Copyright on Bronson

Subject: RE: Copyright on Bronson
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 06:25 PM

Bertrand Harris Bronson's sources are meticulously credited, and every single tune included was, where not in the public domain, printed by express permission of the copyright owner(s), some of whom are still living. The four volumes of Traditional Tunes of the Child Ballads were published between 1959 and 1972; it was an epic work. As I indicated earlier, each tune is a separate case.

How copyright issues may affect whatever it is that 'Anice' wants to do is impossible to guess at without knowing what it is that she wants to do; and it may be that advice may not come most usefully from somebody who has never heard of the books or their editor. Meanwhile, I'd repeat that she would do well, if she hasn't already done so, to read Bronson's own thoughts on the subject.

Subject: RE: Copyright on Bronson
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 06:12 PM

I presume ANICE refers to the 4-vol. set published and copyright by Princeton Univ. Press, Bertrand Harris Bronson, "The Traditional Tunes of the Child Ballads," 1959ff, and later the abridgement, "The Singing Tradition of Child's Popular Ballads," copyright 1976, also by Princeton Univ. Press.   

The previous post by Malcolm Douglas succinctly states that not all tunes included in Bronson are in the public domain.
Looking at just one of the ballads, "The Three Ravens," includes a tune sung by William Nelson, a version published by Creighton and Senior, 1950. That volume and its contents are under copyright. separately from the printing in Bronson, and there may be a copyright by Nelson.

Subject: RE: Copyright on Bronson
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 05:00 PM

If Bronson ( I know nothing of him/her) is publishing public domain materiel they have no copyright unless they have made fundamental changes. Even then it only applies to the changes and if it is not public domain they must identify the source. Is a copyright mark attached to each piece or the publication as a whole? Who is the authour and when did they pass from this world? Did they convey unto Bronson their copyright? Under what country's laws are you asking? The USA is different from much of the world. What do you intend to do with it?
If you believe it to be public domain and you wish to use it for public performance then do so. If you are recording or publishing it list it as public domain and attach no copyright. If the copyright owners object you can always refrain and at least you will know who they are. If it is public domain or based on public domain the burden of proof falls on the claimant. Unless it is a gold record it probably won't be worth their while.
Many people claim copyright to materiel that they did not compose. Don't worry about the "arrangement" crap until the money flows in. Then your lawyer can arrange a settlement, at least partly, on your terms.

Subject: RE: Copyright on Bronson
From: Jack Campin
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 03:55 PM

Your problem is *applying* the 70-year rule. How do you know when one of Bronson's sources died?

The numbering is irrelevant to copyright (and so is the fact that you happened to get the tune via Bronson, since nothing in that collection was published there for the first time). It's the original source that matters.

Subject: RE: Copyright on Bronson
From: magjam
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 03:41 PM

Thanks for the input. Am waiting for word from the MU on this one, will let you know. As I understand it (just MY take)it seems if you don't use Bronson's numbering, and the tune is covered by the 70 year rule, that should be it. I reiterate, should be!

Subject: RE: Copyright on Bronson
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 07:26 PM

Print-on-demand copies are licensed from Princetown University, which owns the rights to the books.

For Bronson's thoughts on copyright and related issues, see in particular the Preface and Acknowledgments to vol II of his work.

Every single variant of every single tune is a separate case. Merely because some examples are in the public domain doesn't mean that all of them are; many are definitely not.

Whether or not any of that is material to your question would depend on what your intentions might be; since you don't say, it's difficult to be any more helpful than that.

Subject: RE: Copyright on Bronson
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 11:31 AM

Again not a lawyer - but it used to be possible to get volumes one and 2 from a print-on-demand publisher in America.

I have always assumed (but again no expert that this was due to the long spread of publication dates and that eventually they would all be available.

I should add these were not cheap and indeed I have sold single volumes at lower prices.

Subject: RE: Copyright on Bronson
From: MMario
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 11:21 AM

Considering they are suppossed to be TRADITIONAL tunes - I don't see how the copyright could extend to use or performance of the melodies; but again, not a lawyer.

Subject: RE: Copyright on Bronson
From: pavane
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:46 AM

I don't think the copyright on a printed tune covers a performance of it - but better leave it to the experts.

Subject: Copyright on Bronson
From: magjam
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 07:08 AM

Does anyone know what the copyright on Bronson's Tunes covers? Is it just the notation as in the books or would it include midi or abc formats?