bc accordion and irish music

Subject: RE: bc accordion and irish music
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 08:40 AM

Not possible - they play in the basic E chord position (standard tuning), then capo UP from there...

Subject: RE: bc accordion and irish music
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 07:21 AM

Just hide their capos!

Subject: RE: bc accordion and irish music
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 08:35 AM

"If you play in a genre that uses a limited number of keys its not worth having unused buttons, similarly with the bass"

I agree totally, my 32 bass is my faoured instrument. But I need the minimum of a 48 (4x12 not 8x6) to be able to cope with 'folk musos', especially those guitarists who insist on playing in keys like E Major!

:-)

Subject: RE: bc accordion and irish music
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 08:34 AM

hi,I live in Ireland,its my partner who plays the dg,
I play the concertina.thanks for your help.Dick Miles.

Subject: RE: bc accordion and irish music
From: Marilyn
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 07:44 AM

Captain Birdseye: "is the castagnari matti ,still being made?"

No, sorry, apparently I got the last one ever made.

The lightweight three row that Castagnari are still making is the Benny and I think you might have to put your name down to get one as they seem to be as rare as hen's teeth. Lovely, lovely boxes!
Castagnari Benny


We're going to Chester Folk Festival, Sidmouth and possibly Dent this year. If you're going to be at any of them let me know and we can meet up so you can play the Matti and see what you think.

Marilyn

Subject: RE: bc accordion and irish music
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 04:18 AM

is the castagnari matti ,still being made?

Subject: RE: bc accordion and irish music
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 12:29 PM

It still won't make them any lighter, no matter how may keys you can play in. If you play in a genre that uses a limited number of keys its not worth having unused buttons, similarly with the bass - even Irish piano accordion players tend not to use the basses. There's a reason melodeon players use the term radiator..

Subject: RE: bc accordion and irish music
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 05:18 AM

marilyn,thanks for the info on the matti.

Subject: RE: bc accordion and irish music
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 07:23 AM

"how would adding all those buttons and reeeds help with the lightness versus versatility equation"

...ability to play in any key...

Subject: RE: bc accordion and irish music
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 04:30 AM

There are videos on youtube cathycook1,playing Irish music on a DG with basses
Cathy Cooks channel

Also on sound Lantern
Cathy Cook sound Lantern

Subject: RE: bc accordion and irish music
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 04:02 AM

Stradella? You can get melodeons with stradella bass ala Jimmy Shand but how would adding all those buttons and reeeds help with the lightness versus versatility equation?

Subject: RE: bc accordion and irish music
From: Marilyn
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 03:48 AM

Manitas at Work : "For 3 row a C#DG would be more useful"

This is what I play and, unusually, it's actually much, much lighter than my 2-row box because it's a Castagnari Matti. The extra basses (particularly the A on the push, and an E major) make playing in A really easy.

I play a lot of Irish music on the Matti (as I did on the Hohner Pokerwork D/G that I traded in for it). When I was trying out the various boxes at the Music Room, where I bought the Matti, the guy there said what a pleasure it was to hear someone playing Irish music on the D/G system because so few people do.

I know that a lot of people who play Irish music don't use the basses at all but I do so my 3-row with it's extra 4 basses is great.

I also have a B/C Saltarelle Irish Bouebe and I play mainly English music on that! Probably was just born awkward!!

Subject: RE: bc accordion and irish music
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Apr 08 - 11:58 PM

"is it worth giving up the lightness of the 2 row box to gain the ability to play in a couple of keys you'll rarly use?"

One Word .... Stradella.... :-)

from a Piano Accordion Player.... :-P

Subject: RE: bc accordion and irish music
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 24 Apr 08 - 04:01 AM

For most quint system players the downside would be the extra weight. You still wouldn't be able to play in any key but with the right accidentals at the bottom of the treble keyboard you'd have a useful range for music from the British Isles at least. It's a value judgement - is it worth giving up the lightness of the 2 row box to gain the ability to play in a couple of keys you'll rarly use? A 2 1/2 row box might make more sense.

For 3 row a C#DG would be more useful.

Subject: RE: bc accordion and irish music
From: Barry Finn
Date: 23 Apr 08 - 11:56 PM

Then what would be the down side of playing a 3 row, say an ADG?
You'd have everything there that you'd need no matter what the key, major or minor, right, no??

Barry

Subject: RE: bc accordion and irish music
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Apr 08 - 06:47 AM

one other advantage the dg has, is this,it has more notes the same on each row,so if you want to cross rows ,to play something on a pull instead of a push,you have more scope.
personally,I like to hear all the systems if they are played well.
the more different styles, the more interesting the music becomes.

Subject: RE: bc accordion and irish music
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Apr 08 - 06:33 AM

Andy val,but do you have all the correct basses?
johnny o leary started on D D#,he was given guidance by John Clifford,who later changed to Piano Accordion.

Subject: RE: bc accordion and irish music
From: andyval
Date: 23 Apr 08 - 03:31 AM

on a D/G that is !

Subject: RE: bc accordion and irish music
From: andyval
Date: 23 Apr 08 - 03:30 AM

Depending on the tune, A major is ususlly possible.

Subject: RE: bc accordion and irish music
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 23 Apr 08 - 03:22 AM

Johnny O'Leary

Subject: RE: bc accordion and irish music
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 02:39 PM

yes and many older players play a bc box in the key of c without having the basse retuned, thats fine they are effectively playing like a one row in the key of c.with all the correct major chord basses
the fiddler tunes his fiddle down a tone, and plays as if he is in d.
the bc player now has all the bounce of the c# d or d g.

Subject: RE: bc accordion and irish music
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 02:32 PM

so, because somethings popular,its not worth discussing.
well the point is this, the c# d is better for playing the right chords in D major,
the GD is better for playing all the correct chords in D major and Gmajor and Eminor.and some tunes in a mixolydian.
The BC is fully chromatic on the right hand side,but in certain keys,the bass chords,are not there to fit with the right hand or the players play the wrong bass chords.
a classic example are players in [a minor ]using a major chords,when the tune is in a minor[Bizarre].
the two and half row gd box allows the player to play in a major.
   there are,many very good bc box players some use their right hand only,some like Bobby Gardiner,know when to use their basses and when not.
I have yet to hear c#d players playing wrong bass chords in d major.
yet d major like a minor seems to be more problematical when it comes to playing bass chords for BC Players,.
The DG is the best box for playing irish music in the key of D and G,and having all the correct basses easily available,[if thatshow youwish to play]but obviously is no good for A major.
the two and a half row dg.,only partly solves this problem.

Subject: RE: bc accordion and irish music
From: greg stephens
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 02:15 PM

A very pointful thread I reckon. I think the C#D has a lot going for it for the standard sort of fiddle/box repertoire. It seems to preserve a lot of the diatonic in-out bounce of the old one row, very suitable particularly for the Cork/Kerry sliabh luachra(sp?) type of thing. Seamus Begley plays one, and also Jackie Daley I think; plus that really famous siabh luachra musician, Johnny somebody whose name momentarily eludes me, (I'm sure someone will oblige with it in a minute).
B/C is good for decorations and speed, but it loses some of the bouncy dancability that I love.It has certainly moved from being a rarity to being the most popular one at the moment.
   D/G boxes have been used for Irish music, but they don't seem to have really caught on. They are quite a recent innovation in the Britiash Isles, and have proved eminently sauitable for English tunes(not to mention Tex Mex).
    Of course, a really accomplished player can get more or less the sound he or she wants from any instrument, but for lesser mortals it's good to choose the box that most suits the style you are aiming for.

Subject: RE: bc accordion and irish music
From: GUEST,Joe Burke's beard
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 01:33 PM

What a pointless thread!!!

Might have been worth asking this question forty years ago but utterly daft to do so now when there are so many B/C box players around.

Subject: RE: bc accordion and irish music
From: clueless don
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 09:19 AM

I have the impression that among Irish musicians today, the two dominant systems are B/C and C#/D. I seem to recall that Joe Derrane played (and may still play) D/C#, but he began in an older era.

I'm not saying that one can't play Irish music on a D/G, I'm saying that most Irish musicians don't. Or so I am told.

Don

Subject: RE: bc accordion and irish music
From: Rowan
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 06:25 PM

And on top of the various three-row diatonic button accordions mentioned by John, I've also heard The Moving Cloud played absolutely beautifully on a C#/D/Eb Paolo Soprani. By Mark Tandy, in Canberra, as I recall.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: bc accordion and irish music
From: Harmonium Hero
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 02:07 PM

I think it depends on what you can do with any particular system. For quite a while, the B/C box was regarded as standard, and people said that the D/G box wasn't suitable, but I have read somewhere recently that the D/G used to be the box to use. And there are some who use the one-row box. People are now using C/C#, C#/D, D/D#. And then there are the three-row jobs - traditionally B/C/C#, but I've come across one or two in C/C#/D, and C#/D/G is now quite the thing. Playing in A on a C#/D instrument is like playing in G on a B/C, so if you are working with a fiddler, and a lot of the tunes are in A, then a C#/D box might be preferable. It all depends on whwt you want to play, and on your particular style, I suppose. Any system of melodeon - even if you're calling it a button accordeon, has advantages and disadvantages. You pick the one that, for you, has more of the pros and fewer of the cons. Of course, the three-row with Stradella bass is more versatile, but you're getting into a different instrument: the accordion.
John Kelly.

Subject: RE: bc accordion and irish music
From: Marc Bernier
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 01:57 PM

A BC gives you all the notes in a chromatic scale.

Subject: bc accordion and irish music
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 01:45 PM

I wondered what peoples opinions, were about the suitability of the BC accordion for Irish music.
All the different systems, seem to have advantages and disadvantages.
Dick Miles