Who is a Traditional Musician?

Subject: RE: Who is a Traditional Musician?
From: GUEST,Peter From Essex
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 03:15 PM

The discussion seems to be confusing traditional musicans and traditional music. (Plus the usual confusion between "musician" and "singer")

In my view it has to be somebody who has learned their musical skill because music is a part of their commumity rather than making a concious decision to become a folk musician.

There are still English travellers such as the Orchards who are genuinely "traditional" performers and some quite young "old timers" around like Mark Bazely.

Subject: RE: Who is a Traditional Musician?
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 03:11 PM

They are many people who refer to real traditional musicians.

Are there any musicians who consider themselves to be real traditional musicians? I have never found one who does, so maybe no one is?

Subject: RE: Who is a Traditional Musician?
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 02:33 PM

Dave, I was tuning up to write another of my four page screeds on this subject, then I saw your post just above. Your quote of Burl Ives says exactly what I was going to say, but he managed to say it precisely and succinctly. Beautiful! Saved me a lot of typing.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Who is a Traditional Musician?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 01:00 PM

I'm fond of quoting Burl Ives on this subject.

He said something like: "People call me a folk singer. I'm not. I sing songs I like. It just happens that most of the songs I like are folk songs."

That says it all, to me.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Who is a Traditional Musician?
From: Declan
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 12:52 PM

To me the only meaningful definition of a traditional musician is someone who plays traditional music, and that means music which is rooted in the traditions of a particular area. There is plenty of good music that is being written today in the traditional idiom which I think is validly called traditional music. I don't think the tune or the song itself has to be passed down through generations to become traditional, it has more to do with the style and feel of the thing which is in keeping with the tradition.

I know there are people who will have other definitions of this, but to the extent that there's any need to define this or to categorise music into boxes, this definition works for me. If someone asks me is something is traditional or not, my answer would usually be, who cares? Its much more a question of whether you like it or not.

Subject: RE: Who is a Traditional Musician?
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 12:47 PM

To me "revivalist" sounds like we're intentionally trying to bring back something that is dying -- but I'd rather sing those old songs anyway, they appeal to me more than modern pop culture tunes - (although they have their place, too). I don't feel like I'm reviving anything, just carrying it forward.

And yes, I dislike a whole evening of new singer-songwriter songs. I feel when performing that one has to include something familiar about every third song, or even more often if playing for an older crowd.

Subject: RE: Who is a Traditional Musician?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 12:43 PM

I play a lot of traditional music, despite being one of them danged Singer/songwriters. Even if I played all traditional music, I wouldn't consider myself a traditional musician. Not even sure what people mean by that... probably people who didn't grow up in the tradition who play traditional music. It don't really matter much to me. Just like Jimmy asked why people don't play 60's folk music. I don't think there is any "60's folk music." I think he meant, folk music that became popular in the 60's. Are we playing 2,000 Aught folk music right now? The term traditional music means something to me, but not traditional musicians, unless we're looking at the last of old-timers(rapidly approaching being one myself.) But heck, even Uncle Dave Macon and Charlie Poole and Doc Watson all played popular songs they heard growing up. And they learned stuff from records, too.

I found the traditional musicians thread like reading about Martian musicians. Not being an instrumentalist or playing in a string band, the thoughts in that thread would never occur to me. If I'm not playing in concert pitch, it's because I rarely play with another musician, so if in repeated tuning, I wander up a half step, so what? Even when I played regularly with another musician, we just tuned to each other, and would have thought the idea of an electronic tuner, or even a pitch pipe was bizarre. Mostly, I just play the stuff. Let others worry about how to categorize things. :-)

Jerry

Subject: RE: Who is a Traditional Musician?
From: C-flat
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 12:41 PM

I really don't know what a "traditional musician" is. I've been playing "old songs" for thirty years and even the new ones that I learned then are "old" now!
The only factor that led me to learn, listen to, or buy any music was whether I liked it or could play it.
I quite often learned to play things I didn't like because there was something of educational merit but, once cracked, I moved on.
I know there are some strong "traditionalists" on this site but I've never really understood the criteria that a song must meet before it's considered appropriate.
Is there a specific date, before which, a song is considered "traditional"?
Will future generations therefore regard Eminems' music as "traditional"?
I'm sure there are modern writers of "traditional" music whose work is every bit as valid as a good song that has been passed down through generations and for me, the emphasis should rest solely on the word "good".
But here we're getting into personal taste.

Subject: RE: Who is a Traditional Musician?
From: jimmyt
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 12:28 PM

Les, I share your thoughts on exactly what a "traditional" musician is. I don't, however, see exactly what the negative implications are with "revivalist" I admire players like you that play a cross-section of music, and I don't see a darn thing wrong with playing music that others have performed before, be it in the 50's 60's or whenever. Good music should be appreciated if it is performed well and with feeling. Did you ever get tired of listening to a whole evening of "singer-songwriter" stuff that was all new? I think sometimes the listener needs to have a sort of "auditory home base" where the familiar stuff gives us a baseline. I know I'm rambling...probably because my meds are out of balance!

Subject: Who is a Traditional Musician?
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 12:10 PM

Having just read the thread on "Traditional Musician and Tuning," which was quite informative, I found myself wondering who can rightfully claim to be a "Traditional Musician"?

I would think that most of us would be seen as "revivalists," although I don't particularly care for all that name seems to imply. I've been playing folk, old-timey, and bluegrass since the 1960's but don't consider myself a "Traditional" player. Most of my tunes and songs I've learned from records, or from other people who in turn learned from records or books or radio broadcasts.

Hopefully this won't turn into a "What is Folk Music" discussion. What are your thoughts ?