BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: GUEST,Elliot Lurie
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 04:20 AM

eanjay, Please don't select certain professions as "elite" or imply one persons job is more important than another's.

I am sick of television programmes about Ambulance Drivers, Firemen, Nurses, Life Guards and soldiers. All are paid positions of employment and come with risks and dangers.Everyone's job is important.

This can also be said for the regiment of the British army, it's a paid job. These guys get the chance to leave their country, receive a good wage, a trade or profession and see a lot more of the world than if they stayed at home. If their so loyal, why come over here, why not stay in their own country ?

Listen, they were paid and when the job is over send them home, end of story, for Christ sake we have been the feeding cup for for too long for every Tom, Dick and Gurkie.

The government says they drew a line in the sand at 1997. ACCEPT IT.

EL
XOX

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 03:52 AM

I'm sure that a lot of people (me included) are pleased that the government are putting the breaks on .... BUT they have got it WRONG here.

What possible moral case exists for saying that a Gurkha discharged in 1996 after 15 years' service is any less entitled to come here than one discharged a year later, after five years in the Army? For some Gurkhas falling outside the cut-off date who are already living in Britain, sometimes in penury, it means the prospect of deportation.

It is extraordinary that the authorities are prepared to deport someone who fought in our Army, yet last week the Court of Appeal ruled that under an EU directive, an Italian who served nine years for robbing a pensioner - and had a string of other convictions - could not be ejected because he did not pose a serious threat to the security of the nation.

Pre-1997 Gurkhas are not able to stay or settle because the Home Office says they cannot demonstrate "close ties" to this country. Even serving Gurkha soldiers are not treated equally. Their children are regarded as foreign students and must pay fees of up to £13,000 a year if they want to attend university. Only when citizenship is granted after a lengthy application period once they leave the Army are their children regarded as home students in the UK.

All of this is particularly galling when you consider the mess the Government has made of our immigration system. Over the past 10 years, it has allowed hundreds of thousands of people who have no claim to settle here to do just that.

That is taken from here.

Let us not confuse different groups of people and lump them all together under one heading!

I just hope that the High Court in London rules in their favour. That would be JUSTICE!

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: GUEST,Elliot Lurie
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 05:52 PM

Penny, I am proud of my heritage and I am also sick sore and tired of our wonderful country going down the pan with an influx of migrant so called workers or illegal immigrants standing with their hand out and receiving the money they beg for.

So many hard working young British couples are struggling to make ends meet, this young generation is our future, these people are born and reared British. I am sorry if some of you are too dammed thick to see it, but these Nepal blokes received a wage for a job they did, end of story. So what about the Asia nurses and cleaners looking after my granny in a care home ? Should we slip them a note telling them that because they wiped asses in the UK they can look forward to a weekly handout courtesy of the British taxpayer when they decide to stop working ?

The government are putting the breaks on and it's jolly well about time.

EL
XOX

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 05:36 PM

So, anyone whose family was not already in Britain when the Beaker people came in is an immigrant and should be aware of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:59 PM

an aside: if you want to be correct,

"Historically, the Britons (sometimes Brythons or British) were the P-Celtic speaking indigenous peoples inhabiting the island of Great Britain south of the river Forth. They were speakers of the Brythonic languages (also called P-Celtic) and shared common cultural traditions. In terms of language and culture, much of north-western Europe was mainly Celtic during this period. The inhabitants of Ireland, the Isle of Man and Dál Riata were Gaels or Gaelic Celts who spoke Goidelic languages.

A number of scholars argue that the unknown Pictish language was Brythonic, but in Sub-Roman Britain the Picts were distinguished as a separate group, as were the Gaels of Dál Riata. Therefore, the term "Briton" traditionally refers to the inhabitants of ancient Britain excluding the Picts, because many Pictish cultural traits (for example their sculpture, pottery and monuments) differ from those of the Britons and because ancient writers clearly distinguish the two peoples."

Anglo-Saxons and Normans need not apply....

However:

"Britain has been intermittently inhabited by members of the Homo genus for hundreds of thousands of years and by Homo sapiens for tens of thousands of years. DNA analysis has shown that modern man arrived in Britain before the last ice age but retreated to Southern Europe when much of Britain was ice covered, with the remainder being tundra. At this time the sea level was around 127m lower than today so that Britain was joined to Ireland and to the continent of Europe.

After the end of the last Ice Age (around 9500 years ago) Ireland became separated from Britain and later (around 6000 BC) Britain was cut off from the rest of Europe. By 12,000 BC Britain had been reoccupied, as shown by archaeology. By around 4000 BC, the island was populated by people with a Neolithic culture.[1] However, none of the pre-Roman inhabitants of Britain have any known surviving written language. No literature of pre-Roman Britain has survived, so its history, culture and way of life are known mainly through archaeological finds. Though the main evidence for the period is archaeological, there is a growing amount of genetic evidence which is still changing. There is also a little amount of linguistic evidence, from river and hill names, which is covered in the articles on Pre-Celtic and Celtic."

"The first distinct culture of the Upper Palaeolithic in Britain is what archaeologists call the Creswellian industry, with leaf-shaped points probably used as arrowheads. It produced more refined flint tools but also made use of bone, antler, shell, amber, animal teeth, and mammoth ivory. These were fashioned into tools but also jewellery and rods of uncertain purpose."

"Beaker pottery appears in England around 2475–2315 cal BC[8] along with flat axes and burial practices of inhumation. With the revised Stonehenge chronology, this is after the Sarsen Circle and trilithons were erected at Stonehenge. Believed to be of Iberian origin, (modern day Spain and Portugal), Beaker techniques brought to Britain the skill of refining metal."
"There was some debate amongst archaeologists as to whether the 'Beaker people' were a race of people who migrated to Britain en masse from the continent, or whether a prestigious Beaker cultural "package" of goods and behaviours (which eventually spread across most of western Europe) diffused to Britain's existing inhabitants through trade across tribal boundaries. Modern thinking tends towards the latter view. Alternatively, a ruling class of Beaker individuals may have made the migration and come to control the native population at some level. Genetics suggests that there was only a small infux of people to Britain at this time, around a few percent."



"There is evidence of a relatively large scale disruption of cultural patterns which some scholars think may indicate an invasion (or at least a migration) into southern Great Britain circa the 12th century BC. This disruption was felt far beyond Britain, even beyond Europe, as most of the great Near Eastern empires collapsed (or experienced severe difficulties) and the Sea Peoples harried the entire Mediterranean basin around this time. Some scholars consider that the Celtic languages arrived in Britain at this time."



So even Celts are newcomers....


By 600 BC, British society changed again. Often termed the "Celtic culture", it had by 500 BC covered most of the British Isles. The Celts were highly skilled craftsmen and produced intricately patterned gold jewellery and weapons in bronze and iron. It is disputed whether Iron Age Britons were "Celts", with numerous academics such as John Collis[9] and Simon James[10] actively opposing the idea of 'Celtic Britain', since the term was only applied at this time to a tribe in Gaul. However, placenames and tribal names from the later part of the period suggest that a Celtic language was spoken, for example the people were said to be "Pretanni". The term "Celtic" continues to be used by linguists to describe the family that includes many of the ancient languages of Western Europe and modern British languages such as Welsh without controversy.[11]



So, who is claiming to be a "native"?

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Penny S.
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:35 PM

I don't know whereabouts in Britain Mr Lurie resides, but I am thankful that I have not met any one I know to share his views. My parents brought me up to be proud of our long inheritance of Britishness, but I also grew up with a sense of the honourable behaviour that that demands.

It is not honourable to use people's lives and then discard them. That goes for our own military, too, but to exclude the Gurkhas in the way that has been done is mean. Meanness may be a part of our national character at certain times and in certain places, but it is not an estimable one, or one to be encouraged.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 03:29 PM

"If you care to read the press today backwardman"

Aaahh, all is explained - it's you again, you gormless piece of shit. No wonder a Billy-No-Mates like you has to spout al, this crap to get someone to notice him. Back to the bog with your wank-mag, little man.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 01:22 PM

Maybe a few of you would like to head out Nepal or whatever corner of the forest they came here from and bang on about human rights, freebies or benefits and see how generous they are to you.

I didn't fight for their country so I wouldn't expect anything. I think you are confusing the scroungers in this country with people who have the RIGHT (IMO) to British citizenship.

Also, the government will turn whenever it suits it and you and I won't be considered!

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: GUEST,Elliot Lurie
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 01:14 PM

Maybe a few of you would like to head out Nepal or whatever corner of the forest they came here from and bang on about human rights, freebies or benefits and see how generous they are to you.

Thankfully the days of "Soft Touch Britain" are coming to an end.

Please drop the subject because the government and people like myself are not for turning.

EL
XOX

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 01:12 PM

That poem reminded me of this.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 01:06 PM

TOMMY
by Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936)



I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 12:57 PM

I suspect that it is a direct result of having a government in which NO member has EVER served in ANY of our Armed Forces...

The above is taken from the Have your say section on this page. Is that correct? It had never crossed my mind to consider that.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: eddie1
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 12:52 PM

I have no wish to give this, I feel, ignorant character the recognition of a reply so I will address this post to everyone else.
To repeat and perhaps clarify what I said in my original posting of 28 June, the group we are talking about are members of the Brigade of Gurkhas who retired prior to 1st July 1997 when the Brigade HQ moved from Hong Kong to England. Those who retired after that date DO have the right to British Citizenship, the right to remain in this country and full benefit and pension rights. This was agreed by the Government last year so whatever thingy and his MP are talking about escapes me.
Those who retired prior to 1st July 97 can apply to stay in this country but each case is treated individually. The motion passed by Reading Borough Council in June referred specifically to this group and pressed the Government to grant this group – one growing ever smaller – the same rights as those who retired after 1st July 97.
Many others have written of the reasons why we owe them. I don't need to repeat them.
Can I say that the one opinion expressed here, differing from everyone else doesn't make me angry. Just kind of sick!

Eddie

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 12:40 PM

EL

"Our government has to take a stand"

Oh really ...

... against the Ghurkas ...



what a courageous stand that would be eh?


I stand in awe of your delegated bravery ...


BTW

Just to clarify the crux of my view,

The Ghurkas sacrificed and achieved more in the name of my liberty than you could ever remotely pretend to with your jumped up phony nationalism.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: GUEST,Elliot Lurie
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 11:36 AM

Oh my dear Magan I am BRITISH ! so no problems here. I just emailed my MP who agrees they have no right to citizenship and told him of a very successful and well supported petition in favour of these ex soldiers NOT being allowed to remain in the UK. He just replied and has passed the news on.

EL
XOX

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 11:16 AM

I've just checked the petition and there are 29,733 signatures on it. A lot of people have signed since my name was added last night.

I know that a link has already been given earlier in the thread but I thought I would give it again.

PETITION

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 10:57 AM

There is no doubt that Britain as an island will become over populated. We are keeping terrorists in luxury and we're frightened to say anything against them because of their human rights or in case they sue us.

The government has allowed this to happen BUT they want to turn away people who SHOULD be ENTITLED to stay, people who DESERVE to stay. Instead they seem to be intent on TURNING AWAY the BEST and pampering the worst.

It's a disgrace.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Megan L
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 10:28 AM

Ok Elliot tell you what can I have a dozen Gurkhas here please we would quite willingly club together to pay your ticket there in exchange my dear only I dont think that would be fair on their local community.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: GUEST,Elliot Lurie
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 10:23 AM

If you care to read the press today backwardman you will see Britain as an island will become over populated and there are calls for the government to do something about it now. And a plank like yourself wants to add to it with hired Asian soldiers! They were paid, fed and educated. End of story, the gravy train stops the day they leave the regiment.

EL
XOX

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 07:30 AM

The protest culminated with a powerful symbol of their sense of injustice, when they handed back their hard-earned medals to the government.

The above is taken from the link given by Lox. Giving their medals back, what a sad day!

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 07:21 AM

Megan L, thanks for that link; it hadn't been given on this thread before. It does give us the opportunity to give practical help. £240 sponsors a veteran for a whole year but people can give smaller (or larger) amounts of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 07:14 AM

"Why in God's name should these people receive special treatment"

Well, we give special treatment to terrorists and supporters of murderous regimes who sponge off our social system whilst preaching sedition against us, why not give the same special treatment to honourable, brave men who fought and died in order that we might be free.

You're a tit, Elliot.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Megan L
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 05:13 AM

I didn't see a link to this on the thread if its there forgive me. I agree they deserve fair treatment and the petition is something but we can give practical help right now till our governament gets of its backside. Ghurka welfare

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: Teribus
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:59 AM

The British (East India Company) first fought and defeated the Gurkhas in Nthe Nepalese war of 1815. They had such a tough time doing it that the East India Company incorporated them into their private army.

Nepal provides Gurkhas to the armed forces of the UK, India and to the Sultan of Brunei. The deal that the Gurkhas had with the Government of the UK was made with the Government of Nepal. The reason that they were not given the same pensions, etc as the men that they fought alongside in the British armed forces was because the Nepalese Government did not want these men returning home "rich" enough to upset the apple cart back home in Nepal.

My own personal take on it is that they are the best light infantry in the world bar none, having served alongside them in Borneo. Having served the crown they should by right be entitled to British citizenship, with identical pay and pension rights as any other British serviceman. They are contributers to any society or community that they find themselves in and the Crown, the British Government and the British people should be ashamed of the way that these men have been treated.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:46 AM

Also, don't bank on any assurances from this government!

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:33 AM

"The Bravest of the Brave, The Most Generous of the Generous, Never Had a Country More Faithful Friends Than You!" These are the words inscribed on the Gurkha War Memorial in Whitehall.

I have taken the above from the thread that was started in June by Eddie1 - "Bravest of the Brave". I have asked Joe Offer if it is possible to combine these 2 threads.

Elliot Lurie, they are a lot different from some. Their courage, bravery, loyalty and service to this country goes beyond that of many others. They are the one group of people that we do owe something to. We're busy supporting some who have done nothing for this country and criticise and condemn it for no reason at all. You have your opinion but I don't agree with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: GUEST,Elliot Lurie
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:19 AM

Yes,and that is where they will be going back to. Our government has to take a stand. I wrote to my MP regarding this matter and received an assurance that the government will not back down over it. Why in God's name should these people receive special treatment ? They were hired help, no different than a overseas cleaner or a nurse. They held a position and received a wage for doing so.

End of story.

EL
XOX

Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:17 AM

Thanks for refreshing this thread; I was looking for it yesterday. I signed the petition last night.

I see another thread has appeared re today's activities and someone was looking for this thread - perhaps they can be amalgamated if a friendly elf is nearby.

I'll pm Joe and ask if the threads can be amalgamated.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: open mike
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:04 AM

the video on you tube explains that they are from Nepal.

Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave
From: open mike
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 03:57 AM

who and where is gurka?

Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 02:56 AM

You! Dyslexic fingers! D'oh.

Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 02:55 AM

Tou forgot the November, Penny! 26th NOVEMBER, 2008.

Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave
From: Penny S.
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 02:29 AM

The petition is open until the 26th.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: Rumncoke
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 09:51 PM

After WWII there were men repatriated to Hong Kong after serving in the British merchant fleet on convoy duties. They had been recruited from various British shipping lines, mostly sailing from Liverpool.

They were, in some cases, married and had children here, but there were no exceptions.

The British government has a long tradition of betrayals - the treatment of former Commonwealth Citisens is similar. Those who moved to Britain, or arrived as children when their parents were invited to come and work in our factories, lost their right to live here if their countries were granted independance.

Anne

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: Sorcha
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 07:34 PM

Somebody needs to start a 'war'. Maybe that Nick Cleg can.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: artbrooks
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 07:16 PM

That is the key difference, Lox - and I'd say that there are rarely exact correspondences between nations.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 07:07 PM

I can see the similarity art, but if I may enquire, I am curious about what could be perceived as a possible key difference:

Did those Filipinos fight solely in WWII in the south pacific or is there a permanent Filipino regiment in the US army?

The Ghurkas have gone everywhere from Afghanistan and Iraq to the Falkland Islands in their 200 year history with the British army.

They don't serve to protect their own homeland but have unqualified allegiance to the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: artbrooks
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 06:57 PM

The USA has its own sad history of poor treatment of colonial soldiers. There were a lot of Filipinos in the US Army during WW-2, and many of them ended up in POW camps. They are eligible for US veterans benefits but, except for the Philippine Scouts and those who were in the "regular" military, Filipino veterans living in the Philippines are paid exactly half of the amount paid to other vets. They have no emigration or citizenship preference.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 06:28 PM

Art,

Thanks - I guessed I had remembered wrong but carried on anyway with my disclaimer to protect me ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 06:22 PM

The Ghurkas, from Nepal, are a regiment within the British Army who have been relied on for their unrivalled bravery and loyalty for more years than need to be accurately specified.

They receive less in pensions than "regular" British Soldiers and do not have right of residency in The UK, just the right to die for the crown.

So sad

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: irishenglish
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 06:08 PM

Yes lox, the codes was one area they were famous for. The other was Ira Hayes, also the subject of a movie.



Beware the trolls

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: artbrooks
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 06:05 PM

As US citizens and soldiers, members of any of the Indian Nations who served in any branch of the US military are entitled to all of the benefits of any non-Indian who served at the same time.

Lox, the most well known group of "Indian Code Talkers" were Navaho...as an Army veteran, my own read on why they are the best known is that they were in the Marine Corps, and everyone knows that every Marine squad has its own PR agent. (BG) There were a number of other nations whose members participated in this program, which basically involved using native languages (which no member of the Axis could understand) to communicate by radio.

For us non-Brits, could someone summarize the Gurkha issue (or provide a link to an unbiased summary)?

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: GUEST,Elliot Lurie
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 06:04 PM

No, they have neither right or reason to remain in the UK. They amount to nothing more than paid migrant workers.

I am sick of hearing we owe a special debt to soldiers. They are not out in the Middle East acting on my behalf. A soldier accepts the terms and conditions that come with the job, this includes being shot at.

We have enough nationalities weighting our little isle down without these Gurkhas adding to it. We are at last seeing the UK government deal with migrant worker numbers, please don't add to it.

XOX
EL

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 06:00 PM

Looks like there's a book here


Sorry folks ... I'm done hijacking ...

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 05:51 PM

BB,


I assume by first nation you mean what I have referred to as Native American.

I knew of the "comanche code" in the pacific during the war against the Japanese, (I think it was Comanche anyway - correct me if it wasn't) and I've seen a programme about a guy who went back to france to see if he could find some diamonds he and his Sioux (I think) friend buried in a forest during WWII. The story and the partnership with the friend (who was killed) clearly meant more to the guy than the diamonds ever could, but they represented proof of an adventure they had shared alone.

I'll try to find a link.

But beyond that my knowledge of the "first Nation" contribution is non existent.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 05:26 PM

eddie 1, Thanks for that link. I've just signed. I'll check tomorrow to make sure my name has been added to the list.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: eddie1
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 05:17 PM

The petition is still on-line here

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Gurkha-soldiers/

Unfortunately only British citizens/residents can sign.

Eddie

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 04:52 PM

Thanks!. I just wish we (the US) did something to acknowledge First Nation contributions , given how we ( the US) have treated them.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 04:16 PM

I see from this thread that you wrote that sonnet. I love it.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 03:56 PM

Agreed, Lox.

But the US has no room to make any comment- Look at the First Nation men who fought for the US in WW II, and how we have treated their peoples.



Sonnet 27/09/04 On the Opening of NMAI CMXXXIII

I listen to the songs of life, as told
By dark-eyed beauties, hair the color of
True wisdom: Quiet words that power hold
To speak of family, work; hopes, tears, and love.
I see the flash of fire in eyes, that tell
Of old injustice, but a smile for all.
What have we done, to past redeem, or spell
Out what we owe for what greed let befall?
I feel the beat of drums: Power to move
Both feet and hearts. What will the future show?
How can this nation honest fairness prove
Unless we make amends for what we know?
We have no reason, now, to debt deny:
How will our conscience to this call reply?