Ragtime in a MINOR key

Subject: RE: Ragtime in a MINOR key
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 11:33 AM

Ragtime can be complex music, Norman. Can you read music? guitar tab?

I mentioned 'Solace' because a friend of mine is a piano teacher. The piano teachers chose 'Solace' as a competition piece for young (jr high and high school) students, so I thought it would be an accessible piece.

I downloaded the MIDI that I posted above and studied it. It has quite a bit of A minor in it, as well as other chords which are not minor. (As I said, ragtime music is complex.)

If I wanted to learn a rag, I would go to my public library and ask for musicians' fake books. These books have the melody line for a piece and the chords. Look for rags, then search the Internet for performances of those rags so you can hear how they sound.

Subject: RE: Ragtime in a MINOR key
From: Artful Codger
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 10:12 PM

Well, the fourth section of "Bethena" is in minor, at least. Also a brief passage in the third section and some minor/diminished chords in the arty section transitions.

Parts of "Euphonic Sounds" are also in minor.

Subject: RE: Ragtime in a MINOR key
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 09:36 AM

What about Scott Joplin's ragtime waltz "Bethena"?

Subject: RE: Ragtime in a MINOR key
From: Artful Codger
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 04:35 AM

Actually, though it may have a "minor" feel, it's effectively major straight through.

Subject: RE: Ragtime in a MINOR key
From: GUEST,Ken Brock
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 11:27 PM

I think that William Bolcom's "Graceful Ghost" is mostly minor.

Subject: RE: Ragtime in a MINOR key
From: The Vulgar Boatman
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 03:34 PM

Codger, you'se right - a senior moment for which I apologise. Now if I can just think of the title of the rag in a minor key on that album, I won't have to lay awake all bloody night until I remember it. Got it. Album was "The New Ragtime Guitar" and it was Temptation Rag. There's an mp3 download out there if you google it.

Subject: RE: Ragtime in a MINOR key
From: NormanD
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 08:19 AM

Here is the YouTube link for Rev Gary Davis playing "Italian Rag"

Thanks!

Subject: RE: Ragtime in a MINOR key
From: van lingle
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 06:34 PM

Italian Rag by Rev. Gary Davis is in Am, as I recall.

Subject: RE: Ragtime in a MINOR key
From: Artful Codger
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 06:12 PM

Ahem, "Ragtime Oriole" is a different piece from "Ragtime Nightingale", and is solely in major.

I've heard a number of piano rags rendered as guitar duets, or guitar/mandolin duets. Stephan Grossman has put out several albums of rags played on guitar, such as Yazoo Basin Boogie and Ragtime Cowboy Jew--I believe he's also published instructional books on the topic.

"The Sheik of Araby" was a very popular song, so I'm sure it's been arranged for guitar. And I fancy a good guitarist could do some justice to "At Midnight".

Much as I admire what people manage to do on the guitar, rags written for piano almost never sound half as good when performed any other way, short of a complete band. But let me plug one stellar exception: The Amherst Saxophone Quartet's album Eubie Blake: An American Classic; both "Charleston Rag" and "Chevy Chase" are included. If you don't feel elated listening to this album, you ain't human.

Subject: RE: Ragtime in a MINOR key
From: The Vulgar Boatman
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 01:36 PM

"Ragtime Oriole" was recorded by Dave Laibman and Eric Schoenberg - guitar duet.

Subject: RE: Ragtime in a MINOR key
From: NormanD
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 06:27 AM

Thank you muchly, Art Codge and others, for all these suggestions.

May I now ask - have (m)any of these been written or, ideally, recorded as guitar pieces? And if so, how available are they?

Thanks again

Subject: RE: Ragtime in a MINOR key
From: Artful Codger
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 05:59 AM

Here are some more which are predominantly in minor:

"Levee Revels" by William Christopher O'Hare, 1898
"Don't Mess With Me" (composer unknown)
"My Pet" by Zez Confrey, 1921
"Waltz Mirage" by Zez Confrey, 1927
"Afghanistan" by Wilander and Donnelly, 1920
"The Crave" by Jelly Roll Morton
"Texas Fox Trot" by David Guion, 1915

And some which have a first section in minor, but which then revert to major (except for returns to the first section):

"Charleston Rag (The Sounds of Africa)" by Eubie Blake, 1899
"Chevy Chase" by Eubie Blake, 1911
"Bohemia" by Joseph Lamb, 1919
"Pegasus" by James Scott, 1920
"Rag Sentimental" by James Scott, 1918
"Steeplechase Rag" by James P. Johnson
"The Sheik of Araby" by Smith, Wheeler, and Snyder, 1921

Finally, let me recommend a beautiful modern piece: "At Midnight" by Hal Isbitz, 1991 (thought this is perhaps more of a tango in the style of Ernesto Nazareth).

Subject: RE: Ragtime in a MINOR key
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 05:46 AM

Scott Joplin's MAGNETIC RAG This is a fun one. Quite different. Wait until the middle.

MIDI and SCORE

http://www.mutopiaproject.org/cgibin/piece-info.cgi?id=441

In the LEVY collection you will find Skeleton Rag

http://levysheetmusic.mse.jhu.edu/levy-cgi/datastream.cgi?id=154.135;type=pdf

I will need to search my collection for the composer and exact date it is not in LOC or Levy "Hysteria - A Rag" circa early 1910s - with a wild eyed female face on the cover.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Ragtime in a MINOR key
From: Artful Codger
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 04:02 AM

"Solace", despite the name, slow tempo and some deceptive diminished chords, is entirely in major.

Although the first section of "Ragtime Nightingale" begins in minor, it shifts to being primarily in major, and the remaining sections are entirely in major mode.

"Pork and Beans" (by Luckey Roberts, 1913) is a wild little rag that's mostly in minor, although the third section is major, and the fourth ends in major. It's the only classic rag that springs to mind at the moment as being (primarily) in minor, though I'm sure I used to play a few more.

Subject: RE: Ragtime in a MINOR key
From: evansakes
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 03:05 AM

'Hesitation Blues' by (I think) Blind Blake....or maybe Rev Gary Davis? is in a minor key (or part of it anyway).

I heard it by Ralph McTell...

Subject: RE: Ragtime in a MINOR key
From: Rowan
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 11:36 PM

Which, I forgot to mention, is in minor but is a quite different composition from that of Lasse Johansson, mentioned above by CLaire.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Ragtime in a MINOR key
From: Rowan
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 11:32 PM

If you click on the audio feed for any of the Late Night Live
programs from ABC Radio National (Oz) and listen to the theme tune you'll get Elena Kats-Chernin's "Russian Rag".

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Ragtime in a MINOR key
From: Nickhere
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 10:23 PM

Here's a nice rag, not in a minor key, sadly, and you can can't see the picking, but shouldn't be too hard to work out.

Blind Blake's rag

Subject: RE: Ragtime in a MINOR key
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 09:28 PM

solace

That's a link to a beautiful piece by Scott Joplin called 'Solace.' I think it's a good choice for a first ragtime piece.

Subject: RE: Ragtime in a MINOR key
From: Helen
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 04:40 PM

ClaireBear,

The Spanish one is called Romance d'Amour or Spanish Ballad. One of my favourites - simple but never boring, IMHO.

I have a book called Ragtime Rediscoveries which I picked up in the bargain sale at our local music shop. If you do a Google on the title you'll find a site which has all the midi files. I love them! I've been vainly attempting to learn the one called Dimples, on the piano for the last yonks and a half but I'm getting there.

I'll have a look at the key signatures and see if there are any in the minor keys.

Helen

Subject: RE: Ragtime in a MINOR key
From: Ian Burdon
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 04:08 PM

Try Joseph Lamb's "Ragtime Nightingale"

Subject: RE: Ragtime in a MINOR key
From: bald headed step child
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 02:37 PM

Here is a ragtime site that has alot of good midi's.

ragtime site

It is midi's made from the original sheet music and sheet music is also available there.

You might find something you like that you could convert to guitar.

Just remember to not get carried away trying to play it exact, just get the feel of the tune, or you will go completely insane.

Trust me on that. Oops, time for meds.;)

BHSC

Subject: RE: Ragtime in a MINOR key
From: NormanD
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 01:16 PM

Thank you both, so far. I'll check the links later. Please keep 'em coming!

Did John Fahey do anything?

Subject: RE: Ragtime in a MINOR key
From: ClaireBear
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 01:14 PM

Not a rag expert here, but I love a challenge.

My recollection is that you're right: Scott Joplin wrote in minor not so much. But if you stray from the North American continent for composers, you may have somewhat better luck.

I've been having fun YouTubing all morning on this theme; here are my results:

A familiar Spanish classical guitar piece (whose name I can't bring to mind) done ragtime style is at
this page.

And here is a medley of guitar rags, several in minor.

John Renbourn wrote a minorish rag piece called "Faro's Rag."

I loved this piece by Lasse Johansson, called "Russian Rag."

Finally, I imagine there are lots of klezmer compositions from the ragtime era that could be adapted as guitar rags, but I couldn't name any particular ones.

I hope that helps! Thanks for giving me a fun hour or so.

Claire

Subject: RE: Ragtime in a MINOR key
From: G-Force
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 11:36 AM

It's quite noticeable that Scott Joplin, for example, hardly ever wrote in the minor, and on the rare occasions he went into the minor he got out again as fast as possible.

Subject: Ragtime in a MINOR key
From: NormanD
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 11:23 AM

Are there any ragtime songs in a minor key that anyone could suggest, for guitar? Titles, performers, YouTubes and - possibly - chords (or at least the key) would be appreciated.

Thank you, pickers.

Norman