BS: Gun Threads - Has one Cat changed their mind?

Subject: RE: 'Gun Threads' Has one Cat changed their mind?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 29 May 99 - 04:19 PM

Nope. I was sincere in wanting to know if ANYONE had changed their mind (even slightly) about the issue as a result of the previous threads. A simple "yes, no, or maybe". Apparently not, at least so far, but thanks to the couple of folks who answered the question. I guess tragedy (on one's own doorstep) is the only thing that even has a chance to sway (some) minds on this issue. Words and articulate arguments will just never do it.

Subject: RE: 'Gun Threads' Has one Cat changed their mind?
From: John Hindsill
Date: 29 May 99 - 02:54 PM

Rick - That WAS a rhetorical question? Right?

Subject: RE: 'Gun Threads' Has one Cat changed their mind?
From: Bulldog
Date: 29 May 99 - 02:32 PM

I would agree with the banning of guns, if in fact it would save lives. Regretfully, criminals have the ability to make them. Consider the fact that the Pathans in Afghanistan make AK47 clones, on foot operated lathes, what chance do we in north America have of banning them at all? Most people have the finacial ability to purchase small lathes and drills, books with technical information, and the materials to manufacture them very efficiently. Not to mention the fact that the entire might of England, and the Soviet Union, could not disarm the Pathans or the IRA, makes interesting food for thought? I am in more danger of being killed by a Drunk or Dope user, driving a registered car, without a valid driving permit, and no insurance, than I am from gun weilding fanatics. That being said, Brown Bess muskets were the assault AK 47's 250 years ago. Reasonable gun laws are just. Unreasonable knee-jerk laws are useless and fuel the irrational emotion generated legislation that neither saves lives, nor prevents criminal violence. I do not subscribe to the idea everyone should carry a gun, but in the past it was considered essential to survival. We progress in time and technology but not wisdom. However, I am sure that I would have been safer in Teddy Roosevelts day, when everyone wore one. Cordially. Dave

Subject: RE: 'Gun Threads' Has one Cat changed their mind?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 May 99 - 01:25 PM

Well, I'd like to see firearms banished altogether. I think we'd all be a lot safer. I don't have actual numbers to prove it, but I think it's safe to say that a large number of firearms deaths are accidental or done in the passion of the moment, caused by people who would do otherwise if they had a chance to think about it.

That's my opinion. Unfortunately, there are many good people who sincerely disagree with my point of view, and those people have as much right to their opinion as I have to mine. While these discussions may not serve to change opinions, perhaps they will help us understand those we disagree with. I think that most people on both sides of the gun control issue are sincere and well-meaning in their beliefs. I think it's important for us all to understand that, and to treat our opponents with respect.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: 'Gun Threads' Has one Cat changed their mind?
From: Bashem
Date: 29 May 99 - 11:27 AM

Local paper reports an improved detection device

that will aid in prevention of guns and knives being

brought to school and it is also sensitive enough

to detect copies of the TEN COMMANDMENTS ...

Subject: RE: 'Gun Threads' Has one Cat changed their mind?
From: Chet W.
Date: 29 May 99 - 10:57 AM

A lot of the answers put forth by the "let's not control guns" camp were of course the right answers. If there was more moral culpability and better parenting and all the rest it wouldn't matter how many guns were available. But the fact is that these social changes, if they happen, will be a long time in the changing, and what do we do in the meantime? Is anyone content to say "oh, those kids would still be alive if they had only come along when we had solved this parenting thing" and leave it at that? It seems that for some of us guns are a big part of our identities, just as my musical instruments are a big part of mine. But if I thought that somehow registering instruments and restricting access to them (like a waiting period and background check, to name two) would save a life somewhere, why would I hesitate to co-operate? I might not like the idea with all of my heart, but the tip of the balance is clear. No, I have not changed my mind at all. I never advocated taking guns away from law-abiding non-felon citizens, but that seems to be what a lot of people heard. I tried hard to make myself clear, and I don't want to make this decision for everybody, but it should concern us that a large majority of Americans consistently tell opinion gatherers that they want some kind of gun control, and yet our lawmakers seem loathe to do it, and the reason why is painfully clear ($$$$$). Let's put our efforts together and hope that good will alone can solve this horrible problem, but if not, the legal system will work if enough people put enough effort into it. Right now a lot of cities are suing gun manufacturers. Surely not the best way in a perfect world, but it's a way that's available. Some will win, some will lose, but maybe altogether we can accomplish what the Southern Poverty Law Center did to the KKK. Maybe when the gun manufacturers get tired of being sued they will put their own pressure on the NRA and other irresponsible tunnelvision orgs. Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.

Chet W.

Subject: RE: 'Gun Threads' Has one Cat changed their mind?
From: Margo
Date: 29 May 99 - 10:44 AM

Not I, said the goose. I still maintain my opinion that I had before the thread came along, BUT I was very grateful to read all the points of view because it helps me to understand other people's concerns and ideas.

Rick, I often have to change what I say when I'm writing, whether it is here in the forum or in a letter. I keep having to reread and evaluate what was said to see if I really expressed myself properly.

Margarita

Subject: RE: 'Gun Threads' Has one Cat changed their mind?
From: Bulldog
Date: 29 May 99 - 06:50 AM

The important thing is; has anyone a sensible solution to violence? Until we introduce Consequence and Moral culpability to humans, countless people will whine about gun control; until politicians introduce more "Feel Good Legislation" without addressing the real issues. Sensible legislation is not in favour these days, which is a great pity. Ignorance can be cured, Stupidity cannot. Regards: Dave.

Subject: RE: 'Gun Threads' Has one Cat changed their mind?
From: puzzled
Date: 29 May 99 - 01:09 AM

Didn't change mine. but my additions to the gun threads were put there because i thought a variety of opinions should be expressed to show the complexity of the issue.
On such a topic i would be greatly surprised to see any converts.

Subject: RE: 'Gun Threads' Has one Cat changed their mind?
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 May 99 - 11:36 PM

Dear Rick,

Forgot to say thanks for starting this, as I think some might think I was waffling. If it was the days of my childhood, my father's childhood, or even my grandfather, my stance would be quite a bit different. As it is, I still think the same as stated previously.

Thanks,

kat

Subject: RE: 'Gun Threads' Has one Cat changed their mind?
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 May 99 - 11:29 PM

Not mine! No easy answers on this issue. And, Rick, I really don't think you have a thing to apologise for.

Katlaughing, "sweetie"

Subject: 'Gun Threads' Has one Cat changed their mind?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 28 May 99 - 10:55 PM

I was really surprised to see the "Guns Hesitatingly" thread come crawling back. I know it's been a low-key kind of week, and a little controversy can liven things up, but I was hoping it would poop out (at least til the next sad news story.) Speaking personally, it (and the other gun ones) brought out the worst in me - I was sarcastic, rude, and critical of some, for things other than the thread's content. That's lack of control brought on by frustration, and I apologise.
So many passioned arguments have been put forth on ALL (there are more than two) sides, and I truly wonder, has all the rhetoric changed anyone's mind away from their original position.
Please, let's not make this thread heated. I'm just curious whether anyone's words convinced a Mudcatter that they were wrong.
sincerely, rick.