Working on singing

Subject: RE: Working on singing
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 06:06 AM

I should have confessed an interest in this, though I'm sure those who know me are aware of it anyway
I have been involved in singing workshops throughout my singing life and have helped run a couple
I know what works for me - I was wondering how others approached the question
Ireland is experiencing a great renaissance in traditional music at present and there are indications of a revival in interest in singing - I'm trying to get our local movers and shakers to get something happening here in the way of catering for new singers (with a little success) and I don't want to impose my own views on it without finding out what others are doing

I think Dave's "runner" is an interesting analogy - if you just want to run for a bus and don't mind coughing your lungs up for most of your journey, just running might do the trick
The amount of work you need o put into it depends on what you want to get out of it - runners who want to be good at it train, the more they train, the better they become
I can see no reason why that should not be true of singing.

I stopped singing for a long time and experienced the same problems as Guests - when I started up again, I found I'd lost a lot - nothing to do with age, just lack of use
In The Critics Group we were given exercises to find our 'natural' voice ans push the boundaries in order to handle different songs
The range I thought I was losing is now back to where it was when I stopped singing

I was persuaded quite early on that the voice could be regarded as a tool-box rather than an end in itself - learn to use all the tools in the box and you can carve masterpieces
If all you want to do is chop firewood all you have to learn is not to cut off your fingers
Jim

Subject: RE: Working on singing
From: Andy7
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 05:53 AM

My old singing teacher used to recommend singing, and making a variety of other sounds, while moving the whole body around in different ways - balancing on a rocking board, bouncing up and down on a large ball, rolling round on the floor. It seemed to work well.

This was just for practice, of course - not for a performance!

Subject: RE: Working on singing
From: Stanron
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 05:43 AM

Three iceberg tips are pitch, clarity and voice timbre. Below these tips are large submerged areas that will reward further investigation.

Underlying all three is breath control. Poor breath control will make pitch difficult. Long sung notes are all vowels, and you can't produce them properly if you haven't enough air. When you breath can change the meaning of the lyric narrative.

Of the three the one that makes the most difference to me is clarity. If I can't make out the lyrics I fall asleep. Lack of lyric clarity usually comes from poor consonant delivery. The long notes are all vowels. What defines these are the consonants that precede and follow them. Long vowels followed by poor consonant delivery result in meaningless sounds. This can be OK if a listener already knows the lyrics but if not the result may as well be in a foreign language. Not only must end consonants be clear, they must be separate from following start consonants. Take the phrase "your eyes". Nearly every time you hear this in a pop song it sounds like "your rise". It drives me bonkers! All it needs is a little bit of breath reversal, or just stoppage, between the two syllables and the meaning is clear.

A good example, and a fond memory, was Paul Connor, the Manchester, or was it Salford?, poet. He couldn't hold a tune but it didn't matter. His poems and songs were good enough to make melody secondary. His diction was always crystal clear. He used to take the mickey out of himself. I can see him now, a dramatic pose, arm outstretched, palm upwards as if holding a skull, saying " I Am An Ack Tor!" in exaggerated thespian manner. I think he did work as an extra on Coronation Street. He made sure his excellent material never suffered from poor delivery.

For male voices there is the chest voice and the head voice. In an untrained voice they tend to be separated by a 'break'. Either you learn how to bridge between that break or you stay in just one voice or the other. Either way you will have a top comfortable note and all songs will be sung in a key that accommodates that top note.

Voice timbre is something that can be worked on. Think of Nat King Cole. He had a throaty delivery that came across as warm and intimate. Compare that with Ethel Merman. There will be other, different, kinds of voice delivery. You might like to employ different ones for dramatic effect. They certainly are worth investigation.

Subject: RE: Working on singing
From: Johnny J
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 05:02 AM

I'm not necessarily suggesting that singers should be "trained" as such but it does seem that less is expected of them in comparison to instrument players.

Most people would expect to put a bit of effort into learning the basics, at least, relating to the mechanics of the instrument and to practise the tune, piece of music, accompaniment or whetever. Or to have developed the skills to pick up a tune or "join in" instinctively.
Of course,this doesn't necessarily mean formal training either. Many of us are self taught.

Perhaps it's because "singing" is perceived as a very natural thing to do that people seem to have the expectation and sense of entitlement to get up and perform or are encouraged to do so by others more so than instrumentalists?

However, a poor performance by a singer is no less unpleasant for the listener. Of course, I'm not arguing that everyone should be perfect but just trying to illustrate a point.

Subject: RE: Working on singing
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 04:40 AM

I know my voice will never be up to much but I work on my songs, even ones that I have done for years, by singing them. Seems to make sense to me. You train for a run by running. You train for a performance by performing!

The converse seems to underline the point. I have been learning to play accordion for years and while I can squeeze a few tunes out, I am simply not ready to perform them in public due to lack of practise. While I can always find time to sing, sitting with the chest piano every day seems to elude me :-(

Subject: RE: Working on singing
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 04:25 AM

If this develps into anything, I'll be would love to see a discussion on how various people approach working on singing
Jim

Subject: RE: Working on singing
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 04:17 AM

I find my voice is now worse than it was a few years ago. It's definitely not fun to see that happen. And I have no idea about how to train it.

Subject: RE: Working on singing
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 04:13 AM

There's a lot of Truth in that, Jim. I find that when I am enjoying what I sing, my audience usually enjoys it just as much.

Subject: Quote: Working on singing
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 04:06 AM

I wonder if it might be possible to discuss this without the old usual
Jim Carroll

Quote we used in a talk Pat and I gave some years ago at Salford

"3. Now you might say that working and training to develop your voice to sing Nine Maidens A-milking Did Go or Lord Randall is calculated to destroy your original joy in singing, at least that’s the argument that’s put to me from time to time, or has been put to me from time to time by singers who should know better.
The better you can do a thing the more you enjoy it. Anybody who’s ever tried to sing and got up in front of an audience and made a bloody mess of it knows that you’re not enjoying it when you’re making a balls of it, but you are enjoying it when it’s working, when all the things you want to happen are happening. And that can happen without training, sure it can, but it’s hit or miss. If you’re training it can happen more, that’s the difference. It can’t happen every time, not with anybody, although your training can stand you in good stead, it’s something to fall back on, a technique, you know. It’s something that will at least make sure that you’re not absolutely diabolical
The objective, really for the singer is to create a situation where when he starts to sing he’s no longer worried about technique, he’s done all that, and he can give the whole of his or her attention to the song itself she can give her or he can give his whole attention to the sheer act of enjoying the song."
Private interview with MacColl - 1980