BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: Blackcatter
Date: 27 Aug 04 - 01:21 AM

MG - because I felt like it.

So there.

All the whiners who complain about the flaming just don't get it. That's why I like your posts - you get it and at the same time piss off the idiots. You piss off non-idiots too, but hey, no one's perfect.

And beyond that, I don't give a damn.

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: GUEST,fred miller
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 09:02 PM

i'd say no if I wasn't too lazy to re-set my cookie.

Good article about Don Rickles in the New Yorker not long ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: Leadfingers
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 08:17 PM

NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



If someone posts something you dont like either ignore it or send 'em a PM asking for clarification . DONT clutter the forum with Gratuitous abuse !

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: kendall
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 07:39 PM

The world is full of things that something should be done about.

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: GUEST,GROK
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 06:37 PM

Maybe.

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: Padre
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 04:31 PM

Yes

Padre

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 04:20 PM

Heh! Amusing stuff, as usual.

I vote No. Definitely and absolutely NO. Mudcat Cafe is like real life...unpredictable and full of variety. That's good.

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: Once Famous
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 04:06 PM

Blackcatter, what makes you say that, you hockey puck?

Political in-correctness couldn't have had a better ambassador.

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 03:41 PM

LOL

I got to sort the Music Weekend at Market Rasen out now, so don't think I will be on too much to upset anybody over the weekend. :-)

I genuinly hope all of you mudcatters enjoy you Bank Holiday or weekend. :-)

May the sun shine warmly on all of you.

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 03:20 PM

Maybe if we can stop flaming and abusive behavior we can then try to solve world peace and global warming. I'm hoping we can wrap all this up by the weekend because I have plans.

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: GUEST,Blackcatter at work
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 03:20 PM

Exactly - for instance, I am not bothered by what Martin does or says.

Now don't take this the wrong way, MG - but to me, you're sort of the Don Rickles of the Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: dwditty
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 03:16 PM

Perhaps when the FCC is finished deciding how we should all feel about what Howard Stern says on air, they can come by here and tell us how we should all react to posts by guests, members, trollers, flamers, or people with a simple opinion. The rub is that what person A finds offensive, person B may not...and appointing who should decide is dicey at best. How I feel about someone's behavior doesn't seem very relevant to that person's right to be a jerk (lol). I guess I am just better at ignoring than others. Lucky me!

DW

btw...THIS IS a "no" VOTE.

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 03:11 PM

LMAO :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: Once Famous
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 03:01 PM

I think something should be done about that!

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: GUEST,Blackcatter at work
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 02:57 PM

No.

My vote is with Max

Ironically enough, this has been one of the least flaming BS threads I've visited in quite some time.

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 02:53 PM

Nobody is blaming Max. So stop getting so heated Old Timer.:-)
Of course it is his website :-)

What is important is to stop people flaming and abusing. Have you got any good ideas, because they would be very welcome.

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 02:36 PM

Very good points MoH, and something I would support. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: GUEST,Old timer
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 02:36 PM

Last I heard, mudcat belonged to MAX. Get that???? Not some villan, but MAX. So your poll means nothing. This is up to MAX to decide and if you don't like what he does, go somewhere else.

Me? I'll stay with MAX.

And I won't miss a single one of you that voted Yes.

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 02:27 PM

...can anybody come up with a good suggestion on how members can best protect people who are unfortunately getting abused through no fault of their own

Perhaps a PM of support explaining why you're not launching in to the abuser on an open thread. That would greatly reduce the temptation for them to get sucked in. And it reduces the temptation to get sucked in yourself, which is probably a greater temptation for many people.

People don't actually need protecting so much as solidarity. And as for people who make a habit of abusing others, a boycott is probabaly more effective than a ban, and it doesn't need anyone's permission or approval.

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: GUEST,Larry K
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 01:35 PM

NO- no to censorship

PS- it is a very interesting poll.   There are many people on either side of this issue who never agree with each other on any other topic. (Example- how often do Bobert and Doug R agree?)

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 01:24 PM

I agree with you Wolfgang :-)

What is very evident is that most members who have posted on this thread would like the abuse to stop, but without controls. Thats fine.

I can handle myself and do not get drawn into abusing anybody personally. I also use PM to try and sort a situation out before it gets out of hand. Invariably it is purely a simple misunderstanding. I always believe the good old simple :-) helps so much to show other members that you are not having a go.

However, can anybody come up with a good suggestion on how members can best protect people who are unfortunately getting abused through no fault of their own, as invariably they get sucked into the thread and quite often cannot compete against the proffessional abuser.

It is so sad to see good members leave.

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: s&r
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 12:18 PM

100

No

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: wilco
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 12:12 PM

Yes.

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: The Shambles
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 12:09 PM

As I said earlier, the fact that you were able to start and continue a thread like this proves how open this forum is. If there were Moderators as you suggested, a poll like this would have been deleted immediately.

Ron, there are volunteer moderators here, and reading between the lines a little - what Joe was saying in his post here was, as there are some for and some against - that he will carry on doing exactly what he wants to, which is what they would have done anyway.

I don't think people appreciate the freedom that we have here thanks to people like Joe and Max. They don't have to! They can easily make this as restricted as they like. I thank them for that.

The freedom that Max (the site owner) allows is certainly appreciated very much by me although many obviously do not agree. But he does deserve all of our thanks for creating this forum for us. As for Joe, (a volunteer) I feel that he is doing a pretty good job on his own of eroding that freedom....

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 11:47 AM

LOL. As if you can declare a subject closed and ripe for analysis, here in Mudcat threads! A lot of Catters are not here daily, and before the thread falls off the daily list they may weigh in as well.

All this thread "proves" is that an inflammatory thread title can get a lot of quick action-- sometimes before people have actually thought about the topic!

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 11:44 AM

Villian - even if the numbers were reversed in the poll, that would not have changed anything.   As I said earlier, the fact that you were able to start and continue a thread like this proves how open this forum is. If there were Moderators as you suggested, a poll like this would have been deleted immediately.

I don't think people appreciate the freedom that we have here thanks to people like Joe and Max. They don't have to! They can easily make this as restricted as they like. I thank them for that.

I think some take the mantle of being a "Mudcatter" way too seriously. These posts are meant for fun. If some is really that upset by the postings they read here, they have bigger problems that seriously require help.   

If you don't like someone and leave, that is your choice.   You can't make this an exclusive country club, which is what the censorship would have created. Sure we would like a place to go where everyone gets along, but to create such a place eliminates many freedoms.

In everyday life we run across people who are just as nasty and abusive as the few that cause problems here. We can deal with it in various ways, including running away. We can also consider the source and make ourselves better for it.

Enough of my soapbox. I just had to get it off my chest. I'm glad Mudcat allows me the freedom to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 11:07 AM

Villan,

as Shambles has remarked correctly it depends upon the question asked, so many who share your worries may have voted no nevertheless for a variety of reasons.

Had you asked for a vote for Jon's idea I would have voted 'yes'.
Had someone asked for a vote about BWL's position, I would have voted 'no'.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 10:58 AM

There endeth the Poll. Well done the NO voters. It was democratic, so it is basically leave as is. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 10:53 AM

Don't care.

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: The Shambles
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 10:23 AM

Well, as you can see, there are conflicting opinions. Some people want one thing, and some want the complete opposite.

Hardly a strictly conducted poll and the answer rather depends on the question asked and no, this is not a democracy. However there is little point in the exercise if you are are going to ignore the result and place your own interpretion of what it means.

To date - I make it that the 'some' that answered YES was 5.
                                        the 'some' that answered NO was 37.

Pretty close run thing - I agree......

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 09:55 AM

LOL Make yer mind up guest or you will dissapear up your own backside soon :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 09:49 AM

Perhaps, or perhaps not. Or maybe.

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 08:46 AM

yes, no, don't know, what do you think guest?

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: Sooz
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 08:44 AM

No - I'll continue to be selective in what I read and even more so in what I respond to!

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: Davetnova
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 07:48 AM

no

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 07:39 AM

I think if we remember that Hull Mudcatters mainly follow the rule "tong in cheek"

"Disgusted of Portsmouth" you are welcome to Hull anytime - we will educate you propa like yu no wat I mean

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: fat B****rd
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 07:39 AM

NO

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 07:26 AM

Another thing:

As I said, this is a wild and woolly forum. Some of the wildest stuff can also turn abusive. But there are all sorts of unexpected benefits. Abuse can be ignored by everybody and it will go away. But the situation calls forth, from time to time, absolute gems of humor.

Case in point: the recent thread "Never Mind Hell and Halifax"

Let me quote in full the glorious first posting:



GUEST, Disgusted of Portsmouth
"Never mind hell and Halifax, lord preserve us from the juvenile prurient drivel of the majority of the Hull contingent. I suggest that we start a third section just for residents of the Hull area, then we can all ignore it".

This person has such a flair for the language; the posting is so pithy. I laugh uproariously every time I see it again.

Why would anybody want to rein in a forum where such creativity is possible, or try to suppress the condition which caused this reaction?   Keep in mind this is a Guest.

Mudcat is probably a better source of humor than anything on television or radio, and it's largely because of its untamed nature.

Ignore Hull? I love reading their postings.

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 07:13 AM

I've often wondered whether the compromise situation of having BS member only would be an improvement.

Overall though Guests have not managed to upset me but some members have hurt me very deeply. I broke the number 1 rule round here and even though I was completely honest in everything I said (although I don't think my methods were right on reflection), I got accused of all sorts, the best being a PM sent to Pip by Susan telling her what I was like - Pip could not believe what she had read and was so horrified she showed me.

I choose to post as a guest now not to be underhanded or to cause trouble - I try to be polite and construcive in whatever contributions I still make. Although there remain many people I have great respect for, I simply no longer want to be a Mudcatter as I don't belive in the double standards and 2 facedness that exist with some, probably few but vocal ones, within the ranks.

I didn't stop long at the Yorkshire gathering this year for similar reasons. I'd had a couple of people emailing me asking if I would attend and can't deny that having transported sorcha up there (the only reason for the journey) I did enjoy meeting Micca again, seeing Catsphiddle, etc.. I didn't want to stop there as I felt ultimately at some time my position would have been compromised, perhaps even by someone meaning well, in such a way that my options would have been either to "confess to telling lies" when I had at least had told the truth or stand ground on what I believe in the full knowledge that I would still therefore be considered a trouble maker and an enemy of Mudcat. It was much easier for me to be polite and enjoy the company for 30 minutes and walk out friends with those present.

When I put that sort of thing in the context of considering that plenty of places like uk.music.folk, rec.music.folk, rec.music.celtic and alt.banjo that I visit at least once a day, have no means of moderation yet never get close to the levels of nastiness achieved here, I do think one question that should be asked is whether or not some of the problems here rather than being Guest creations, are Mudcat creations.

Jon

(who will probably get attacked for this post by those who don't believe some things happen and prefer to live in a non-existant cosy land where everything is idyllic)

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 06:46 AM

Oh the pain hurts :-)

My eyes have turned from Claret and Blue to red and white (or sort of bloodshot) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: ard mhacha
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 06:32 AM

Villian, Charlton 3 Aston Villa 0, that result last night really was a no,no.

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 06:21 AM

Jim Dixon's post could have been mine.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 06:11 AM

No.

1) Virtually all abuse happens on BS threads. Guests, believe it or not, sometimes have worthwhile contributions in music threads.

2) Are you talking about Guest Larry K, or just Guest? Larry K should be able to post.

3) There's a very fine line between heated argument and abuse. I suspect the moderators will not want to step into that quagmire, nor do I blame them.

4) We can be, and to a large extent are, self-policing. I never use bad language and my estimation of a person goes down when they do--I believe it shows a poverty of vocabulary, and possibly of intellect. But though I'm against gutter language, this can be addressed by thread participants, and I do so. We're all adults here, some perhaps at arrested states of development, but we can handle this issue ourselves.

5) Anonymous" Guests" (no handle)----- (in my opinion in BS threads should be labelled "Ghosts"--perhaps this could be suggested)----- provide inadvertent humor by arguing with each other.



It's a wild and wooly forum and better for being that way. The old solution is still the best--if you don't want to read a thread, don't. There are lots of threads I never read. If people are leaving the forum, I'm sorry, but I can't believe it's the music threads. Music is the main focus of the forum, but in BS threads, politics, especially this year, will be a focus. Discussions are not always calm. Nobody need ever read a BS thread so nobody need ever be outraged.

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: The Shambles
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 05:48 AM

No

"When these people say NO Censorship, what they really mean is no one is to censor THEM... "

When people say YES to censorship, what they mean is - as long it is done to anyone but THEM...

We all have the only EDIT button that is required and if the Orang Utans are not fed - they will starve and be forced to find other feeding grounds.

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: maggiethecat
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 04:55 AM

Whoops! I'm changing my vote!

I've read all the posts here and now vote "No".

Self censorship is always the best course of action. Maybe it isn't perfect and there will always be those who will test our resolve, but that's also a good test of character.

-maggie

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: Gervase
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 04:43 AM

No.
Most of the stuff that really gets on my chimes is posted by members, while guests often post useful stuff or questions that bring up some excellent answers and research.

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: OldPossum
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 03:57 AM

No. I agree with Deckman.

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: Alaska Mike
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 03:10 AM

No

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: JennyO
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 02:42 AM

And a resounding NO for me too, for many reasons which I do not have time to go into here. Actually, my blood ran cold at the thought of some of those suggestions, and I could see us going down that slippery slope that Shambles talks about.

Joe Offer is right. We need to moderate ourselves, and for those of us who really can't, there is always the delete button. Mudcat has gone through bad periods like this before and recovered and it will again, but to implement those changes would take the heart out of it and it wouldn't be Mudcat any more.

Again - NO NO NO

Subject: RE: BS: Poll - Stop Flaming and Abusive posting
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 02:00 AM

No