Tech: New Problem with New Office

Subject: RE: Tech: New Problem with New Office
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 12:02 AM

This is one of those times when Mudcat could use some of those emoticons one sees on some forums. Most of them are too "cute" to be tolerated, but there is one with a figure banging its head on a desk that would suit about now.

Subject: RE: Tech: New Problem with New Office
From: Jim Lad
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 05:53 PM

Thanks John. I'll do that tonight.

Subject: RE: Tech: New Problem with New Office
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 05:43 PM

Jim Lad -

When I had to replace a hard drive recently, the "mirror image" drive that I'd made about three months earlier resulted in a "disabled Office" and a refusal by the Microsoft Update site to download even Critical Updates for WinXP. The Microsoft update site gave no explanation or suggestions.

A separate visit to the Office Update site got a request that I "validate" my Office copy, which was quickly done, and after that was accomplished everything worked again, including the Microsoft Update site.

If you visit the Office Update site and let them scan for updates, they may give you a chance to do a validation on the older Office - and possibly to do a clean validation on the newer one.

Installing another older Office from different disks quite likely will result in exactly the same problem you have with your present version, if it's due to an "authentication" difficulty (assuming of course that your present copy is "as legal" as the new one you might get).

I'd suggest you see what you can find at Office 2003 Solution Center before just trying another disk. There is a "validate an Office version" button there.

Microsoft Office 2007 Solution Center may also be helpful since you have both versions. (At the bottom there is a "find out about running Office 2007 on a computer that is running an earlier version.")

John

Subject: RE: Tech: New Problem with New Office
From: Jim Lad
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 05:26 PM

Sorry John. I did a clean install with Ultimate.
"Microsoft has recently been known to "cripple" earlier programs"...
I'd bet on that. It's for Brenda's work (I don't use it) so we'll just get them to supply a new disc.
Thanks.
Jim

Subject: RE: Tech: New Problem with New Office
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 05:23 PM

right..."I'm from the government Microsoft, and I'm here to help".

Subject: RE: Tech: New Problem with New Office
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 04:42 PM

Bill D -

Word 2000 is still "compatible."

In prior updates the default was to provide and turn on the "compatibility filters."

In the new ones, the default is to turn OFF the "compatibility filters" and you have to jump through a couple of hoops to turn them on.

(According to Mr LeBlanc at least. And we know we can trust him because he works for Microsoft.)

?????

John

Subject: RE: Tech: New Problem with New Office
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 04:36 PM

Jim Lad -

It's not too uncommon for an OS upgrade to fail to carry programs intact into the new installation. This is especially likely when you have more than one version of a program on the machine at the time of upgrade. Quite likely, the upgrade saved Office 2007, since it's the current version under Vista, and failed to keep all of Office 2003 or "mislinked" some of it's functions.

If this is what happened, you probably will want to reinstall Office 2003 if you really think you need to keep both. In previous versions of Windows/Office, a "repair install" usually would not damage files you'd created (.doc, .dot and .docx, dota in this case for Word) but I haven't used Vista enough to verify that this is true for it, so a backup would be recommended.

You might also be experiencing an "authentication" problem. Earlier Office suites could be moved from one computer to another, but Microsoft has recently been known to "cripple" earlier programs until you visit their site and verify that the copy is legal. Office 2003, for an OEM version, could be limited to the machine it came on, and/or verification for multiple versions on the same machine may require special actions on your part.

In earlier Win versions, Windows Explorer would let you search for filenames (e.g. *.do* for Word should find everything) and once the search was complete a Ctl-A would select all, Ctl-C to copy, and go to a place where you want the backup and Ctl-V to paste them all safely. Vista "Search" is so "vastly improved" that I haven't yet found a way to do that kind of a search, and the method loses "file tree information" since everything would go into a single folder; so I'd probably use a command line XCOPY or the new ROBOCOPY to make a backup.

The built-in backup in Vista is said to be "greatly improved" but past history with Microsoft "backup" does not inspire confidence - try it if you're brave enough. (Microsoft backup has generally indicated successful performance - but I'd suggest verifying that "restore" also works anytime a Microsoft backup is used for the first time. Some previous versions have omitted the restore half of the operation, and others have permitted restoring only "inconvenient forms" of the backup.)

Appearance of "improved" and "Vista" in the same text is also close to a "red flag warning" and "greatly improved" is a red flag with sirens and bells - based on my limited experience with Vista thus far. Vista may turn out to be okay, or even pretty good; but I'm looking for someone to teach me the new baby-talk so I can find the instructions. Adult language or traditional tech words and phrases simply don't work in the new searches, in help files or at Microsoft's web resources. (The new "indexed search" is much faster than the old methods. It finds nothing much more quickly.)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: New Problem with New Office
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 03:54 PM

so here we sit with this ancient, useless thing called Word 2000.

Funny, though....it does whatever my wife asks it to. (I almost never touch it).
Yes, I know that ummmmm....'improvements' have been made and security issues grow every year, but making new versions incompatable with OLD (6 years??)files seems pretty harsh for coping.

Subject: RE: Tech: New Problem with New Office
From: Jim Lad
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 03:23 PM

I have both and Office 2003 was not a problem until I upgraded to Vista Ultimate from Home Premium...

Subject: RE: Tech: New Problem with New Office
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 03:15 PM

Geoff the Duck - Open office is good, but does not have all of the capabilities available in Office. Some of the "missing ones" are things that are essential for our line of business.

Newport Boy - Same problem. When people are paying you to get something done, "screw you" is NOT a particularly wise thing to say.

Jim Lad -

If the message says Office 2003 wasn't installed correctly, it means Office 2003 wasn't installed correctly. Unless you have both Office 2003 and Office 2007 installed there's no "clash."

Failure to fix little problems as they arise is almost certain to result in VERY BIG PROBLEMS eventually, so a "repair installation" would probably be a very good idea when you can get to it.

If the message has started coming up recently, it's much more likely that an update has failed to install than that the original installation has suddenly developed a problem. There have been some reports of difficulties, with SP3 especially, but there are descriptions of fairly specific remedies at Microsoft.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: New Problem with New Office
From: Jim Lad
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 12:24 PM

So John:
       When I open Office 2003, I get a message saying that it wasn't installed correctly and would I like to do it over again. I ignore this and carry on, unhindered.
Is my Office 2003 clashing with 2007?

Subject: RE: Tech: New Problem with New Office
From: Newport Boy
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 11:04 AM

I'm more than ever glad that I don't use Microsoft Office. If I receive files that Star Office or Microsoft Viewers won't open, I just ask the senders to supply them in a readable format.

It either works or it doesn't - I don't mind either way.

Phil

Subject: RE: Tech: New Problem with New Office
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 10:09 AM

It all sounds like a good reason to install Open Office (or keep Portable Open Office - Part of the Open Apps Suite - on a USB stick) and never use Microsoft again.
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Tech: New Problem with New Office
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 08:59 AM

My own (over?)simplified interpretation follows:

In past updates, it has been the usual practice to make newer versions automatically and by default able to import older Office files.

For some recent updates it has been necessary to separately install export filters to allow the new version to save files that could be read by an older one; and addition of import/export filters in the older version to allow it to use files from a newer one was fairly common.

For Office 2007, it was decided that the "readers" for some older files present a "security risk." The files themselves are not a risk – only the programs that "read" them are risky.

By default, Office 2007 may block access to Office files produced by older versions of Word, Excel, and Power Point. Files produced by some older versions of CorelDraw may also be blocked.

Office 2003, after SP3 is installed, will generally block access to the same files.

In Office 2007 it is claimed that you can "easily" create a "trusted folder" and anything in that folder will be opened without checking with the new security system that would otherwise block them. (The new child-speak for the security system is "The Trust Center." Typically "cute" for Office 2007.)

The "trusted folder" method probably can be used in Office 2003 SP3, but is reportedly "more difficult." I haven't checked out "how much more difficult."

For Office 2003 SP3, the recommended method of accessing the files is to make a series of Registry Edits. Instructions given in applicable Microsoft KB articles are – admitted by LeBlanc – "vague and confusing."

Updates to a couple of KB articles, to clarify them and to provide "automated" methods for turning access to the files in question on or off are promised. A quick look indicates that not all the updates promised have been made. The Office 2003 SP3 "fixes" will consist of a set of 8 .reg files that you can download and keep handy. Four of these will turn on access, each to a different kind of file, and the other four will be for turning off access when it's no longer needed.

For those not familiar with them, a .reg file is a "registry archive" file that saves all or a portion of the registry. If you "double-click" a .reg file, it's contents are instantly written into the Registry.

Anyone who has Office files going back to Win95 and possibly to Win98 and who may someday have Office 2003 or later, may someday wish they had a bookmark to "how to open the old ones."

The above linked blog entry has the necessary info; but for a more "stable" source I would recommend noting:

KB 922849 Describes how to create a "trusted folder" from which the legacy files can be opened. (Easiest in Office 2007)

KB 938810 Description of the format support changes.

After noting the locations, check back according to your own inclination, to see if the promised "clarifications" appear.

(Let us all now emit a resounding roar signifying our unanimous approval for progress.)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: New Problem with New Office
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 08:57 AM

Additional details of what's going on are to be found in a "Blog" by an apparently senior Microsoft person, described by MSNBC as "David LeBlanc, a senior software development engineer for Microsoft Office."

Found via independent channels of research: David LeBlanc's Blog

Since the blog is an on-going thing, the above will only get you to the most recent posts, so something more specific will be needed to find the pertinent articles later.

How Microsoft Tracks What Is Used should go to the article immediately following LeBlanc's discussion of the blocked files. This post does contain some comments that may be of interest and applicable to the description of the file blocking.

Office 2003 SP3 and File Formats should take you directly to the blog entry on how to access the blocked files in both Office 2007 and in Office 2003 SP3.

More coming.

John

Subject: Tech: New Problem with New Office
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 08:55 AM

An MSNBC news bit describes a "feature" in Microsoft Office 2007, also applied to Office 2003 by SP3, that blocks opening of certain "legacy" files. (Office 2003 SP3 was released in September 2007.)

The new feature imposes a "Security Block" that prevents opening Office files from all Office versions released ca. 1995 or before, and may affect some later versions. CorelDraw files from similar eras may also be affected. Since Office and Corel versions are often carried over when OS updates are made, Win98 and WinMe users who switch to Office 2003 or later, or who exchange documents with those using the newer versions, may be affected.

The News Article describes the "new fix" for this problem, but in characteristic fashion does not provide a link to where the fix can be found. The article many be of interest to the "less technically inclined."

More to follow.

John