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Where have the audiences gone?
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: Mr Happy Date: 11 Aug 08 - 07:46 AM ............wot's an &th row? |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: Alan Day Date: 11 Aug 08 - 05:42 AM After you with the rope Snail. Al |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: TheSnail Date: 11 Aug 08 - 05:02 AM Well now we know where the audiences went. They were all driven away by guitarists boring on about chord sequences. |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 11 Aug 08 - 04:58 AM "Who uses major 7ths? Neither you nor I But clever dick guitarists Always seem to try." Well if you read my thread (gawd, now he's doin' it too!) I explain that for 'folk music', you can 'fake it' on the Piano Accordion by not having a &th row - you can just play the normal (usually Vth) chord, i.e. a G Maj chord for the C V7 one (which is actually G7). I also point out that if the 7th is really important or necessary, then somebody is probably playing it in the melody anyway! Actually, getting back to the the title of this thread, perhaps this is why the audience has gone home.... :-P :-) |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 11 Aug 08 - 12:39 AM When I was collecting folklore from the Todger family of Glossop in Derbyshire. They passed on to me the following:- Red sky in the morning I give 'ee fair warning Some buggers on Using 6251 Him what uses fourths in a cycle Will make a sound thats somewhat faecal or as Christina Rosetti put it Who uses major 7ths? Neither you nor I But clever dick guitarists Always seem to try. |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 10 Aug 08 - 09:05 PM "even in a perpetual Foster's fog" You insult a Queenslander sir! Only 'cockaroaches' guzzle that Fosters Spew! Real Queenslanders have always drunk (and I use the word advisedly to excess!) XXXX !!!! See the misunderstanding of foreigners inherent in the system! Even Aussies from other states get it wrong! Here in Queensland, we are sick and tired of being sick and tired of having our local culture obliterated by goddam Southerners who do not appreciate us! |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 10 Aug 08 - 08:59 PM "a 6-2-5-1 progression, in the key of C would feature Am-Dm-G7-C." Nope, that would be a 'modulation progression' out of the 'Key of C Major' .... :-P It may well be 'common practice' in 'folk music', but it also demonstrates the difference in 'musical theories'.... :-P "I'll clip you with me wobble board" Try that and I'll play me Piano Accordion at ya - or me Bodhran and spoons.... :-P |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: M.Ted Date: 10 Aug 08 - 08:42 PM My point is that c chord progression that moves from A major to D major, then from G major to C major is in two different keys, and that a 6-2-5-1 progression, in the key of C would feature Am-Dm-G7-C. If you think I am being nitpicky, play the two progression--even in a perpetual Foster's fog, you should be able to tell the difference. And don't ever use that "Folk Music pseudo Music Theory" again, or I'll clip you with me wobble board. |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: Peace Date: 10 Aug 08 - 08:20 PM Only once in the water with sharks. New York is a tough town. New York |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: Richard Bridge Date: 10 Aug 08 - 08:15 PM Al probably prefers sittig on the dock of the bay... |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: Don Firth Date: 10 Aug 08 - 08:12 PM Depends on whether you want to drive onto the ferry or if you don't mind driving off the end of the dock. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 10 Aug 08 - 07:49 PM 'Of course I'm only using "Classical Music Theory" not "make it up as you go along Folk Music pseudo Music Theory"... :-P' So there's a choice....? |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: Peace Date: 10 Aug 08 - 07:19 PM He's right. |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 10 Aug 08 - 07:00 PM Que? "circle of fourths progression, starting out in the key of D, and ending up in C" D Maj G Maj C Maj F Maj "6 2 5 1 in D Maj" B Maj E Maj A Maj D Maj If you start bringing in 7ths and Minors, this aint either just a 'circle of fourths' or just a '6251'... Of course I'm only using "Classical Music Theory" not "make it up as you go along Folk Music pseudo Music Theory"... :-P |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: Don Firth Date: 10 Aug 08 - 06:39 PM Now, don't get me started! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 10 Aug 08 - 03:22 PM The Mets and Phillies had better seasons then the Opera and Orchestra did. |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: Peace Date: 10 Aug 08 - 03:20 PM That was pretty good. |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: Jim Carroll Date: 10 Aug 08 - 02:59 PM Metropolitan Opera and The Royal Philharmonic Orchestra maybe? Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: Jim Carroll Date: 10 Aug 08 - 02:58 PM Who are the Mets and the Phillies? Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: Peace Date: 10 Aug 08 - 02:48 PM LOL Clubs everywhere have hit hard times. It's expensive to drink in a club ($5 a beer? Makes me want to save my urine for times I'm broke) and it's not much fun singing for a room filled with drunks. Thinks have got much more expensive than they ever were, and salaries/wages haven't kept pace, so disposible income is short. Makes it tough for those who wish to follow live music but just don't have the bucks to do so. |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 10 Aug 08 - 02:44 PM That's it Peace - you are banned!!!! :) |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: Peace Date: 10 Aug 08 - 02:39 PM Mets overtake the Phillies? Pass it over here, buddy . . . . |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 10 Aug 08 - 02:35 PM I'm sorry for my short fuse as well. I have tremendous respect for the work you have done and your passion for perpetuating the music is evident. I could have rephrased my comment, but to be blunt, I was very pissed. I don't think you realize how it looks to the rest of us and what a distraction it has been to THIS conversation. I agree, your comments deserve to be discussed. It would not be proper if I were to enter into a discussion of English folk music and started a conversation about the Mets chances of overtaking the Phillies this season. Again, I apologize for my short fuse. As you say, it happens - and we all move on. Now, about our relief pitching.... |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 10 Aug 08 - 02:33 PM we caught one filthy devil last week usig a cycle of fourths, we shouted, 'OI! You can cut that out! Put the melodeon down! Lie down and grab some floor!' Its a man's life in the folk police! |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 10 Aug 08 - 02:23 PM Also what you fail to realise Ron, much of this so called 'healthy and exciting' music has a 6251 change in it, AND it features songs all about the writer's actual lives. Its a well known fact, the only good writer of folksongs is a dead 'un, that we've never heard of. |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: Peace Date: 10 Aug 08 - 02:18 PM Jim , this is Ron. He's a good guy. Ron, this is Jim. He's a good guy. |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: Jim Carroll Date: 10 Aug 08 - 02:16 PM Ron "a couple of Brits who have nothing better to do than argue" Perhaps you might have worded this better - don't you think? I do have respect for you - and anybody else who shares my interest in folk music and is prepared to discuss it. I don't get annoyed when people don't agree with me - I'm well used to that by now - read my postings. I do get pissed off when I am told what I am thinking; and what is relevant and otherwise to the topic in hand - both have happened on this thread.... Sorry for the short fuse - it happens sometimes. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 10 Aug 08 - 01:42 PM Also, based on what I am seeing from this vantage point - admittedly one that is not close to the scene, I do see a lot of healthy and exciting music coming out of the UK. Somebody is doing something right. |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 10 Aug 08 - 01:41 PM Jim - I accept and respect that you have a different opinion about a subject that is only fractionally relevant to this thread, however when you make a sarcastic statment that your "cousins" on this side of the Atlantic have all the answers, then you are not offering me the same courtesy you are expecting to be shown. There should be no double standard. |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: Jim Carroll Date: 10 Aug 08 - 01:39 PM Ron, When people have an opinion on a subject they tend to be able to express them - that's how it works over here. I believe that the state of the clubs rests entirely on what is performed in the clubs and how it is performed - you are quite free to disagree - as I said, that's ....... oh never mind. However, Bryan (and his pet parrot) assures me that everything in the garden is fine; I suppose that means it wasn't a very good question to start with. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 10 Aug 08 - 12:07 PM "After all, why do we bothr when our Tranatlantic cousins have all the answers?" We aren't the ones claiming to have the answers. We aren't the ones who get huffy and defensive when somone has a different idea to share. We are the ones that get shot down whenever we disagree with your set in stone definitions. We are the ones whose conversations become dominated by drifts that have nothing to do with the subject we attempted to discuss. We are the ones who know that there is a time and place for discussions and we are the ones who try to be respectful of others. |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: Jim Carroll Date: 10 Aug 08 - 11:46 AM Perhaps I'll just leave it there - "couple of Brits who have nothing better to do" After all, why do we bothr when our Tranatlantic cousins have all the answers? Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: TheSnail Date: 10 Aug 08 - 07:06 AM Don't just take my word for it Jim. Come and see for yourself instead of relying on travellers' tales and what you read in the folk press. You might just be pleasantly surprised. |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: Jim Carroll Date: 10 Aug 08 - 03:04 AM My apologies Bryan, I can see I was wrong - there is nothing with th club scene and its healthy enough to carry on for another millennium. The answer to the question is obviously 'nowhere'. I'm off - "Check mate" My mother told me never to argue with a man with a parrot on his shoulder Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: gnu Date: 09 Aug 08 - 02:46 PM Sorry.... I know this is not quite right, but... A couple of weeks ago, at my cousin's 40th birthday bash, at an "Irish" bar downtown, I enjoyed an old buddy's music... hadn't seen him for near ten years... it was a great evening with him playing... and my cousins playing... and... But, when I arrived, I order a beer for me and a G for my nephew. The waitress stood waiting after I gave her a tenspot. Me too... I was awaiting change, not realizing that I owed her MORE money!!! Two glasses of beer and my ten was shy? Well, this audience is back home to stay. $5 fer a beer? Not fookin likely when I can play my own tunes in the kitchen. |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 09 Aug 08 - 02:32 PM Ian - you are right, I did not mean to generalize. It is only a handful of people that are running around on Mudcat saying the sky is falling. |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: GUEST Date: 09 Aug 08 - 02:29 PM 6251 squared. take away the number you first thought of.....
Thanks. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: GUEST,Ian Fyvie Date: 09 Aug 08 - 02:19 PM Golden Rule: Don't generalise! I don't actually recognise the scenario debated here in relation to our city. Folk Clubs are thriving - here's what's happened in the last 15 months: Spring 2007 - new Club starts in 'away from city centre' pub. It continues successfully despite recessions, smoking bans and a short notice enforced break during this April. Another club (twice weekly) was having problems in its two different venues. !5 months ago it found a single pub for both nights and people now travel for many miles away to sing there. |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 09 Aug 08 - 02:08 PM What a bunch of silly altercockers. Why don't you take this outside to the schoolyard and let the rest of us get back to discussing the subject. Why does every post need to be ruined by a couple of Brits who have nothing better to do then argue about the definition of "folk music". Leave the rest of us who understand the differences and aren't hung up on semantics get back to really helping each other instead of this constant bickering that seems to get your rocks off. Enough!! This thread was not about your precious clubs, it was about audiences!! If you can't read the writing on the wall that your anal-attentive postings are turning off audience, then god help you. The rest of us have learned by your example and now it is time to get back to work. Enough already!!!! |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: The Sandman Date: 09 Aug 08 - 01:46 PM check mate. |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: TheSnail Date: 09 Aug 08 - 08:43 AM Jim Carroll "No you didn't. You joined it to find evidence to prove your case." On what do you base this? Your posts. |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: GUEST Date: 09 Aug 08 - 08:10 AM Just as you have chosen to ignore all the other sources of information I have given for my opinions on the state of the clubs. I did not ignore the rest of your post - you made a statement - I accepted it - as far as I was concerned, it needed no sesponse.. "No you didn't. You joined it to find evidence to prove your case." On what do you base this? Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: TheSnail Date: 09 Aug 08 - 06:17 AM Jim Carroll Pity this got down to point scoring - thought we were doing quite well It's not point scoring, Jim, its IS the point which you have just neatly illustrated. You ignore all of my post except the one line that (taken out of the context of the whole post) allows you to attack me. You said earlier - I joined this thread in order to find out whether my judgment of the club scene was an accurate one No you didn't. You joined it to find evidence to prove your case. You pick up any tiny fragment that suits you and ignore anything that doesn't. |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 09 Aug 08 - 05:33 AM "otherwise, it is a circle of fourths progression, starting out in the key of D, and ending up in C." Que? |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: GUEST Date: 09 Aug 08 - 03:55 AM Bryan "ou, on the other hand, were told by a friend that a folk club in the north of England once held an evening of Beatles songs and on the basis of this you declare the UK folk scene moribund." Pity this got down to point scoring - thought we were doing quite well Paul "Likely very different in Ireland." Not so different -except they seem to have found a way to keep the music alive Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: Don Firth Date: 09 Aug 08 - 01:24 AM "You can lose an audience pretty fast if you can't keep track of which key you're in." !Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: M.Ted Date: 09 Aug 08 - 12:41 AM Not to put to fine a point on it, but it would have to be Am Dm G7 C--otherwise, it is a circle of fourths progression, starting out in the key of D, and ending up in C. You can lose an audience pretty fast if you can't keep track of which key you're in. |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 08 Aug 08 - 11:05 PM "GUEST, regarding chord progressions, I think its more like: (In C) A D G C" Which would be the fairly standard I IV V I (which is the normal notation) or 1 4 5 1 for those not so trained. This is dead easy on the Stradella Bass of a Piano Accordion - as this is the sort of music progression for which it was designed. |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 08 Aug 08 - 03:11 PM "The drawback to House Concerts is that it is difficult for "new" people to find out about them. Advertising is limited. " There are websites and other ways to promote house concerts. Many of our local house concerts contact me to mention their "shows" on my radio program - but we only announce phone numbers and towns instead of street addresses. There are local laws that can prohibit these gatherings. |
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Subject: RE: Where have the audiences gone? From: Jim Carroll Date: 08 Aug 08 - 02:57 PM "You saw the movie "Airplane" didn't you." Don't call me Shirley. Jim Carroll |
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