BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: Amos
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 12:32 AM

Geeze, old Guy --

The theft in Florida 4 years back strikes me as pretty much old battles.

I am sorry to tell you this but your candidate Bush is a dyed-in-the-wool liar, and a coward who never faced enemy fire. His statesmanship and management have made a mess. Anyone who cost this nation as much as he has from outside the WHite House would be locked up for treason. Why would you want to see a fumbling incompetent running around in the government for another four years? Do you think bullying and violence are diplomatic tools of choice? Or do you sympathize with his inability to think clearly?

A

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 12:07 AM

I need a list of impeccable sources approved by Mr. Nerd cause it hurts so much when he calls me a liar.

On the night of the election I saw on a cable news channel, an elderly seemingly Jewish woman say that someone called her about the ballot. They asked her who she voted for she said she voted for "Al Lieberman I think".

Later on it was reported that telemarketers were calling voters and alerting them that there was a problem with the ballot. (which was designed by a democrat, Theresa LePore and approved by another democrat.)

"At a rally with Al Gore the night before the election, Democratic Rep. Lacy Clay told a crowd in St. Louis that he would 'get a court order' the next day to keep the polls open," the editorial states. "Then the next afternoon, lawsuits were filed in Kansas City and St. Louis claiming the polls should stay open because minorities were having trouble voting that day. The Gore-Lieberman campaign was the only plaintiff to appear in both suits. Within minutes of the filing for a problem presumably just discovered that day, pre-recorded phone calls from Jesse Jackson poured into St. Louis telling people they could vote late.

Telemarketers are an important election tool for Democrats.

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: Nerd
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 03:32 PM

Old Guy, you are the sneaky liar. You are simply plagiarizing lies from all over the internet.

For example:

Only two people complained to their respective precincts about the ballots while the election was going on. It wasn't until the Gore campaign unleashed a massive telemarketing scheme asking, "Did you have a problem with voting and the ballot?" of thousands of Florida voters they called did people begin to complain. "If you did, then you must report it because it is crucial to the Gore campaign," the telemarketers told voters.

Was written by Jonathan Cribbs, editor in chief of the Loony "Patriot Press."

And

"Even before polls closed on election night in Florida, Gore-paid telemarketers made thousands of phone calls to Palm Beach Democrats suggesting and encouraging ?complaints? of voter confusion. Remember the ?outrage? claimed about ?inadvertent? votes for Pat Buchanan? This included both direct and reverse claims of racism: 1) blacks would never vote for Buchanan (except that his running mate was, in fact, black, and 2) Jewish voters would never vote for Buchanan; after all, they claimed, he?s an anti-Semite!"

Was writtn by Dan Frisa of NewsMax.com

So where is your evidence for any of it? It isn't exactly from an impeccable source. Even if it WERE a reliable source, you ought to cite it, not just regurgitate it. Otherwise you are a just pretending to be something you're not, a sneaky no-good slime and perhaps even an arrogant asshole.

Finally, the last bit is also irrelevant. Buchanan had little support in the Jewish or black communities, and polls showed that both before and after the election. The suspicious fact was that many more votes were cast for Buchanan in black and Jewish neighborhoods than either pre-election polling or exit polling suggested. People either thought they had voted for someone else, or systematically lied to the pollsters.

Finally, of course, Buchanan's antipathy toward the black and jewish communities is well known. In his autobiography he supports segregation; he has publicly accused Carol Mosely-Braun of grandstanding on the confederate flag issue, saying that the flag has nothing to do with slavery and that the civil war didn't either; he was enthusiastically supported by David Duke and other famous white-supremacists; Zhiranovsky considered him a kindred spirit and wrote him a letter suggesting that Buchanan and he could deport the "troublesome tribe" of Jews to some unfortunate third country, etc., etc. Few Jews and even fewer Blacks would vote for him.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 03:08 PM

"budget balanced for the first time since the Depression, I believe."

You believe wrong. The forecast budget surplus was only on paper. If the good financial times of 1999 had continued we would indeed have had a balanced budget. However that was a bubble spearheaded by the Internet bubble. The financial downturn that "Clinton allowed to happen" began in the spring of 2000 and wiped out any anticipated budget surplus.

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: Amos
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 02:39 PM

Old Guy,

I would suggest the current decline began by an overdose of Reagonomics. Clinton's watch ended with the budget balanced for the first time since the Depression, I believe. 'Course that has now been shot to hell by your man's dramatizations of war and fiscal frivolities of one or another kind. The deficit has soared to the largest in history under his (bush's) watch. Hardly seems right toblame that on Bill.

But you don't strike me as the kind to care for statistics or facts when your mind is made up.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 02:30 PM

having your party legislate opposing votes out of existence, as happened in Florida?

Even before polls closed on election night in Florida, Gore-paid telemarketers made thousands of phone calls to Palm Beach Democrats suggesting and encouraging complaints of voter confusion. Remember the outrage claimed about inadvertent votes for Pat Buchanan? This included both direct and reverse claims of racism: 1) blacks would never vote for Buchanan (except that his running mate was, in fact, black, and 2) Jewish voters would never vote for Buchanan; after all, they claimed, he's an anti-Semite!

Only two people complained to their respective precincts about the ballots while the election was going on. It wasn't until the Gore campaign unleashed a massive telemarketing scheme asking, "Did you have a problem with voting and the ballot?" of thousands of Florida voters they called did people begin to complain. "If you did, then you must report it because it is crucial to the Gore campaign," the telemarketers told voters.

Then Gore sought to recount the votes only in the counties where he might win. Also he sought to disenfranchise thousands people casting write in ballots.

The poor looser lost anyway.

PS: The current decline in the American economy began in the spring of 2000 on Clinton's watch and Bush inherited it.

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 02:16 PM

The point is Kerry pretends to be something he is not. He is blowing smoke. He is sneaky. He met with the North vietnamese twice in Paris while we were at war.


Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 12:26 PM

I don't give a damn if Kerry drives the Starship Enterprise. I'll vote for him over Bush any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

What a load of dingo's kidneys!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 10:52 AM

My family owns a substantial percentage of the Island country of Bermuda (including the high-end real estate). Fat lot of good it does me.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 03:30 AM

Anyone who wants to be president is an arrogant asshole. I'm serious. It takes an immense ego and an immense desire for power. They're all creepy people. Judge them by their deeds, not their assholicism.

There's a little paper in Crawford Texas (!) that put it this way:

"Four items trouble us the most about the Bush administration: his initiatives to disable the Social Security system, the deteriorating state of the American economy, a dangerous shift away from the basic freedoms established by our founding fathers, and his continuous mistakes regarding Iraq."
(Lone Star Iconoclast: www.iconoclast-texas.com)

I'd say "continuous mistakes" regarding everything he's touched. Time to fire him and give a new asshole a chance to screw up. The new guy is long-jawed and stuffy, but he doesn't claim to channel God the way Bush & Osama do.

clint

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 03:14 AM

Man, I got a good laugh out of that list of Kerry family vehicles!

Rich people run for President. Rich people can afford a lot of vehicles. While they run they try very hard to pretend that they empathize with poor people. After they're elected, well, that's a different story...

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: Nerd
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 02:49 AM

Old Guy,

Bush does the diner/ribs/fast food thing all the time, and you know that's not what he eats when he's not on the road at campaign stops. Honestly, you're simply taking the exact things all candidates do and blaming Kerry for them as though he made them up.

I also don't see any source for your information about vehicles.

And, depending on who you consider to be in my "family," you could claim "my family" has three million-dollar homes. In fact, I have none, but some of my relatives do. I do not live in them, and in fact rarely visit them. I myself live in a row house in a solid working-middle class neighborhood. So how are my relatives' homes a reflection on my lifestyle or my honesty?

In short, Old Guy, You're just making shit up.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 12:01 AM

sorry, but I am concerned with who, and which party, I think will make the best decisions about running the country, NOT in nit-picking about public image and trivial points of how many cars he 'admits' owning.

As I said, lists of Bush's faults and personal flaws can be made, and as a matter of fact ARE available all over the internet....

and I wonder if 'pandering' to get votes is a worse fault than stealing them by having your party legislate opposing votes out of existence, as happened in Florida?

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 11:49 PM

The point here is Kerry pretends to be something he is not.

Does bush deny he owns a big Ford pick up?

Does he pretend to like Wendys food like the common man and the eat high on the hog when the public is not watching?

Has he ever denied being an oil man?

I don't see anything pretentious about Bush but I see Kerry as a fake that goes around pointing his finger at others and calling them a liar.

John Kerry: "I'm fascinated by rap and by hip-hop. I think there's a lot of poetry in it. There's a lot of anger, a lot of social energy in it. And I think you'd better listen to it pretty carefully, 'cause it's important. I'm still listening because I know that it's a reflection of the street and it's a reflection of life."

Is this or is this not a case of pandering, AKA sucking ass, to get more votes?

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 11:30 PM

anyone could compile an equally interesting list about Bush. I saw a pic of him in a BIG truck on his ranch...and HE is by profession an oil man,,,just not a very successful one. I doubt GW eats bologna sandwiches, either...

Lists don't prove much.

Oil is limited...we need to look beyond it, and in general, the Democrats are more likely to look than those Republicans who have a vested interest in keeping the wells pumping until every last drop has been wrenched from every last bit of shale and wildlife refuge.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 11:21 PM

Kerry's effort at independance on foreign oil:

Kerry insisted, "I do NOT own an SUV" said John Kerry during an environmental speech, but when pressed about a Chevrolet Suburban, the mother of all SUVs, kept at the Heinz Kerry abode in Idaho, Kerry said: "The family has it. I don't have it."

There are eight "family" cars and SUVs, including the 1995 Suburban (15 mpg highway, 12 mpg city), a 1993 Land Rover Defender (12 mpg highway, 10 mpg city), a 1989 Jeep Cherokee (20 mpg highway, 16 mpg city), a 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee (20 mpg highway, 15 mpg city), a 2001 Audi Allroad (21 mpg highway, 15 mpg city), a 2001 Chrysler PT Cruiser (25 mpg highway, 20 mpg city), a 1985 Dodge 600 Convertible (26 mpg highway, 23 mpg city), and a 2002 Chrysler 300M (26 mpg highway, 18 mpg city). Kerry, however, only owns up to the latter two.
    Then there's the 2002 Harley Davidson (his), two powerboats (one his, one hers), a power inflatable 2001 Novurania (his), and a Gulfstream II private jet (hers).

Kerry's common man hypocrisy:

While John Kerry, John Edwards and their families were having a "lite" lunch at Wendy's in the Town of Newburgh Friday, drumming up local support, their real lunches were waiting on their bus.
A member of the Kerry advance team called the Newburgh Yacht Club the night before and ordered 19 five-star lunches to go.
The gourmet meals to go included shrimp vindallo, grilled diver sea scallops, prosciutto, wrapped stuffed chicken, and steak salad. The meals came to about $200. Days later, after feigning a hankering for some "baby back ribs and a vanilla malted" from a famed Wisconsin diner, Senator Kerry was found dining on filet mignon at a nearby restaurant.

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: Once Famous
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 05:51 PM

Whatever it takes.

At least they'll tie with a belly full of constipation.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 05:11 PM

Good point, Ronald. Yeah, Martin. Best way to kill them is to make them eat our food. Then we won't have to bother teaching them to read.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Ronald McDonald
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 05:09 PM

Thanks, Martin! Your check is in the mail. Don't believe the lies in that awful movie "Supersize Me". It was funded by Saddam and Al Queda. Our hamburgers are wonderful, and I think your idea is right on the money.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: Once Famous
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 05:03 PM

I say that we trade McDonald hamburgers for their oil.

Or better yet, give their people an education. Like how to learn to read.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 04:58 PM

Sport Utility Vehicle

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 04:12 PM

OK stupid question time, but if you could just answer me I can follow this better...what's a SUV? Told you it was stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 03:35 PM

Depends on whether or not we respect their right to set the price they are willing to accept for their oil.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: Once Famous
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 03:26 PM

How about if we don't take their oil, but we pay for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 03:11 PM

Old Guy, I said this before. We can drastically reduce our dependence on foriegn oil with simple, common sense conservation measures. We already have the technology. If a person can afford a to buy large SUV, that same person can certainly afford to by a hybrid SUV. And there are many other ways this can be accomplished right now. We don't need to wait 20 years to be able to drastically reduce our dependence on Middle Eastern oil. Another thing we could do fairly quickly would be to provide diesel fuel made from non petroleum plant oils for those vehicles that can burn diesel.

The US uses way more petroleum per person than any other country. We do not have a right to expect to be able to just take oil from other countries against their will so that we can continue to waste it irresponsibly. Especially if it means waging war on those countries in order to do that. That way of doing things is about as anti-democracy as it is possible to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 02:55 PM

the American public is composed of idiots

Well, for example, last I heard a majority of U.S. citizens still believed Iraq was responsible for the planes hitting the twin towers on 11 Sept.

If that's not idiocy- dunno what is. I don't say there's NO hope, just very little if that's any measure of the intelligence they're dealing with.

God help America.

Best, Greg

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 12:32 PM

Now you're talkin', Old Guy. It is just like the Bloods and the Crips. I can think of nothing that would do America more good right now than to totally abolish the Democratic and Republican parties, and all the other damned parties too, and just vote for individuals. Then those individuals would not owe their souls to a party machine, and would be free to vote their conscience in Congress. There would be NO party in power in Washington, just a group of freely elected representatives who would NOT be artificially divided into two warring power blocks intent on discrediting and ruining each other.

And it would throw a monkey wrench into the damned lobbyists too, because they would not have a party bureacracy to control and bribe any longer.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: Nerd
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 11:43 AM

GUEST, that's obviously not a cowboy but a gangster.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 11:12 AM

Who is this cowboy?

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: Nerd
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 10:57 AM

Amos,

I think the scientific term is assoholics...

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: Amos
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 10:38 AM

Give 'em hell, Thomas. Between the apathists and the assholists it is hard to find a niche for a decent conversation any more!!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 10:03 AM

Oh. Greg F...

There's no hope... we're all doomed... the American public is composed of idiots and talk radio preachers... Intelligence is just one of those civil liberties we've had to give up for our freedom...

Throwing in the towel already, then...

Snap out of it! Do something really good today. Don't fall for the mirage of meaninglessness that they've cast over the crowd... It can't last.

Cherrio!
ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 09:31 AM

If Kerry can't expose the monumental cack-handedness of Bush

Won't matter a fart in a high wind if he does. The moronic electorate has no need of facts, & would't know a fact if it reared up on its hind legs and bit them in their collective asses.

Get used to the idea of "Four More Years".

God Help America.

Greg

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 03:37 AM

If Kerry can't expose the monumental cack-handedness of Bush in Thursday's debate, then America really is in an abysmal quandary regarding an even half-decent president.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: Amos
Date: 27 Sep 04 - 10:36 PM

Don't bother, Old Guy -- our votes will just cancel each othe rout!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 27 Sep 04 - 10:10 PM

I'm for that magic wand.

clint

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 27 Sep 04 - 09:49 PM

The 9/11 Commission reports that in March 1998 two al Qaeda members visited Baghdad. And in July 1998, "an Iraqi delegation traveled to Afghanistan to meet first with the Taliban and then with bin Laden."

I am totally against this stupid two party system we have. It reminds me of the Bloods and the Crips. It should be eliminated so each congressman can vote for bills strictly on their merit and not owe anything to anyone except the American people that elected them. Also what the hell happened to the line item veto? We had it for a short time under Clinton but it went away. Please bring it back

I am against lobbyists. I am against the money involved in politics. When our system of government was created we did not have the same set of circumstances that we have now. Adjustments should be made before we slip into anarchy and then a dictatorship.

Now if someone has a magic wand please wave it.

In the mean time I am going to vote for the best man, not for my party. Come to think about it I don't really belong to either party but I liked old man Bush, Reagan and Kennedy. I did not like Clinton, Carter or Nixon, The rest were OK but not great.

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Sep 04 - 09:28 PM

Kerry is like any good Republican or Democrat...he says whatever he thinks is expedient at the time. They all do. Sometimes it comes back to haunt them.

It amazes me that anyone still has faith in either one of those 2 parties. Just amazes me. Faith like that is impervious to experience and as solid and useless as a lead balloon.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 27 Sep 04 - 09:00 PM

"Kerry is ridiculed for thinking and re-thinking"

He thought he was 5 miles into Cambodia on Christmas of 1968 then he rethought it and he was actually in Sa Dec, 50 miles away from Cambodia. Then after a third rethink he was near Cambodia.

"I think we clearly have to keep the pressure on terrorism globally. This doesn't end with Afghanistan by any imagination. And I think the president has made that clear. I think we have made that clear. Terrorism is a global menace. It's a scourge. And it is absolutely vital that we continue, for instance, Saddam Hussein."

"I agree completely with this administration's goal of a regime change in Iraq"

"I said at the time I would have preferred if we had given diplomacy a greater opportunity, but I think it was the right decision to disarm Saddam Hussein, and when the president made the decision, I supported him, and I support the fact that we did disarm him."

"Democratic primary rival Howard Dean said the world was not safer with Saddam out of power. Kerry strongly disagreed. Anybody who believes that, Kerry said, doesn't "have the judgment to be president."

It is nice to have a man that you can believe running for President.

Would Osama vote for Kerry or Bush?

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Sep 04 - 04:09 PM

"... don't be afraid to change your mind."

good advice, Clint. Situations change, and a mind that will not re-evaluate is a closed mind.---Yet Kerry is ridiculed for thinking and re-thinking, while Bush is PRAISED? for grabbing one position and concept and holding onto it for dear life while fluid situations swirl about him....

I'd much rather have a leader who will pay attention to what IS happening than one who tries to MAKE everything work according to his pre-concieved ideas.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 27 Sep 04 - 03:40 PM

I can't resist. Sorry.

"Apparently UBL is in a hole in Pakistan. The US cannot hunt him in that country... So Bush is a failure because he hasn't found UBL?"

Yes. UBL's the main man behind 9/11. Bush made a big brag about hunting him out of his hole. The US couldn't hunt him in Pakistan, but we could hunt him in Iraq? Come on.

"The majority of people in the military and in the white house believed Chalabi so Bush is a failure?"

Yes. Even here in the backwoods I read about Chalabi's history long before he crashed.

"Let's admit it. We believed he had them. Many of us were saying "screw the slow bumbling UN inspectors, let's go in and get him now" "

Many of us weren't. Check the posts in this forum, for example.

"I still have not seen anything about what Kerry will do except something different from what Bush is doing."

Sounds good to me.

"I for one do not need an asshole like Kerry telling me what to think. I can think independently of the lynch mob."

You don't need an asshole like Kerry OR an asshole like Bush telling you what to think. Nor an asshole like me. Nobody does. Find what facts you can & don't be afraid to change your mind.

clint

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Sep 04 - 03:29 PM

Hey, Old Guy, my main worry is that if Kerry does get into office, he WON'T do anything substantially different from what Bush is doing!

What the hell, they are both financed by the same basic interests (US banks and major corporations). Why would Kerry do anything much different from Bush? His backers wouldn't allow him to.

Bush and Kerry are the latest two figureheads of the same gigantic snake. Your 2 party system is a farce.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: Nerd
Date: 27 Sep 04 - 02:02 PM

The operative clause, as you know, GUEST, is "will be all the more lethal if we allow them to build arsenals of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and missiles to deliver them. We simply cannot allow that to happen."

We did not allow that to happen. Bush's surrogates told us it HAD happened, and we had to go to war over it. Now even THEY have admitted that it didn't happen.

Your quote from the last paragraph really shows how weak the connection was. They reached an understanding that Al Qaeda would not overthrow Saddam...wow, they must have been bestest friends, GUEST! They also said that they might work together in the future on weapons development. The problem is that later intelligence shows thay did NOT work together, and that Al Qaeda's overtures to Saddam were essentially rebuffed. So all you have remaining from Clinton's indictment is that Al Qaeda didn't try to overthrow Saddam. Strong evidence, GUEST!

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Sep 04 - 11:11 AM

On February 17, 1998, President Clinton, speaking at the Pentagon, warned of the "reckless acts of outlaw nations and an unholy axis of terrorists, drug traffickers and organized international criminals." These "predators of the twenty-first century," he said, these enemies of America, "will be all the more lethal if we allow them to build arsenals of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and missiles to deliver them. We simply cannot allow that to happen. There is no more clear example of this threat than Saddam Hussein's Iraq."

Later that spring, the Clinton Justice Department prepared an indictment of Osama bin Laden. The relevant passage, prominently placed in the fourth paragraph, reads:

Al Qaeda reached an understanding with the government of Iraq that al Qaeda would not work against that government and that on particular projects, specifically including weapons development, al Qaeda would work cooperatively with the government of Iraq.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: Amos
Date: 27 Sep 04 - 11:10 AM

I for one did not believe it and thought the inspections program should have been extended.

So mind who you are lumping into "we all believed" crap.

If Bush ever gets tried for war crimes, I will be on hand to collect my "Toljaso" points.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 27 Sep 04 - 11:00 AM

Apparently UBL is in a hole in Pakistan. The US cannot hunt him in that country but thank God Musharif has the guts to try to find him like the other top Al Quaeda members they have found. So Bush is a failure because he hasn't found UBL?

The majority of people in the military and in the white house believed Chalabi so Bush is a failure?

Did anybody see the PBS documentary in July 11, 2002 called "Saddam's Ultimate Solution" about all of the evidence pointing to Saddam's support of Alquaeda and his WMDs? It was narrated by Clinton State Department spokesman James Rubin.

Even Bill Clinton has said he believed Saddam had WMD's but everybody tries to put the sole responsibility on Bush. Let's admit it. We believed he had them. Many of us were saying "screw the slow bumbling UN inspectors, let's go in and get him now" The same congressmen that are calling bush a liar now had access to the same intelligence that Bush had. Now we need to use Bush as a scape goat.

I still have not seen anything about what Kerry will do except something different from what Bush is doing.

I for one do not need an asshole like Kerry telling me what to think. I can think independently of the lynch mob.

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Sep 04 - 03:05 AM

"Should we have attacked all three Axis of Evil nations at once? Should we have attacked all three Axis of Evil nations at once? Should Korea have been attacked before Iraq? Or maybe Iran first?

"If we should not attack any of them why are the antiwar people asking about attacking Iran and Korea?"

In my case, it is to point out that it's dumb to attack any of them.

Our business is with Osama, who is behind 9/11. First things first. The other three nations have no connection with 9/11. Mr Bush, among others, said so. Osama is still running loose and we are militarily overextended. We should have hunted him out of his hole, dead or alive, as some bigmouth once said. But we got switched to a vanity war by an administration that played upon our fears and patriotism.

And those three countries are not an Axis. That's propaganda.

And this is a futile post. The Old Guy is not going to think outside the official line and too many of us have lost our tempers, including me and Old Guy.

clint (probably an even Older Guy)

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Sep 04 - 02:28 AM

"Kerry has the guts to put down his own country and his own military. He also has the guts to be for the war and against the war 6 months later." And this to a man who donned his country's uniform, repeatedly putting his life in danger. And you are FOR a man who stayed stateside and didn't even fulfill the commitment he had made in order to do so. As a man once said, 'At long last, Sir, have you no decency?'


"This corruption would still be channeling money to them if Saddam had not been removed from power. Therefore the invasion of Iraq was a necessary part of the war on terrorism." Ah ha! One more reason for invading Iraq!

"I know what bush will do so I am voting for him." I too know what he does so I am NOT voting for him.

"Just blow the bastards that want to kill us away and the rest of the Arab world will show us respect like Qaddafi." You've watched too many movies.

"Plus the war planners were mislead by one Mr Chalabi, a lying thief who is only after money. It was a total mistake to believe his line of bullshit." Chalabi was believed by your Mr. bush to the tune of $3000.00 plus per month. It was the bush who made the 'mistake'.

"What the hell is the answer except to try to stabilize the middle east?" It isn't working too well, is it. One more time: you cannot force democracy upon ANYBODY. If it doesn't come from within, it's not democracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 27 Sep 04 - 02:07 AM

If Kerry does such and such is not enough to make me want to vote for him. Nobody can tell what he will do because he does not take a firm stand on anything. He is for and against everything. He kisses the ass of everybody just to get elected and then what?

I know what bush will do so I am voting for him.

He had the guts to do something about Afghanistan and Saddam. Kerry has the guts to put down his own country and his own military. He also has the guts to be for the war and against the war 6 months later.

Again I ask about the corruption in the oil for food program. It put money in the hands of terrorist organizations. This corruption would still be channeling money to them if Saddam had not been removed from power. Therefore the invasion of Iraq was a necessary part of the war on terrorism.

Now how about Iran an N Korea. Yes they are a threat. Should we have attacked all three Axis of Evil nations at once? Should Korea have been attacked before Iraq? Or maybe Iran first?

If we should not attack any of them why are the antiwar people asking about attacking Iran and Korea? An attack on either or no attacks at all would have brought protests too so why try to play a popularity contest? Just blow the bastards that want to kill us away and the rest of the Arab world will show us respect like Qaddafi.

Part of the war plan in Iraq was to use local uprisings to overthrow Saddam but it did not work out that way. It seems we left the people that were uprising in the last war with their ass hanging out and they did not trust us this time. Plus the war planners were mislead by one Mr Chalabi, a lying thief who is only after money. It was a total mistake to believe his line of bullshit.

Is this transition to being independent on oil is supposed to happen overnight? I think the transition would be over a 20 year period at least. Are jetliners supposed to fly with rubber bands for engines? How about heating and electrical generation? Are we to burn wood for heat? Nobody wants nuclear power plants because of the risk and disposing of the waste. We can't drill for oil in Alaska. We can't cut down trees for firewood.

What the hell is the answer except to try to stabilize the middle east? I don't think Kerry has a magic wand that will do the job and no plan that I have heard except "working with foreign leaders" that are dead set against working with the US and specifically him.

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry is an arrogant asshole
From: Nerd
Date: 27 Sep 04 - 01:24 AM

Okay, Old Guy.

If you want to see why people like Kerry, see this thread. Like I said, we've done this before, and just because you come in here and say "you're not being specific enough," "you have nothing to say," etc., we aren't going to re-type everything we've already written. So here, read already!