. Remember, it does not need to come out of your pocket. We have an international community of like-people here. Items that one may have and not need or want no longer can find a happy home in our auction. You can host a sing and put a tip bucket out. There are a million things you can think of to support this site and it's purpose. Nude calendars, recipes, blackmail… Max: You need to keep this site running smoothly. These downtimes and outages are unacceptable for a real Website. We want reliability and we want you to fix the duplication and miss-ordered threads. Most importantly, you need a better backup system to ensure we won't lose any of this valuable resource. Jeff: I want the related threads to be in a drop down box. For that matter, I'd like the thread posting summary in a drop down as well. Everyone: She ain't what she used to be. We'll never get it back. This site should be about our eclectic interest in old-time traditional music from all over the world. Our local communities don't have a lot to offer us as far as merchandise and community, so we go to the Mudcat. We should welcome the newbies. We should covet the information we have now and strive to collect more. We should use this place to meet each other, organize and/or promote events. Please, don't forget the good of such a place. To those of you who aren't around so much anymore: Give us another shot, please. |
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