'wrong notes' - a personal thing?

Subject: RE: 'wrong notes' - a personal thing?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 02:21 AM

DEFINITION OF JAZZ (Number 75)

Knowing all the notes of a tune, and then playing all the other ones.
(Fines imposed if rule not adhered to!)

Subject: RE: 'wrong notes' - a personal thing?
From: M.Ted
Date: 23 Aug 08 - 09:04 PM

Michael Brecker is one of the best known jazz sax players around today, he's recorded a lot with famous pop stars, and is known for having kind of a lead guitar sensibility to his playing --also, he is much influenced by John Coltrane, so, as I said, he's a bit edgy.

One of the things that he does, and it is probably what you're hearing, is that he plays arpeggios over a chord that are not based on that chord, The trick to this is is that, though they aren't explicitly the chord, the "out there" arpeggios will extend from one of the notes in the chord that is being played.

An example of some thing that he might do would be   to play Dm7, Gm7, and Abmaj7 arpeggios over an F7 chord (not in this particular tune)--

There are reasons that you would do that--often, you get there by simply building vertical chords above the notes in a melodic passage.

Subject: RE: 'wrong notes' - a personal thing?
From: jimmyt
Date: 23 Aug 08 - 06:49 PM

Being somewhat new to the folk music scene but spending 45 years playing jazz trumpet, I can say that although it doesn't seem to fit perfectly with James Taylor, there is not a wrong note he played in my opinion. Jazz guys, especially sax men, seem to find some modal line that is loosely related to the chord structure and if you can follow it, there is a thread of logic to it. Don't get me wrong, I don't care for this rather off-the-wall line he chose, but I think it is based on sound music principles. Just my opinion.   jimmyt

Subject: RE: 'wrong notes' - a personal thing?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 23 Aug 08 - 06:32 PM

all jazz saxophonists play very dodgy notes imo.

I remember going to see a famous British jazz soprano saxophonist back in the seventies (I can't remember his name but I do remember that he was also a brain surgeon (fact, I am not making this up))

anyway, he was completely unlistenable to as far as I was concerned, sounded like he was practising scales, and hadn't quite mastered these scales.

judging by the applause following each number, however, the rest of the audience obviously didn't agree.

a clear case of the emperor's new clothes imo.

Michael Brecker's notes sound dodgy to me as well, but if M.Ted says they are OK, that's good enough for me ...

Subject: RE: 'wrong notes' - a personal thing?
From: M.Ted
Date: 23 Aug 08 - 04:10 PM

I won't say that you're wrong, not exactly any way, just that what you like to hear and what jazz people have been playing for, say, the last fifty odd years, are out of sync.

It is true, however, that the musical devices that were considered to be "way out" in the 50's and 60's are getting to be part of the commercial mainstream--You can't get much more mainstream than old JT.

Subject: 'wrong notes' - a personal thing?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 23 Aug 08 - 03:07 PM

I've included a link to a Michael Brecker/James Taylor recording of the old standard "The Nearness of You". Now, to my ears, Michael is playing some very dodgy notes during his sax break at 2.15min -2.25min. What do other Mudcatters think?

Youtube link