Singing a song in first person- racial issue

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 07:47 AM

BTW, thanks for the clarification, George.

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 07:44 AM

Bonzo3legs, what does political correctness have to do with this? Are you saying that it is better to sing lyrics without giving any consideration to the possibility that people might be offended? Sure, the lyric from this piece which is quoted uses the word "Negro" in a historical context, but that doesn't mean that some people would not be offended by its use. Are you saying that you (I'm assuming you're White) would not care if after a performance of a song such as this from another "racial" perspective, someone of Black or other non-White racial origin told you they were offended by the use of that word in a first-person song? That you'd just wave it aside and go on singing the song in concert halls or wherever without caring, even if others made the same objection? I don't know about the rock and roll accent, but I think it's a combination of Southern Black and White American influence.
*Waiting for Azizi to give her perspective on this issue*

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 07:27 AM

In my post above I am not referring to actors(the profession), but to "acting something out", as we often do to highlight or explain something. I agree, good actors do indeed empathise with the character they play, it is part of what they do. The rest of us, most of us simply act something out superficially tomake a point, it's a means to an end.

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 07:24 AM

What is the racial origin of the standard rock and roll accent? e.g. Bono doesn't sing in his natural middle class Dublin accent and Mick Jagger... well he sings in one accent and speaks in another

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 07:19 AM

Reply to Don Wise's post- Don, do you mean "Rocking The Cradle?" I checked the "I Wish I Was Single Again" threads and can't see any link in theme between this song and those. George, I don't know what you are trying to say about actors- at least the good ones I've seen in stage productions, TV shows, and movies, can empathise with a character well enough to make you believe they are that person.

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 07:08 AM

Er... ?

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 07:07 AM

Political correctness gone mad.

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 07:02 AM

I confess that I see no problem. I wrote, and perform, "Thieves of Innocence" in the first person, supposedly as an African child soldier. I find that being a middle-aged caucasian Greek poses no obstacle, as I feel strongly enough about the subject that I can associate and empathise with it. Heck, as far as I am concerned I am an African child soldier. I even know what I look like - the scared Congolese 10-year old that I once saw being interviewed (which led me to write the song in the first place).

I thing the key is one's ability to empathise. Not simulate, not pretend, not dress-up-as, not act. Empathy is the answer.

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 06:40 AM

For added "something", pair up "Jean and Dinah" with "Fan Me Soldier Man" and "House of the Rising Sun" or "Marianne". DonWise, I suppose you mean the anti-American sentiment of the song. I'd say pretty much the same thing that you said.

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 06:28 AM

Matt's post raises another interesting point. "Jean and Dinah", another song with similar themes, is also one of my favourites- the melody as well as the words. I happen to like singing it as well and I feel that when I sing it, it takes on a whole new meaning, emphasising the context. "Jean and Dinah, Rosita and Clementina, round the corner posing, bet your life it's somethin' they sellin. "

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: GUEST,Don Wise
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 06:24 AM

@MorwenEdelwhen 1:
surely it also depends upon what your 'take' on what is obviously a mans' song is, and on how you 'sell' it to your audience. Looking at the text it's a case of "I wish I was Single Again" meets "Billie Jean" with a hefty dose of prejudice and discrimination thrown in for good measure. On the surface, it's a 'black/white' story, but underneath it's representative for a world-wide problem. Whether Asian,native Australian, native American,jewish,moslem, christian etc. etc.,the basic story is the same, whether we're talking about the Caribbean, Australasia, Europe or wherever. The story/problem is well known in western Europe where immigrants with very conservative, almost tribal, backgrounds from Turkey and the arab countries are faced with modern, permissive, western society. However, the outcome over here is often much more serious- if she's lucky, the woman suffers serious GBH and is thrown out of the family/tribe, the worst case is a so-called 'honour murder'.(I will never understand why male/family honour depends so much upon the virginity of the daughters...)If the woman survives the GBH and the family rejection, she still has to face the possible/probable rejection by the lover and/or his family. If I were to sing a song like this then, irrespective of its origins, I would plug it as the best song I'd come across which illustrated the problems of discrimination and prejudice ( and male attitudes?) on a communal level. Otherwise- see SharonA.

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 10:45 AM

Thanks, SharonA!

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: SharonA
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 10:39 AM

MorwenEdhelwen1, I admire your tenacity with respect to your attempts to keep this thread conversation on topic! However, I'm sure you've noticed that Mudcatters are fond of "thread drift" and of working multiple sub-topics into a thread, just as people would do in a face-to-face conversation, so please don't be disgruntled when folks take the conversation in new directions!

With that said, let's get back to your topic. Your original questions (in your first post) were: "Has anyone ever sung a song in first person where the narrator was of a different race? How did you handle it?" Since then, you've made it clear that you are concerned specifically with discomfort when singing lyrics that are denigrating to people of a different race, and with the possibility of giving offense to those people as you are singing these lyrics.

So, how do you handle it? Well, my answer, as an American of Western European Descent, or European-American, or Anglo-American, or Caucasian, or any term but "white" (which I think is just as divisive and objectifying a term as "high yeller" in identifying one's race by referring to the color of one's skin), is: It all depends on the venue in which you are singing the song.

Here's an anecdote, as an example...

The local folk song society of which I am a member (and current President) is located in a part of suburban Philadelphia, Pennsylvania that is semi-rural -- you have to drive past the farms to get to the McMansions, and vice versa -- and we have monthly meetings that often include a song circle where each person sings one song based (however loosely) on the theme of the month. Usually it is a song that that person has chosen beforehand and rehearsed. Virtually all of the members, with few exceptions, are Americans of European Descent (some Jewish, some Protestant, a Quaker or two, etc.). We feel comfortable singing songs in which the narrator is of a different race or gender or religious orientation, and we have some members who sing sea chanties, etc., that include offensive references to people of a different race or gender. We all understand that we would never walk up to someone on the street and say such offensive words to that person but, in the meetings, we create a "safe" environment in which we can keep traditional songs from being forgotten forever by singing them as they were written. Nobody from that group would think of going to North Philadelphia or West Philadelphia and announce that they were about to play "Coonie in the Holler" while busking on the street -- it would be a good way to get yourself beaten up or shot, because those places are not safe environments in which to say anything with "coon" in it, whether it's about a raccoon or not. (Segue: On the other hand, "Oh dem golden slippers" is the unofficial theme song of the Mummers bands who parade through "bad" sections of Philly every New Year's Day, and audiences of all races cheer them on loudly when the song is played.)

One month, a couple of our folk song society members brought a guest to the meeting who is of African descent (African-American, I think, though he may have been a citizen of another country). He had been visiting this couple, and he was at the meeting specifically to hear the song they would sing in the circle. While the circle was in progress, another member sang what is commonly called a "coon song" (this one was about how a woman's dancing on stage was exciting to men). Let me emphasize that the woman chose this song several days before the meeting and had rehearsed it (and I should mention that she is Jewish), so she wasn't singing it with the intention of offending our guest... and I'm sure she never thought there might be a "person of color" at the meeting when she chose the song! Our guest never said a word or even looked angry or upset; he just listened politely, as everyone else did. I think he understood that when one goes to a folk song society meeting, one is going to hear folk songs, and I think he understood that the lyrics of any folk song sung at such a meeting do not automatically reflect the sentiments of the singer.

The Planning Committee of the club did receive one email of complaint afterward, from an elderly man who said he was horrified, but no one else thought the situation was that terrible. Still, we had a long conversation about which was more offensive, authentic lyrics or censorship, and this resulted in an article we put in the club's newsletter about using "good taste" when choosing songs for the circle. Here is an excerpt of that article:

"[Name of the Society] as an organization, and the Society's Planning Committee, decidedly do not want to censor anybody, and we will not tell people what they can and cannot sing. Still, we are a family-friendly group, and we want to make people of all ages and backgrounds feel welcome in our community. So, in general, it is wise to refrain from sharing songs that are overtly sexual in nature, or that denigrate any particular social classifications of people. Of course, we all enjoy a little innuendo, and we all like satire, which is bound to insult somebody. So, it requires some consideration to decide what is 'in bounds' and what is not, and sometimes we will disagree among ourselves about levels of offensiveness. Please use good judgment and at least make certain that YOU think your song is appropriate.

"Despite all these suggestions, if you, personally, are offended by someone else's song, please draw that individual aside after the meeting and discuss the song with him/her one-on-one. We trust that each person in such a discussion will be respectful of the opinion of the other.

"The Circle is a fabulous time of sharing and enjoying an astounding variety of music. Each Circle is a unique experience that enlivens our meeting, and keeps us coming back time after time. Let's all nurture it as best we can. Thanks."

Personally, I felt that such a capitulation made our "safe" environment a little less safe a place to sing the folk song of one's choice. I would have preferred that we simply ask people to preface their chosen song with a comment such as: "This song has a lyric you might find offensive, but the lyric is authentic to the song and to the time in which it was written." This could be followed by a thank-goodness-those-times-have-changed sort of disclaimer, if necessary. That, to answer your question, is how I would handle it.

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 10:38 AM

No, you're not wrong about that. I agree with you on the audience thing. I just wasn't sure *which* audience, if you meant immigrants or not,or if you meant it in a general sense. Thanks for the clarification that you meant people in a calypso tent or concert hall. I would think at least a significant percentage of people of a single nationality in a single room would be old enough to understand deeply- some even *remember* what the song is talking about, as well as hearing the word "Negro", and in the case of Black Trinidadians, using it to describe themselves. This is not saying that it believe intent is all that matters, or that you can't hurt people if you have good intentions. Just that I believe a lot of people, on hearing those words, would understand what it was referring to and in what context the word was being used. I would probably still use an introduction though.

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 10:16 AM

Sure. But, according to Wikipedia, some 77% are, with only 0.3% of Trinidad's population being ethnically European. When I said 'audience', I meant the people in the same room as you listening to you sing. Am I wrong in assuming that the calypsonians you're hoping to learn from/sing with are black (or mixed race black)?

"Negro" has become, thankfully, an archaism. But while it's not quite as shattering a word as "nigger", it's pretty damn close, whether speaking etymologically, historically or practically. I singled out that line because I think that some words are just so highly charged that I can't think of any good reason any non-black person ought to use them in any circumstance other than reluctant quotation. It goes beyond context or intent of the person using that word (And, while a song is "quotation", it's not "reluctant", it's enthusiastically entered into.)

Of course, art isn't about "good reasons", and there always remains a place for a strategic, sensitive, informed breaking of taboos... Play it by ear.

As I said, I'd sing it if I were you.

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 09:46 AM

BTW Matt, not trying to imply anything, but not all Trinidadians are Black. And I would assume that the audience (if you mean Trinidadians living there and not overseas) would understand what I was trying to do- unlike the popular version of "Rum and Coca-Cola", this is not sanitised. Also FWIW, I would love to sing this as is and still make it my own, and also although the girl is Trinidadian, the situation is basically the same as the one behind the plot of "Miss Saigon" and in a way it is about the actions of American soldiers in a lot of foreign countries during WWII and earlier and later conflicts.

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 09:17 AM

I'd change the lyrics- I *am* an aspiring calypsonian.

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: matt milton
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 09:12 AM

Well, I think it helps that you're female. Those words coming from the mouth of a *woman* put much more of a contextual spin on the song (irrespective of skin colour). Because it draws attention to the fact that the real victim of the song is the girl, not the guy. It's also - like a lot of Caribbean songs of that time - got a lot to say about American military interests, and colonialisation and money and, depending on your perspective, rape.

I'd sing it as it is if I were you. How do you feel about potentially singing the words "the baby don't belong to the Negro race" to an audience of Trinidadians though? (I'm not stirring, just rasing it as a potentially uncomfortable moment)

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 08:58 AM

And the point of the song is that there's no way the baby is his.

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 08:49 AM

Matt, I am not White. I am Chinese- how would you, as a White person sing the lyrics on the 6.15 AM post? I think that singing the chorus "Brown skin girl, stay home and mind baby" is fine for me, to me it's a "valueless colour descriptor"- some Chinese people are naturally brown-skinned- but how would you handle it and the lines quoted, with an explicit reference to the narrator's skin?

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: matt milton
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 08:10 AM

I sing In The Pines, after Leadbelly's "Black Girl". But there's no way I'd sing the lyric as "Black girl, black girl, where'd you sleep last night?"; I sing it as "Little girl, little girl... etc etc. That's a pretty uncomplicated decision, rendered even less problematic by the fact that plenty of bluegrass singers sing "In the Pines" as "little girl" anyway.

As long as racism is a big deal (which it still is), then details about skin colour in songs written by black people are always going to be too poignant and redolant for a white person to sing without sounding crass.

If we lived in a world in which racial distinctions were utterly devoid of any kind of historical/pejorative/hierarchical charge, then it would be different: song references to skin colour would be as arbitrary and banal as a simple descriptive colour term.

But we don't live in that world yet: we live in a world in which people are still stabbed to death because of their race.

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 06:33 AM

BTW, he is discussing why he cannot be the father of this woman's child. In this case, removing the "Negro" reference does not take away anything from the song- it is about a "brown-skin girl" - light-skinned mixed-race girl of Black/White ancestry- who attempts to trap the "Trini" (Trinidadian) calypsonian, who is African-Trinidadian, with her child (conceived with a White American soldier) and the persona is giving her the brush-off because it "ain't belong to me". In other cases, removing the racial references would take something away. The explicit gender doesn't matter to me as this is one that loses something when in third person. However it might to other girls/women.

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 06:15 AM

DonWise, the "baby" is an actual baby- the child that the narrator's girlfriend is forcing on him. I suppose I might try writing a few calypso lyrics when I have the time but FWIW, here's the full song:
Brown Skin Girl
(Lord Invader-covered by the Mighty Terror)

1. What's wrong with you, Miss Ivy, girl?
Why are you trying to trap me with that baby?
What's wrong with you, Miss Ivy, girl?
Why are you trying to trap me with that baby?
We only got friendly in September,
And the baby was born in November.

Girl you can't fool me like that,
Tell me how a monkey can make a cat!
(So we singin' bout)

Cho: Brown skin girl, stay home and mind baby,
Brown skin girl, stay home and mind baby.
I'm going away on a sailing boat,
And if I don't come back
Stay home and mind baby

2. Now this is something that a blind can see,
That the baby ain't belong to me,
You know that I am a fellow with a funny face,
And the baby don't belong to the Negro race.
If she go to America,
She compelled to find the right father.
So girl, don't worry with me,
You can't tie me up with that blue-eyed baby.
(chorus)

3. Yes, Ivy, girl, you made an error,
To be in love with that Yankee feller.
You thought he really come here to live,
It is better you had met a native.
You said they come here for ninety-nine years,
And they leave you with that baby shedding tears,
And now you want me to pay the tax,
Go cut down the tree where you grind your axe.
(Chorus)

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: GUEST,DonWise
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 05:59 AM

To me, the issue is- can I identify with / get into the story being told? If I can, then the origin of the song, racial or otherwise, is secondary. Only if I feel that the dialect is too strong, too 'stagey' for me e.g. 'Freedom Come-all-Ye', 'Little Chance', do I leave the song alone.

One can also take the attitude, "The old guys down the pub never bothered much about the origins- gender, race, nationality- of the songs they sang so why should I? As long as it's a good song, a strong story I can get into, the dialect is not too 'over the top', then why shouldn't I sing it?"

As to adapting the lyrics in terms of rhyme and scan- try writing songs and you'll get the hang of it. For what it's worth (taking the lines as they are given above, totally out of context):-

'You can see that I am a fellow with a funny face
And the (my?) baby won't win any modelling race'

Having a 'funny face' is not, per se, necessarily racial.

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 05:01 AM

A language is different from a song. BTW this song is not in the public domain.

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: GUEST,Muppett
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 04:47 AM

Surely if a song is in the public domain, anyone can sing them, regardless of your Ethnic background, surely it's the same as saying you shouldn't speak French unless you're French !!!!!!!!!!!!1

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 09:23 PM

BTW, again, it has absolutely nothing to do with empathy or dialect- I'm fine singing "Day De Light, "Cudelia Brown", and "Mattie Rag", in dialect, for example,and this particular song has no dialect in it. The problem is with an explicit racial reference to the colour of the singer's skin. If I were performing it in public, I'd have a problem with singing the quoted lines as they were written. In contrast, the narrator of "Jean and Dinah" is never explicitly identified as Black- in the original version he is identified as "Sparrow" i.e. the Mighty Sparrow, who is Black but using himself to represent Trinidadian men who now have a chance with the women as the prices have dropped- but the only reference to his background is as "West Indian"- a national reference instead of a racial one.

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Jul 11 - 10:36 PM

Hey, just about all the songs I do are ol' country blues songs I learned directly or indirectly from ol' black bluesmen... I never give it any thought... But I feel very much comfy with 'um... It's who I am...

B~

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 11:40 PM

Refresh.

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 21 Jun 11 - 06:32 PM

For clarification, here are the lines from the calypso in question:
"You can see that I am a fellow with a funny face,
And the baby don't belong to the Negro race."

That said, I believe Dave in Michigan's suggestion of adjusting the lyrics to fit myself is the best one on the list. But the problem is how to think of lyrics that scan and rhyme?

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: Amos
Date: 21 Jun 11 - 11:31 AM

I have sung many songs that could be called "darky" songs, and it does not bother me at all to do so--I sing songs of Irish rebellion although ! never rattled a pike; I do not like fishing, but I sing songs of fishing; I have ridden horses and rounded up cattle, once, but never made a living at it, but I do not mind singing cowboy tunes--I enjoy them heartily. I have never been pregnant but have no reservation about singing "Careless Love".

It strikes me that the performance of a song must be done largely on its own terms, its own merits, and if you have insufficient empathy to do that, you should probably stick to your own ethnic niche. Unfortunately, this would limit me to Grace Kelley and Pat Boone top-of-the-charts, a total of about four songs.

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: GUEST,Long Lankin
Date: 21 Jun 11 - 08:14 AM

Getting back to the original question - if you are not comfortable singing a song because of its sentiment, language etc then don't do it.

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 21 Jun 11 - 05:39 AM

Can we get back to the original topic, please?

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 21 Jun 11 - 04:02 AM

At some point, someone suggested that this was an anti-English song, and everyone else went home to bed.

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 Jun 11 - 03:40 AM

I haven't quite worked out why this thread has become one exclusively dedicated to discussion of one song, A Parcel Of Rogues In A Nation; nor, for that matter, what this song has to do specifically with the topic of the thread.

Can anyone enlighten me as to the reason for this drift and the connection, please?

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 21 Jun 11 - 03:29 AM

"-- it seems pretty unambiguously to refer to England."

But only up to the third line. The fourth line unambiguously refers to the relevant Commissioners to the Scottish Parliament.

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 11:17 PM

Refresh.

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: Joe_F
Date: 13 Jun 11 - 08:53 PM

Allan Conn: The comment on the text in the DigiTrad agrees with you. However, in the context of the first stanza at least --

Now Sark runs to the Solway sands
And Tweed runs to the ocean
To mark where England's province stands
Such a parcel o' rogues in a nation

-- it seems pretty unambiguously to refer to England.

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: Allan Conn
Date: 13 Jun 11 - 04:26 AM

" how would that be significantly different?"

Aye that is a good point right enough :-)

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: Allan Conn
Date: 13 Jun 11 - 04:25 AM

"McGrath: "Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!"?"

I always took the term 'parcel of rogues' as actually referring to the Scots who were bought and sold - rather than the English themselves.

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 12 Jun 11 - 06:09 PM

"Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!"?

When I sing it, I dedicate it to politicians everywhere.

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: Joe_F
Date: 12 Jun 11 - 05:55 PM

McGrath: "Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!"?

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Jun 11 - 02:02 PM

So the song becomes one about a client of a prostitute instead - how would that be significantly different? It seems more likely that the change was made for other reasons, such as those discussed in this thread.

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 11 Jun 11 - 07:11 PM

"It never bothered me till The Animals recorded it and changed the sex of the narrator to male"

I don't think the Animals changed it out of choice. I'm sure I remember it was because their record company (or someone of influence anyway) thought it would be not played or even banned because of the words being about a prostitute!

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 11 Jun 11 - 06:02 PM

Well, PHJim, I sing songs in dialect. I love dialect, especially Caribbean, so I like to sing "Day-O" (also known as "The Banana Boat Song", "The Banana Loaders' Song", "Day Dah Light" and "Day De Light") in its traditional version, which uses a lot of Jamaican patois. I was singing it last night (it's June 12 here in Australia) and my brother asked me what "Mi come yah fi wuk, mi no come yah fi idle" meant.
(It's Jamaican patois for "I come here to work, not to laze around".)

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: GUEST,Doug Saum
Date: 11 Jun 11 - 02:39 PM

Another race? Beside human? DS

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: PHJim
Date: 11 Jun 11 - 01:38 PM

The first song I can recall singing in a female voice was House Of The Rising Sun. It never bothered me till The Animals recorded it and changed the sex of the narrator to male. Not only did the song lose a lot of its meaning, but people who knew the song from The Animals would ask me,"Why did you change it to a woman's song?"
While I am not uncomfortable singing in character, I don't sing songs in dialect, because I don't feel comfortable doing them.
I don't feel bad about singing murder ballads in the voice of the murderer. I'm playing a part.

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Jun 11 - 03:41 AM

Will Fly, that;'s a good idea- but how would you do something like that with a song like that version of "Brown Skin Girl"? It would be a bit difficult.

No problem. Either I wouldn't sing it in public, or I would change the words from (for example) "I" to "He", as in:

"He got a gang of brownskin women,
He got a bunch of high yellers too..." etc.

It's the same, hoary old argument about what's appropriate/inappropriate for a person to sing. In the end, we all sing what moves us because we love it, and the devil take the hindmost. I don't often indulge in pretending to be a poor black sharecropper who's just been released from the Farm - any more than I often pretend to be a tarry-headed sailor hauling on a capstan. I prefer to sing mainly light fluff from the 1920s and 1930s, though I can be induced to perform Jimmie Rodger's "Waiting For A Train" if someone thrusts a tenor guitar into my hand.

Anyway, must go now - I have to give my toteloader to who I please...

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jun 11 - 06:44 PM

a trad Scottish song expressing centuries-old hatred for the English

None come to mind, and the same goes for Ireland. Being against occupation and suchlike isn't the same as hating people of another nation.

As Percy French put it "When we've got all we want, we're as quiet as can be".

Subject: RE: Singing a song in first person- racial issue
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 10 Jun 11 - 06:11 PM

OK, have just thought of something that *might* work: A verse beginning:
"There's a calypsonian from Port-of-Spain
And Lord Invader is his name".

Comments? Haven't made up the rest yet.