another first - F#

Subject: RE: another first - F#
From: Mr Happy
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 10:58 AM

Have there been surveys or are there any statistics to show which key suits most voices?

Subject: RE: another first - F#
From: JohnB
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 10:48 AM

We let our Accordion player give us the first line and opening chord/notes.
We then sing a cappella.
JohnB

Subject: RE: another first - F#
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 10:39 AM

We may have wandered off track.

The F# chord in 'How great my joy' (when played in D) has nothing to do with muddiness or dissonance. It's simply an unusual sound in a very old piece. The tonality is archaic, and so the chord is not the usual.

Our gang enjoys the archaic and unusual.

D is a high key for this song. We play high to accommodate the flutes and to fit an enjoyable alto line under the melody.

Leadfingers, I'm glad you are enjoying the richness of the modern era, where people looked at the keyboard and decided to use all of those notes.

Subject: RE: another first - F#
From: PoppaGator
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 10:35 AM

Isn't C E A D G the time-honored "Circle of Fifths"? That's old enough and common enough for me to consider it an element of "folk" music.

F# also has a place in the key of E. I play the Smokey Robinson classic "Shop Around" in E with four chords: E/E7 and A (alternating, for much of each verse), then an F# to B7 before resolving back to the E.

(The F# comes on the line "My momma told ME." The B7 accopanies "you better" and back to the tonic E for "shop around.")

Subject: RE: another first - F#
From: Leadfingers
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 10:20 PM

I KNOW that C E A D G is not a traditional Folk chord run , but it does appear with MONOTONOUS regularity in what I (Ex Clarinet and Sax Man ) call Standards - Five Foot Two , etc ! So you find C MAJ a bit low ? Dont capo , play it in D , and there you have it !
    D F# B E A .

Subject: RE: another first - F#
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 09:14 PM

Sing Out and most other folk song collections are usually printed in keys for which the guitar chords are easy for most people to play. An F# is simple enough if you can manage bar chords: Full barred F up one fret. Or if you use the abbreviated F chord (top four strings), just move it up one fret. Abracadabra! F#! Other configurations several places on the fingerboard.

Just part of the family. . . .

Re: "discords" in Bach. This is called "dissonance" and it has been a standard part of music since the time of Monteverdi (the first person to write a dominant 7th chord into a composed piece of music). Dissonance requires resolution, so it creates tension; a feeling of "drop the other shoe!" So the final chord resolves the tension and everybody should be happy.

Simple demonstration of dissonance:   G7 to C. G7 contains a dissonant interval between the B and the F. When you play the C chord, the B moves up to C and the F moves down to E. Sigh of relief. Tension resolved.

Basic first year music theory.

Don Firth

Don Firth

Subject: RE: another first - F#
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 08:43 PM

Sure it's unusual. Just to check, I looked at 20 pages of songs in the Sing Out book. Not one F# there.

There isn't even one in the Hard Times & Blues section, although there are a couple of F#m's.

It's not an illogical chord, but it's not a usual chord, either.
======
Will, I agree with you about dense chords which muddy the music. I think the predilection for muddy sounds or pure sounds is inborn, and I was born with a desire for purer harmonies. Not that everything has to sound like 'Jingle Bells', mind you.

As a teenager I went to a Lutheran church where the organists played a Bach piece as a postlude every Sunday. (This is traditional.) All these pieces seemed to thunder to an end with a loud series of discordant blasts.

We kids thought that Mr. Bernstein was simply smashing keys at random to get it all over with. But no, Bach wrote them that way.

Subject: RE: another first - F#
From: G-Force
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 03:10 PM

Nothing unusual about a chord of F# (major or seventh).

Try playing 'Nobody knows you when you're down and out' in D. The second chord will be F# (or F#7).

Subject: RE: another first - F#
From: Will Fly
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 12:04 PM

I was rehearsing some Christmas carols last Saturday, with some friends, in readiness for a pub concert on 23rd. Our accordion playing friend is a lovely man, and a good accordion player but - like organists - uses really dense chord textures which, frankly, muddied the music. Walking back to the car with a (very accomplished) soprano, she commented on how hard it was to sing with the accordion...

Subject: RE: another first - F#
From: Jack Campin
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 11:54 AM

I think the usual reason for this is to get the best possible key for the largest possible number of voices. That's why organists learn to transpose anything into any key. Guitar-friendly keys are not always random-parishioner-friendly. A-flat major and E major are pretty common in old hymnbooks.

I hit that sort of thing all the time when accompanying people in singarounds. It's good practice to learn how to play in C-sharp on an alto flute or E-flat on a greatbass recorder. Sooner or later somebody is going to launch into "Summertime" in one or the other.

Subject: RE: another first - F#
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 11:50 AM

I put quite a lot of things in F# on the guitar (using capos) as i fits my voice and the guitar tunings - but it does result in sme hostility from fiddlers and squeezers who seem to think I am doing it to spite them.

Subject: RE: another first - F#
From: GUEST,giles earle
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 11:43 AM

Perhaps if you thought of the chording in Gb major instead of F# you'd find it simpler? it's then just 'all the black notes' as flats when played on the piano and a very 'warm' sound results, much favoured by the likes of Roger Quilter.

Subject: my first
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 11:09 AM

I have been arranging Christmas music to play with friends. (Our group is growing, and we need more parts.)

One good source for MIDI's is the CyberHymnal. I downloaded 'How Great My Joy,' which I happen to know as 'While By My Sheep.' This seems to be a very old song.

One problem with MIDI's made by organists is that organists seem to need to show everybody that they went to college. They can't just play a tune and include normal chords. No, they have to throw in walking alto parts or discordant notes to show how intellectual they are. Trouble is, notes which sound fine with a big church and a husky instrument sound awful in a small living room on a crisp instrument.

I spend a lot of time identifying and removing such notes.

(Another thing I do is put the song in a guitar-friendly key, such as D,G, Am or Em. In this case, I put the song in D. )

So when 'How great my joy' had A#'s in the bass, I thought they were extraneous notes. Then I spent time at the keyboard and realized that they were legitimate parts of an F# chord. In all my years of sharing music, I have never encountered an F# chord before. F#m, yes. But not F#.

So if you are looking for a new experience or want to amaze your friends, I suggest you download & transpose 'How great my joy' and play an F# chord.